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First Six Trumpets

for_his_glory

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God has already given what is written that we prepare ourselves to know what is coming, but yet many reject His truth. If there were a pretrib rapture of the church then why would God just end all things at once after we are taken up. What would be the purpose of the seven trumpet and seven vial judgements. Below is what we need to expect to happen during the first six trumpets sounding that leads up to the son of perdition who takes his seat to deceive the world promising safety and provision as there will appear amazing signs and wonders that could deceive even the very elect of God if possible, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Matthew 24:24.

Rev Chapter 8-9 First six trumpets

Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky as the brimstone God brought down from heaven striking those in Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:24. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. I would only imagine the drifting smoke itself would cause respiratory problems for many people.

Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our well being will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.

This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.

These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed.

John saw in his vision a great star that is burning like a lamp that falls to earth. In John’s time torches were used as a light source so this star burning like a lamp or a torch could be that of a burning comet falling or a series of comets falling on earth. I can only think it to be many comets as they fall on the third part of rivers and streams as it poisons the third part of the earth’s fresh water supply and causes many to die from the bitter water they drink. This would also kill all fresh water fish leaving man without another food source.

This star is given a name called Wormwood because wormwood is a plant that can be potentially toxic in its pure form and has a bitter aroma to it. In large amounts, it can cause damage to the nervous system, resulting in convulsions, loss of muscle control, and sometimes death. Now we have a third part of the world without fresh water to drink.

With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.

Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.

Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.

This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
 
God has already given what is written that we prepare ourselves to know what is coming, but yet many reject His truth. If there were a pretrib rapture of the church then why would God just end all things at once after we are taken up. What would be the purpose of the seven trumpet and seven vial judgements.

We are told to watch for that blessed hope and the Lord coming to catch us up in the air. A trump shall sound, but not the same ones you see in the Revelation judgments.
And there is a pre-trib rapture of the saved, born again believers (although that word isn't used in the Bible, its just what we call it). Christ comes for his church, we get the Judgment seat (not to be confused with the Great White Throne) and celebrate the marriage supper of the Lamb, then return with Christ at the end of the tribulation (read Revelation 19 again).
What's the point of letting the anti-Christ have free reign during those 7 years? As I said in another post, that's about Israel. If you notice, the anti-Christ makes a deal with Israel, not with Christians or any other religion. In Matt 24:15-18 or so, Christ is warning those in Judea who worship the sabbath to flee to the mountains in those days. That's not for the Christian. And Daniel's vision of the 70 weeks, is all to do with the nation of Israel and their transgressions regarding idol worship.
Further, why do you think so many people speculate the two witnesses are going to be Moses and Elijah? Those are the all stars in the Jewish faith. Remember when Jesus and the boys are coming down from the mount after his Transfiguration and all the disciples can talk about is Moses and Elijah. It's all just speculation of course, it could be totally different, but it fits with the truth that God is dealing with Christ's body of believers differently than with the nation of Israel.
 
lisa-in-FL, can you please give me the scriptures that state a pretrib rapture?

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Revelation was given to John in visions as prophecies that had their beginnings in the Old Testament, being fulfilled in the New Testament and yet much to be fulfilled in future events before the great and terrible day of the Lords return.

Revelations is given to all nations and tongues that live throughout the whole world as in Jew and Gentile. Israel is mainly mentioned, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him. This is why our attention needs to be on those things that are happening in Israel especially Jerusalem as being Gods Holy City.

Revelations is full of symbolism that is literal where it needs to be and Spiritual where it needs to define that of the literal. These revelations are given as a warning to those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah. Gods chastisements are to draw those back to him in repentance before that door of salvation is closed forever when Jesus returns and Gods true Church is gathered up to be with the Father forever.

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.
 
I could but it won't convince you so let me try this.. in Daniel's vision it says THY people.. who is Daniel's people?
Daniel 9:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determinjed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Further.. make an end of sins.. reconciliation.. everlasting righteousness...
I don't know about you but that sounds an awful lot like what Jesus already accomplished on the Cross so for those who believe in his death and resurrection, why would we need to suffer the same tribulations appointed for those who don't believe.
I'm not saying the tribulation is just for Israel but it does center on them. And of course the Holy Spirit told John to copy everyone on the memo so to speak. Just because we know what happens doesn't mean we'll be here for it. We know about hell right? even though we aren't going there praise Jesus!
 
