For many will come in my Name, saying, 'I am the Christ'

[Alfred Persson]

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
5 "For many will come in My name, saying,`I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
6 "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Matt. 24:3-6 NKJ)


"And" in verse 6 connects "wars and rumors of wars" with "many will come in my name". That might imply the two happen nearly simultaneously. Throughout history many claimed to be Christ, even today at least five worldwide and one in Israel:

5 False 'Messiahs' and Why Their Claims to Be Christ Contradict the Bible

Australian Alan John Miller, Miami-based Jos Luis de Jes s Miranda, Brazilian-born Inri Cristo, Russia s Sergey Anatolyevitch Torop and Wayne Bent, who is currently imprisoned in New Mexico these are ...

www.christianpost.com

https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-wont-hear-man-claiming-to-be-messiah/

Context (Christ speaks to His disciples in Jerusalem and the abomination that causes desolation will rise in Israel to be seen) implies the "many false Christs" that indicate the "end is near" are those that rise up in Israel, not anywhere else in the world.

A miracle worker may begin elsewhere (there are hints near ancient Antioch in Turkey), but he will have to immigrate to Israel to appear in Jerusalem doing his miracles. No other city will do.

What say you?

_________________
This song has nothing to do with the above, I love the sound of her voice, it reminds me how great is our God who can create such beauty:

 

[miamited]

Hi Alfred Persson

Yes, and according to your link some are already here.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hi Alfred Persson

Yes, and according to your link some are already here.

God bless,
Ted

True, but they are pathetic, many aren't being deceived by them, only a paltry few. They don't fulfill the prophecy.

 

[miamited]

True, but they are pathetic, many aren't being deceived by them, only a paltry few. They don't fulfill the prophecy.

Hi Alfred Persson

Well, that's all going to depend on whether what you think of as many is the same as what Jesus thinks as many. And it seems that this inexhaustive list only deals with the last 75 or so years of false teachers upon the earth. What about Muhammed in 600 BC? Would he not be a false christ? And his ministry has deceived millions upon millions. How about Gandhi or Buddha. I mean they didn't call themselves Jesus, but when we understand that the Greek word from which we get the word 'Christ' merely means anointed one. I think that Ghandi, Buddha, Hare Krishna and Muhammed did consider themselves to be anointed in some way over a body of people. I see your list also doesn't include Jim Jones. Another who thought of himself as anointed by God.

So, I'm not categorically saying that this is pretty much wrong in its theological truth, but it's sketch to me.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Alfred Persson]

Hi Alfred Persson

Well, that's all going to depend on whether what you think of as many is the same as what Jesus thinks as many. And it seems that this inexhaustive list only deals with the last 75 or so years of false teachers upon the earth. What about Muhammed in 600 BC? Would he not be a false christ? And his ministry has deceived millions upon millions. How about Gandhi or Buddha. I mean they didn't call themselves Jesus, but when we understand that the Greek word from which we get the word 'Christ' merely means anointed one. I think that Ghandi, Buddha, Hare Krishna and Muhammed did consider themselves to be anointed in some way over a body of people. I see your list also doesn't include Jim Jones. Another who thought of himself as anointed by God.

So, I'm not categorically saying that this is pretty much wrong in its theological truth, but it's sketch to me.

God bless,
Ted

Great examples of past false Christ's, far better deceivers than seen in modern times.

But I was connecting the dots, the recent wars and rumors of wars happening now. Talk of WWIII is everywhere. The connective "and" in verse 6 implies the deceivers Christ had in mind, appear only in the end time, just before His coming as part of the signs He is near.

Latest rumors of war:

 

[miamited]

Great examples of past false Christ's, far better deceivers than seen in modern times.

But I was connecting the dots, the recent wars and rumors of wars happening now. Talk of WWIII is everywhere. The connective "and" in verse 6 implies the deceivers Christ had in mind, appear only in the end time, just before His coming as part of the signs He is near.

Latest rumors of war:

Could be.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The events in the Olivet discourse are parallel to Daniel chapter 11 starting at Daniel 11:31 when the man of sins armed forces appear in Israel.
Then the persecution of the saints in Israel begins in Daniel 11:33-35.
Then the war begins in Daniel 11:40.
The great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is mentioned in daniel.12:1 and the resurection takes place in Daniel 12:2.

