Bible Study Follow Christ's Example

[Squeakybro]

you said
You have turned the good news of Jesus into another law

I said
Have you read the Word of God? The new testament is a law, the law of Christ. It comes with commandments and laws and the whole shooting match.

Gal 6:2-3
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
(NKJ)

John 14:21
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
(NKJ)

John 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(NKJ)

John 14:15
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
(NKJ)

 

[Bob10]

Vice, welcome aboard from Canada !

For what it's worth, California now has a larger population than Canada.

************************************

"Love your neighbour as yourself." --Galatians 5: 13-14

"Love your neighbour as yourself." -- Leviticus 19: 18

Paul loved quoting his Bible, the OT.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
Bob,

You really should have quoted me in context. This is what I wrote:

You should read everything in Galatians. Paul emphasizes that we have been freed from observing the law (ANY law), and now our motives for any good deeds are based upon faith and love.

I said
Your just assuming any law. It takes a law to keep us out of heaven and it takes a law to get us into heaven.

Rom 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
(NKJ)

 

[Vice]

I said
Your just assuming any law. It takes a law to keep us out of heaven and it takes a law to get us into heaven.

Rom 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
(NKJ)

Context, context, context. What does the context of the passage you quoted speak about? Gentiles who don't know the law. People who will perish apart from the law.

So what LAW gets us into heaven?

Is it the 'law' from Luke 6:37-38 (which you quoted) that says we shouldn't judge, let we be judged?
Is it the 'law' from Galatians 6:2 (which you quoted) that says we should bear one another's burdens?
Which 'law' is it?

From the viewpoint of Paul's epistles to the Romans and the Galatians, we have been freed from the law, and we now live under grace. We observe the commandments of Jesus out of love and faith, to deepen our spiritual walk, to continue in the process of sanctification, but our salvation is not contingent upon observing them. I don't get into heaven by "following Christ's law (as you might put it);" I get in by faith and trust in Jesus.



"For we maintain that a man is justified BY FAITH apart from observing the law." --Rom 3:23

"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." --Rom 4:4-5



From your standpoint, however, there is a major problem. According to you, a person "gets into heaven" by observing the law of Christ. First, what exactly is the "law of Christ?" And second, how do you explain "getting into heaven by observing the law of Christ" in light of Romans and Galatians? You completely dismissed the verses from Galatians that I quoted to you, and you spewed off a number of Bible quotes, some of which seemed (at least to me) to be completely unrelated. I don't think you have to answer to me, but you certainly have to answer to the Apostle Paul.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
So what LAW gets us into heaven?

I said
The law of Christ.

Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
(NKJ)

The law of Faith.

Rom 3:27
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
(NKJ)

There are many laws in the new testament. The new testament is a law.

 

[Vice]

I haven't been on the board for a while, and look...I'll bet SB thinks he got the last word in.

Picking up on where we last left off...what law gets us into heaven? You have quoted a few verses that speak of a "law of Christ" and a "law of faith," but where does it speak of these "laws" getting us into heaven?

I have quoted numerous passages from the Bible demonstrating that no law gets us into heaven. I have used the Apostle Paul's own classic quotes from Romans and Galatians to demonstrate that there is no deed that we can accomplish that can win our salvation. Paul himself has stated that Christ "has set us free."

I can even explain your "laws" through Paul's Gospel viewpoint. The word for "law" is nomos (def: law, principle, commandment) is used in both those cases you pointed out. In Galatians 6:2, it most likely referred to one of Christ's commandments to love one another. In Romans 3:27, it refers to "a law of faith" (not THE law of faith; there is no definite article) or something that is apart from any other laws.

Neither of the verses you quoted contradicts what Paul has spoken about in either Galatians or Romans. Within the context of both books, Paul's meaning is very clear; there is no LAW by which we are saved because Jesus has redeemed us from the law.

You, on the other hand, have completely ignored the verses I quoted, and the Bible books that I have recommended for you to read. In effect, you have countered my "the law doesn't save us" arguments with "there's a law of Christ and a law of faith."

So now I ask you: where does Paul stipulate that either this "law of Christ" or this "law of faith" is crucial to our salvation? Where does it stipulate that a new law has taken over the old one, and that we must now strive to accomplish and fulfil it in order to be saved? And equally as important, how do YOU personally deal with verses that speak about our spiritual freedom in Christ, like the ones below?


"For we maintain that a man is justified BY FAITH apart from observing the law." --Rom 3:23

"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." --Rom 4:4-5


If there's one thing I've learned throughout the years, it's that you can't quote a Bible verse to oppose a Bible verse; if you do so, you're just trying to contradict the Bible with the Bible. You have continually done this, and unless you adhere to the belief that the Bible contradicts itself, you have plenty of explaining to do with the verses I have quoted.

 

[Squeakybro]

You have got your laws and your works all mixed up. The old testament is the law of sin and death. The new testament is the law of Christ. There are works like in a job. There are works as in spiritual works. But when it says to work out your own salvation it means just that.

Phil 2:12
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
(NKJ)

Ofcourse maybe you dont have the gift of discernment.

 

[Vice]

You have got your laws and your works all mixed up. The old testament is the law of sin and death. The new testament is the law of Christ. There are works like in a job. There are works as in spiritual works. But when it says to work out your own salvation it means just that.

Phil 2:12
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
(NKJ)

Ofcourse maybe you dont have the gift of discernment.

How many times do I have to say it? CONTEXT!

Let's continue on with the verse you just quoted:

"...for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." -- Phil 2:11

Hmmm. So let's see. According to SB, I should work out my own salvation. BUT...according to the Apostle Paul, I should work out my own salvation because God is already working in me to will and act according to his purpose. So God is already "prodding" me on in his salvation. Hmmm. Sounds right in line with Galatians 5:25: "Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit." ...which, of course, falls under that entire idea of our freedom in Christ.

Of course, maybe you don't have the gift of reading and comprehension.

 

[Squeakybro]

you said
How many times do I have to say it? CONTEXT!

I said
Well if you want to stay in the milk you should keep it in the milk context. But there are those who want to go into the meat and follow the Holy Spirit.

Heb 5:13-6:3
13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

CHAPTER 6

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do if God permits.
(NKJ)