I could but it won't convince you so let me try this.. in Daniel's vision it says THY people.. who is Daniel's people?
Daniel 9:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determinjed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Further.. make an end of sins.. reconciliation.. everlasting righteousness...
I don't know about you but that sounds an awful lot like what Jesus already accomplished on the Cross so for those who believe in his death and resurrection, why would we need to suffer the same tribulations appointed for those who don't believe.
I'm not saying the tribulation is just for Israel but it does center on them. And of course the Holy Spirit told John to copy everyone on the memo so to speak. Just because we know what happens doesn't mean we'll be here for it. We know about hell right? even though we aren't going there praise Jesus!

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

There are no scriptures that speak of a pretrib rapture as when I was very young in the word I believed all this pretrib stuff that was being taught, but the more I studied those scriptures these teachers give for support I found nothing within them, especially their favorite in Rev 4:1,2. I thought maybe I was reading it wrong, but not, because there is nothing in those scriptures that even hint of a pretrib rapture.

Vs. 24-27 this is the angel Gabriel speaking to Daniel and thy people are Israel.

God's wrath during the first six trumpets is His final vengeance on sin in hopes that all would repent and turn back to Him, 2 Chronicles 7:14. God's wrath does not affect those who are indwelled and sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when Christ returns on the last day and sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him, Ephesians 1:13; Matthew 24:29-31; John 6:40.

During the six trumpets will be a time of a greater faith and patience for those who are in Christ and He in them as we continue to be about our Fathers business. God will not cut us off, but will continue to supply our need like He did during the exodus in the desert with Moses and the Israelites. Philippians 4:19 God will always make a way of provision for those who are His own. We just need to trust in the Lord and not be afraid, Psalms 27; Matthew 10:28.
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't "see" anything in the verses you site that say the church is going to be supernaturally protected from the 7 years of tribulation.
I also can't understand the logistics of how we'll be caught up with Christ in the clouds, in the twinkling of an eye and at the same time return with Christ at the end of the 7 years. Where does the marriage supper of the Lamb take place? When do we go before the judgment seat and receive our crowns to cast at his feet? The timeline doesn't make sense.
And no one will ever convince me that Christ the Bridegroom, would leave his Bride trapped on earth watching the horrors of the tribulation before he comes to our rescue?

I do agree with your last statement that we need to trust in the Lord and not be afraid. :)
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't "see" anything in the verses you site that say the church is going to be supernaturally protected from the 7 years of tribulation.

Oh, Sister, read it again! I don't want to give it away because it's just too good for that, but read (at least) chapters 7-12, keeping an eye out for this very thing ... see what God shows you
 
hello lisa-in-FL, dirtfarmer here

I agree with what you have stated. The body of believers, that is the "Church" also known as the body of Christ, will not be present during the 7 year period known as "tribulation". The marriage and the marriage feast will happen in heaven at that time.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 states in the phrase, " even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
 
hello lisa-in-FL, dirtfarmer here

I agree with what you have stated. The body of believers, that is the "Church" also known as the body of Christ, will not be present during the 7 year period known as "tribulation". The marriage and the marriage feast will happen in heaven at that time.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 states in the phrase, " even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."
Phew! Thanks Brother, I was starting to think I was the only one here that understood that truth. And great verse. Thank you!:wave2
 
Oh, Sister, read it again! I don't want to give it away because it's just too good for that, but read (at least) chapters 7-12, keeping an eye out for this very thing ... see what God shows you
I've been in a years long bible study - verse by verse on Revelation and heard great preaching on it and as complicated as that book is, it is a simple truth that Christ will return for the Church and we'll be celebrating in Heaven while the tribulation happens and we'll return with the Lord when he does. ("and so shall we ever be with the Lord" - we go where he goes)

Revelation - 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
1 Thess 4:16-17- 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If they are the same trumpets, why is one the trump of God and the others given to angels to sound?