 

[Alfred Persson]

The events in the Olivet discourse are parallel to Daniel chapter 11 starting at Daniel 11:31 when the man of sins armed forces appear in Israel.
Then the persecution of the saints in Israel begins in Daniel 11:33-35.
Then the war begins in Daniel 11:40.
The great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is mentioned in daniel.12:1 and the resurection takes place in Daniel 12:2.

Christ connects these events, saying elsewhere they happen within "This [=one] generation" (Lk. 21:32). That rules out past false prophets like Muhammed or Simon Bar Kokhba, as all these events seem to occur "one generation".

 

[Rondmon]

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
5 "For many will come in My name, saying,`I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.
6 "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Matt. 24:3-6 NKJ)


"And" in verse 6 connects "wars and rumors of wars" with "many will come in my name". That might imply the two happen nearly simultaneously. Throughout history many claimed to be Christ, even today at least five worldwide and one in Israel:

Most everyone misunderstands Matt. 24:4-13, they get vs. 14. but not really.

Verses 4-13 is SPECIFICALLY unto the Disciples and it was a survival guide for them and the early church. It has nothing to do with end time events "WHOPPER RIGHT?" No, verses 7 and 8 are only Jesus demonstrating why vs. 6 is not the end (70th week) but can only be later on as verse 6 says. He wants to emphasize his vs. 6 statement, so he mentions all the things that must happen before the end, so if the Disciples do nit see all this by 70 AD this false christ can not be Jesus come again. This was important, because if the disciples had come back to Jerusalem thinking Jesus was come again, the early church followers would have no doubt followed them, and Rome would have wiped them out. Jesus could nor have that, of course, so in vs. 14 Jesus gives the disciples a fool proof way of understanding they will never see Jesus' 2nd coming themselves. Th Gospel had to be preached unto all the world before Jesus could return, thus they knew in their lifetimes they would never reach China, India and the Scythians (modern day Russia) so they could not be tricked by the 66-70 AD wars.

So, verses 4-6 are only about the 70 AD events. Jesus tells them, the end is not yet or IT IS NOT ME RETURING !! Them he demonstrates the many things that have to happen before the end or 70th week can come, there will be Kingdom vs. Kingdom (well, that could not happen in 70 AD nor in 200 AD because Rome would not allow inter-kingdom/Nation battles, they were "The Kingdom". Ethos vs. Ethos or clan vs clan (Same as above see Rome) Earthquakes that get worse and worse, famine that gets worse and worse, disease (see Black Plague and COVID 19 etc. etc.) So, verses 7-8 is not even what this chapter is about Jesus is just proving what he stated in verse 6, the end will be LATER ON, the end is NOT YET. Then Jesus goes right back to discussing the Disciples lives in verses 9-13.

Jesus tells then false prophets will cause their families to betray them, well this was the Zeus and Jupiter types, they cried to Rome because Christianity was rising with their constituents, taking away their patrons, an Rome eventually tarted killing Christian en-mass, but firstly they killed all of the Disciples, save for John. Jesus foretold them their fate so they would ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of their lives] unlike Judas. Its not end time stuff, its 1st century stuff. Finally in vs. 14 Jesus gives them a fool proof understanding of when the rapture happens and when the 70th week starts. So, they knew 100 % that the 70 AD events with the false christs the Pharisees put forth, could not be Jesus 2nd coming.

Starting in vs. 15 we get the 70th week.

 

[for_his_glory]

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times from each of the four Empires who follow false gods. There have always been wars and rumor of wars and false Christ throughout history. What we need to be prepared for is when the son of perdition takes his literal seat in Jerusalem claiming he is Christ by showing false signs and wonders that could deceive the very elect of God if possible as this will be the greatest falling away from truth as those who are deceived believing he is Christ will take the mark of this beast sealing their fate of damnation forever.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Most everyone misunderstands Matt. 24:4-13, they get vs. 14. but not really.

Verses 4-13 is SPECIFICALLY unto the Disciples and it was a survival guide for them and the early church. It has nothing to do with end time events "WHOPPER RIGHT?" No, verses 7 and 8 are only Jesus demonstrating why vs. 6 is not the end (70th week) but can only be later on as verse 6 says. He wants to emphasize his vs. 6 statement, so he mentions all the things that must happen before the end, so if the Disciples do nit see all this by 70 AD this false christ can not be Jesus come again. This was important, because if the disciples had come back to Jerusalem thinking Jesus was come again, the early church followers would have no doubt followed them, and Rome would have wiped them out. Jesus could nor have that, of course, so in vs. 14 Jesus gives the disciples a fool proof way of understanding they will never see Jesus' 2nd coming themselves. Th Gospel had to be preached unto all the world before Jesus could return, thus they knew in their lifetimes they would never reach China, India and the Scythians (modern day Russia) so they could not be tricked by the 66-70 AD wars.