And again, the timeline doesn't match up - Judgment seat of Christ, marriage feast . .all happens after the catching away of the church and before Christ's return to earth.
 
I've been in a years long bible study - verse by verse on Revelation and heard great preaching on it and as complicated as that book is, it is a simple truth that Christ will return for the Church and we'll be celebrating in Heaven while the tribulation happens and we'll return with the Lord when he does. ("and so shall we ever be with the Lord" - we go where he goes)

Revelation - 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
1 Thess 4:16-17- 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If they are the same trumpets, why is one the trump of God and the others given to angels to sound?

And again, the timeline doesn't match up - Judgment seat of Christ, marriage feast . .all happens after the catching away of the church and before Christ's return to earth.

There are people as educated as possible who can use Scripture to defend pre, mid, and post tribulation rapture. Please do not think this is simple, or cut and dried.

However

the only teaching on the matter by the Church for 1800 years is Christ returns a second time. Not a second, third etc time.
I think that ought to count for something. John's own understanding might be somewhat relevant here, and at least some of that is available to us as taught by his student's student.

What do you do with Rev 12:6? Just coincidence?
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't "see" anything in the verses you site that say the church is going to be supernaturally protected from the 7 years of tribulation.
I also can't understand the logistics of how we'll be caught up with Christ in the clouds, in the twinkling of an eye and at the same time return with Christ at the end of the 7 years. Where does the marriage supper of the Lamb take place? When do we go before the judgment seat and receive our crowns to cast at his feet? The timeline doesn't make sense.
And no one will ever convince me that Christ the Bridegroom, would leave his Bride trapped on earth watching the horrors of the tribulation before he comes to our rescue?

I do agree with your last statement that we need to trust in the Lord and not be afraid. :)

Please take your time to study the scriptures I give here.

A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a Great Tribulation. No one will know when, not even Jesus himself will know, Matthew 24:36, but scripture does give us signs to watch for. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. There is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through before the new heaven and new Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven, Matthew 24:36, 37; Deuteronomy 4:30; Matthew 24:21; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:17; Matthew 24:13.

It is so imperative to understand those Spiritual words of God so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns. Revelation, which means veil rolled away, starts with the seven churches that spiritually represent all Gods children as they are given the seven spirits of God to help keep them inline with the will of God. The seven spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and the Spirit of the Lord. Revelation chapter 4 is used in the false teachings of a pretrib rapture that teaches the saints of God will be out of here before a Great Tribulation occurs. This is a monstrous deception of Satan that will cause many to fall away from God as we will go through everything of Revelations including the seven seals of judgment, seven trumpets of judgment, the harvest judgment, the seven vials of judgment right up to and including the two final battles when judgment comes on all the inhabitants on the earth dead and alive.

God does not want us to fear those things which must come, but be prepared for those things which have to come. If we are truly indwelled and sealed by the Spirit of God through repentance and faith that is Christ Jesus then we need not fear what man can do to the flesh as we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. We have died to self and we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. We will be the witness of Christ to the world when the last of the abominations take place and our only concern needs to be of us being the witness to the nations that God has called us to be.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 12:1-6 vs. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
(The woman is Israel, all being Jew and Gentile that are Spiritually born again and indwelled and sealed with the Holy Spirit, Galatians 3:26-29)

Rev 19 The timing for the marriage supper of the Lamb is about to happen, but first Christ has to come in the clouds, Acts 1:11,to consume the beast and false prophet by the spirit of His mouth and the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:8.
 
hello lisa-in-FL, dirtfarmer here

I agree with what you have stated. The body of believers, that is the "Church" also known as the body of Christ, will not be present during the 7 year period known as "tribulation". The marriage and the marriage feast will happen in heaven at that time.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 states in the phrase, " even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

Yes, Jesus did deliver us from the wrath to come by that of His life, death and resurrection. Those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7, are also indwelled and seal by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, Ephesians 1:12-14, as to all who will endure until the end will be saved as our names are found written in the Lamb's Book of Life, Matthew 24:4-13, Revelation 20:15. Gods wrath will not affect those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit and trust in Christ as we are kept from God's indignation falling on us, Isaiah 26:20; Matthew 24:15-20; Rev 12:1-6. It will not be until Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet that we will be gathered to Him, Matthew 24:27-31; Rev 19:11-21.
 