So, verses 4-6 are only about the 70 AD events. Jesus tells them, the end is not yet or IT IS NOT ME RETURING !! Them he demonstrates the many things that have to happen before the end or 70th week can come, there will be Kingdom vs. Kingdom (well, that could not happen in 70 AD nor in 200 AD because Rome would not allow inter-kingdom/Nation battles, they were "The Kingdom". Ethos vs. Ethos or clan vs clan (Same as above see Rome) Earthquakes that get worse and worse, famine that gets worse and worse, disease (see Black Plague and COVID 19 etc. etc.) So, verses 7-8 is not even what this chapter is about Jesus is just proving what he stated in verse 6, the end will be LATER ON, the end is NOT YET. Then Jesus goes right back to discussing the Disciples lives in verses 9-13.

Jesus tells then false prophets will cause their families to betray them, well this was the Zeus and Jupiter types, they cried to Rome because Christianity was rising with their constituents, taking away their patrons, an Rome eventually tarted killing Christian en-mass, but firstly they killed all of the Disciples, save for John. Jesus foretold them their fate so they would ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of their lives] unlike Judas. Its not end time stuff, its 1st century stuff. Finally in vs. 14 Jesus gives them a fool proof understanding of when the rapture happens and when the 70th week starts. So, they knew 100 % that the 70 AD events with the false christs the Pharisees put forth, could not be Jesus 2nd coming.

Starting in vs. 15 we get the 70th week.

"Special pleading" fallacy tarnishes your exegesis. There is no transition from speaking "specifically unto the disciples" in the 1st century to "end-time disciples" in verse 15 "therefore when you see the abomination..."

Most therefore interpret this prophecy is spoken to all of Christ's disciples, those alive then in the 1st century and now in the End Times.

Therefore, I consider your exegesis "partly right" in that Jesus is warning there is a delay between the start of false Christs and rumors of wars, and the big event. But I don't believe its thousands of years. Rather, there is dual fulfillment in the entire chapter, events that occur the 1st century but also parallel events in the end time.

Like the flight from Jerusalem when the Zealot armies surrounded it. That gave everyone time to flee. Once the Roman Armies came, they laid siege to Jerusalem and no one could escape. So people had to drop what they were doing and flee immediately just before 70 AD.

20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24 "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:20-24 NKJ)

That flight from Judea likely occurs also in the end time when Adonikam (the Antichrist, pretending to be Christ) Chancellor of the Revived "Grecian" Roman Empire, sends his army to surround ("protect") Jerusalem from attack.

All believers in Judea, recognizing he is the Deceiver who came in Christ's Name, will flee Judea then also.

 

[Rondmon]

"Special pleading" fallacy tarnishes your exegesis. There is no transition from speaking "specifically unto the disciples" to "future disciples" in verse 15 "therefore when you see the abomination..." Christians therefore read these words as spoken to all Christ's disciples, those alive then and now.

Well, I never state Jesus speaks to FUTURE DISCIPLES in vs. 15, that came from you, how can men born some 2000 odd years in the future be Discipled by Jesus? Makes no sense, and I always try to make sense, so its not something I put forth.

Now, Jesus was speaking unto a targeted group, but none were his disciples. He was speaking unto the 1/3 (Zech. 13:8-9) Jews who repent, or 5 or so million Jews, he warns them when they see the AoD to flee Judea unto the mountains in Central and Southern Jordan (The Petra and Bozrah area)

No............Christians can not read t properly that way, the Disciples die in verses 9-13. Then we see the End Time Rapture in vs. 14, so vs. will see no Church, save the Remnant Gentile Church seen in Rev. 12:16-17. Jesus came only unto the Jews, so everything he puts forth is unto the Jew first. So, Jesus is speaking in verses 15-31 unto End Time Jews who have repented. The Two-witnesses like Jesus comes ONLY unto the Jews, read Rev. 11:1-3 thats hat is says if one knows how to interpret the bible.