Is this already happening? Florida's Red Tide

No, as the article is evidence of man being responsible for the Algae blooms of cyanobacteria and Karenia brevis originate from runoff containing human waste and fertilizers from nearby farms and ordinary neighborhoods, according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Nitrogen and phosphorus, as well as other nutrients in the polluted runoff, can act like fertilizer for the algae, creating large and long-lasting blooms. The dead animals in the water add to the severity of the algae bloom.
 
There are people as educated as possible who can use Scripture to defend pre, mid, and post tribulation rapture. Please do not think this is simple, or cut and dried.

However

the only teaching on the matter by the Church for 1800 years is Christ returns a second time. Not a second, third etc time.
I think that ought to count for something. John's own understanding might be somewhat relevant here, and at least some of that is available to us as taught by his student's student.

What do you do with Rev 12:6? Just coincidence?
Yes, he only returns one more time. The rapture isn't a return -he shouts and calls us up to meet him in the clouds.

Rev 12:6 - if you read that verse only and assume that "the woman" is the Church then yes, I can see how you would get that impression, but when you look at the facts like the 12 stars in her crown (12 tribes), the fact that in verse 5 she brings "forth a man child who was to rule all nations" and "her child was caught up unto God and to his throne" - that's Jesus. Looking at his human genealogy, he is of Jewish birth. The church didn't bring forth Christ. The nation of Israel did. And the church was never in the wilderness (verse 6), but Israel was and Jesus was for that matter.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, when Jesus says they need to flee to the wilderness in that day he's talking to those in Judea that honor the sabbath day - the Jewish people, not the Christians.

Sorry, dude. Not going to give in on this one. :)
Christ is coming for his Church and I can't wait!
 
Yes, Jesus did deliver us from the wrath to come by that of His life, death and resurrection. Those who are Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7, are also indwelled and seal by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, Ephesians 1:12-14, as to all who will endure until the end will be saved as our names are found written in the Lamb's Book of Life, Matthew 24:4-13, Revelation 20:15. Gods wrath will not affect those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit and trust in Christ as we are kept from God's indignation falling on us, Isaiah 26:20; Matthew 24:15-20; Rev 12:1-6. It will not be until Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet that we will be gathered to Him, Matthew 24:27-31; Rev 19:11-21.

hello for_his_glory, dirtfarmer here

In your zeal to be a witness for the Lord how can we reconcile "enduring until the end" with the saved are now citizen of heaven and are now the children of God. As I have stated before salvation is a 3 stage process.
1. We are saved from the power of sin.
2. We are saved from the penalty of sin.
3. We will be saved from the presence of sin.

If we have to endure until the end then you cannot have confidence that you are now a "child of God". Scripture tells us that those that are saved are children of God and have a heavenly citizenship, not a worldly citizenship. In Matthew 24:14 the gospel that is to be preached to all the world is the gospel of the kingdom. What we preach today and until the "Church" be taken out is the gospel of the grace of God.
 
if not careful endurance salvation can lead to work based salvation .how often we forget it is kept by the power of God
 
I've been in a years long bible study - verse by verse on Revelation and heard great preaching on it and as complicated as that book is, it is a simple truth that Christ will return for the Church and we'll be celebrating in Heaven while the tribulation happens and we'll return with the Lord when he does. ("and so shall we ever be with the Lord" - we go where he goes)

Revelation - 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
1 Thess 4:16-17- 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If they are the same trumpets, why is one the trump of God and the others given to angels to sound?

And again, the timeline doesn't match up - Judgment seat of Christ, marriage feast . .all happens after the catching away of the church and before Christ's return to earth.
With the sounding of which trump do you see the body of Christ being pulled out of the earth?
 
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