Therefore, I consider your exegesis "partly right" in that Jesus is warning there is a delay between the start of false Christs and rumors of wars, and the big event. But I don't believe its thousands of years. Rather, there is dual fulfillment in the entire chapter, events that occur both before 70 AD and the end time, and some only in the first century but still parallel events in the end time. Like the flight from Jerusalem when the Zealot armies surrounded it. That gave everyone time to flee. Once the Roman Armies came, they laid siege to Jerusalem and no one could escape. So people had to drop what they were doing and flee immediately.

That likely occurs in the end times also when the Antichrist, pretending to be Christ sets himself up in Jerusalem.

I will not argue that dual fulfillment doesn't happen all the time, just not here. If Israel had accepted Christ, Jesus would have shown up in 70 AD, but God knew they would reject Jesus. That is why Jesus defends John the Baptist, he is not calling him Elijah, SO MANY PEOPLE get that wrong. He is merely saying John is not lesser than any man born to a women, John di everything Elijah will do, but Israel still would not repent, so God put off the 70th week. By the way, if Israel would have been going to accept Jesus 2000 years ago, Elijah would have been sent back then to fulfill Malachi 4:5-6.

The problem is soooooo many people see Matt. 24:7-8 is END TIME EVENTS, even the 70th week and I have seen major preachers who say Matt. 24:7-8 matches the Seals (the seals are not Judgments anyway) in Rev. 6. In truth verses 7-8 has very little to do with Matt. 24:4-13, its all about the Disciples 1st Century journey and church building. Verses 4-6 are about 70 AD events. Verses 9-13 is about the Disciples coming deaths. Verse 14 is about when the Rapture come, which is what lets the Disciples know 100 percent they will never see the 2nd coming. After vs. 14 Jesus starts talking about the 70th week, to the Jews living at that time, not Disciples. All Three false christs.........false prophets and then in vs. 24 The A.C. and F.P. All three are different vents.

Its so hard to move off old positions, I get it, but I love being told, Ron, you're wrong. Tht way I know I am about tom get some big time truths from the holy spirit.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Well, I never state Jesus speaks to FUTURE DISCIPLES in vs. 15, that came from you, how can men born some 2000 odd years in the future be Discipled by Jesus? Makes no sense, and I always try to make sense, so its not something I put forth.

Now, Jesus was speaking unto a targeted group, but none were his disciples. He was speaking unto the 1/3 (Zech. 13:8-9) Jews who repent, or 5 or so million Jews, he warns them when they see the AoD to flee Judea unto the mountains in Central and Southern Jordan (The Petra and Bozrah area)

No............Christians can not read t properly that way, the Disciples die in verses 9-13. Then we see the End Time Rapture in vs. 14, so vs. will see no Church, save the Remnant Gentile Church seen in Rev. 12:16-17. Jesus came only unto the Jews, so everything he puts forth is unto the Jew first. So, Jesus is speaking in verses 15-31 unto End Time Jews who have repented. The Two-witnesses like Jesus comes ONLY unto the Jews, read Rev. 11:1-3 thats hat is says if one knows how to interpret the bible.


I will not argue that dual fulfillment doesn't happen all the time, just not here. If Israel had accepted Christ, Jesus would have shown up in 70 AD, but God knew they would reject Jesus. That is why Jesus defends John the Baptist, he is not calling him Elijah, SO MANY PEOPLE get that wrong. He is merely saying John is not lesser than any man born to a women, John di everything Elijah will do, but Israel still would not repent, so God put off the 70th week. By the way, if Israel would have been going to accept Jesus 2000 years ago, Elijah would have been sent back then to fulfill Malachi 4:5-6.

The problem is soooooo many people see Matt. 24:7-8 is END TIME EVENTS, even the 70th week and I have seen major preachers who say Matt. 24:7-8 matches the Seals (the seals are not Judgments anyway) in Rev. 6. In truth verses 7-8 has very little to do with Matt. 24:4-13, its all about the Disciples 1st Century journey and church building. Verses 4-6 are about 70 AD events. Verses 9-13 is about the Disciples coming deaths. Verse 14 is about when the Rapture come, which is what lets the Disciples know 100 percent they will never see the 2nd coming. After vs. 14 Jesus starts talking about the 70th week, to the Jews living at that time, not Disciples. All Three false christs.........false prophets and then in vs. 24 The A.C. and F.P. All three are different vents.

Its so hard to move off old positions, I get it, but I love being told, Ron, you're wrong. Tht way I know I am about tom get some big time truths from the holy spirit.

Later I will discuss your other points, but its special pleading to say verses 4-6 were specifically to the disciples in the 1st century, but "YOU will see" concerns end time events, which requires Christ isn't still talking to the same "specific disciples". Your exegesis assumes a change in disciples, but didn't prove there was. Preterists would gladly agree with your first premise, but they are consistent (unlike you) saying all the events happened in the 1st century.

15 "Therefore when you see the`abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place " (whoever reads, let him understand), (Matt. 24:15 NKJ)

But Scripture is supernatural, written by God through men. Therefore, when this prophecy was written down: "whoever reads, let him understand" was spoken by Christ, becoming scripture.

Its possible He said this when speaking to the Disciples, but to me that is irrelevant and immaterial. God wrote Matthew, so if Christ added this caution when the autographs were written, it remains scripture.

Christ said it so the reader (meaning us in the end time) would distinguish the "abomination" Antiochus did from that of the Antichrist in the end time. These are different, and that is indicated by the difference in the Hebrew of Daniel to a careful reader.

The Desolator is the Abomination of Desolation | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

The Abomination of Desolation: But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, [1] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not[2], (let him that readeth understand,) [3] then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: (Mar 13:14 KJV) Our translations obscure the...

endtimenews.net

Just as images bear the name of the gods they represent, so the Artificial Intelligence patterned with the personality of the Beast and neuro-networked with him, so its "one with him", is called "the Beast". But the "image" is different than any other abomination image in history. This one talks and can kill:

He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. (Rev. 13:15 NKJ)


How do I know this is a shape of the future internet. Its the Nations who were deceived into building it, not just one country:

And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. (Rev. 13:14 NKJ)


In real time, every connected device "will rat us out", reporting everything we say and do to the Antichrist. With AI he can filter out anything irrelevant. And perhaps from these connected devices, kill. Or send SWAT to kill us, pronto.

But I lack the time to fully comment on your reply. I'll do that later.

peace


I enjoyed it by the way, this is a great discussion.

 

[Rondmon]

Later I will discuss your other points, but its special pleading to say verses 4-6 were specifically to the disciples in the 1st century, but "YOU will see" concerns end time events, which requires Christ isn't still talking to the same "specific disciples". Your exegesis assumes a change in disciples, but didn't prove there was. Preterists would gladly agree with your first premise, but they are consistent (unlike you) saying all the events happened in the 1st century.

No, as I explained, verses 4-13 were all about the Disciples as in YE........YE......YE Disciples. Then Jesus talks about the 70th week in a general sense to those end tie Jews.

Matt. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

{{{So, Jesus tells his disciples the Temple will be destroyed, and the Disciples FIRST QUESTION is when will "These Things Be?" so the first answer is seen in verses 4-6. Take heed thy no one trick you into thinking I have returned, YE (Disciples) shall hear of wars and rumors of wars (In Jerusalem in 70 AD because the TEMPLE is going to be DESTROYED !! That is why Jesus says the END IS NOT YET.....its not me come again, even though 70 AD looks just like Zech. 14:1-4.
Verses 7-8 describes why vs. 6 or the 70 AD Temples Destruction events can not be Jesus come again. It list Birth Pang events that must take place just before Jesus' Rapture event. So, by looking at those things closely, the Disciples knew 70 AD could not be Jesus come again}}}



7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.m 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

{{{ Merely describing why 70 AD can not be the 70th week events and/or Jesus' Return.}}}

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you(Disciples) and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets(The Zeus and Jupiter TYPES) shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Everything after this is the 70th week events.

P.S. I am consistent with how it happened, you did nit expect Jesus to not explain the 70 AD events first did you? Their first question was "When will these things be?" or happen. That is why verses 4-6 is about 70 AD, verses 9-13 is about the Disciples deaths, then vs 14 is about the pre 70th week rapture.

Everything after that is of course about a DIFFERENT TYPE Question, right? What shall be the sign of your coming? and the end of the world [as it is now known]. So, of course Jesus answers that with 70th week events from verses 15-31.

Its possible He said this when speaking to the Disciples, but to me that is irrelevant and immaterial. God wrote Matthew, so if Christ added this caution when the autographs were written, it remains scripture.

Christ said it so the reader (meaning us in the end time) would distinguish the "abomination" Antiochus did from that of the Antichrist in the end time. These are different, and that is indicated by the difference in the Hebrew of Daniel to a careful reader.

Verses 4-13 was about the Disciples, if they came rushing back in 70 AD with the Churches from afar with them, the early church could have been wiped out. Everything past vs. 15 is END TIME EVENTS. So, yes, to the reader means end time readers.

In real time, every connected device "will rat us out", reporting everything we say and do to the Antichrist. With AI he can filter out anything irrelevant. And perhaps from these connected devices, kill. Or send SWAT to kill us, pronto.

You have to keep those verses in the end times else your thesis on data etc. will not fit. But, never try to force something to fit. The Church is not here anyway.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No, as I explained, verses 4-13 were all about the Disciples as in YE........YE......YE Disciples. Then Jesus talks about the 70th week in a general sense to those end tie Jews.

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) (Matt. 24:15 KJV)

Its the same "YE" in verse 15, but then you say the audience is end time Jews. The exegesis is flawed, predicated upon equivocation fallacy. "YE" is addressing the same "specific disciples" in verses 4-6.

Which you deny.

But most interpreters understand Christ is talking to ALL His disciples, whether in His audience then, or alive in the End time.

Corroboratiing this are the parenthetical words "(whoso readeth, let him understand)" which is clearly addressed to disciples NOT then present, who would be reading the gospels that were written down.

As I said, its Christ who spoke these words. Therefore, Christ defines who the "YE" are, those present at the time and those alive after the Bible was written.

 

[Alfred Persson]

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times from each of the four Empires who follow false gods. There have always been wars and rumor of wars and false Christ throughout history. What we need to be prepared for is when the son of perdition takes his literal seat in Jerusalem claiming he is Christ by showing false signs and wonders that could deceive the very elect of God if possible as this will be the greatest falling away from truth as those who are deceived believing he is Christ will take the mark of this beast sealing their fate of damnation forever.

It just occurred to me, although I disagree with your exegesis, it would be a lot stronger if you focused on the parenthetical material in verse 15 as proving it applies to disciples who would be alive in later generations, who would read what Christ said, rather than heard it as He spoke:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) (Matt. 24:15 KJV)

 

[for_his_glory]

It just occurred to me, although I disagree with your exegesis, it would be a lot stronger if you focused on the parenthetical material in verse 15 as proving it applies to disciples who would be alive in later generations, who would read what Christ said, rather than heard it as He spoke:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) (Matt. 24:15 KJV)

I did focus, but I'm sorry if you can not see Matthew 24:15 is speaking about the coming of the son of perdition in which this verse speaks about being the abomination of desolation that is yet future that Daniel prophesied of this event before Christ returns.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I did focus, but I'm sorry if you can not see Matthew 24:15 is speaking about the coming of the son of perdition in which this verse speaks about being the abomination of desolation that is yet future that Daniel prophesied of this event before Christ returns.

I apologize, I meant to post that to Rondmon. I agree with your interpretation 100% on that specific text.

 

[Alfred Persson]

...Now, Jesus was speaking unto a targeted group, but none were his disciples. He was speaking unto the 1/3 (Zech. 13:8-9) Jews who repent, or 5 or so million Jews, he warns them when they see the AoD to flee Judea unto the mountains in Central and Southern Jordan (The Petra and Bozrah area)

No............Christians can not read t properly that way, the Disciples die in verses 9-13. Then we see the End Time Rapture in vs. 14, so vs. will see no Church, save the Remnant Gentile Church seen in Rev. 12:16-17. Jesus came only unto the Jews, so everything he puts forth is unto the Jew first. So, Jesus is speaking in verses 15-31 unto End Time Jews who have repented. The Two-witnesses like Jesus comes ONLY unto the Jews, read Rev. 11:1-3 thats hat is says if one knows how to interpret the bible.

Reading Zechariah into this context, applying it to end time Jews and not all of Christ's disciples, is eisegesis. "The End" in verse 14 is the end of this age when Jesus and His angels enter triumphantly into Jerusalem, after defeating the Beast and his armies at Armageddon.

A dispensationalist would likely agree with some of your premises, but not me. When Christ says 'whosoever reads' let them understand that includes the Gentile Disciples of Christ.

Just like "Whosoever believes shall be saved", it is not to the Jews only or Zechariah's 1/3.

 

[Rondmon]

Reading Zechariah into this context, applying it to end time Jews and not all of Christ's disciples, is eisegesis. "The End" in verse 14 is the end of this age when Jesus and His angels enter triumphantly into Jerusalem, after defeating the Beast and his armies at Armageddon.

No, the END is the 70th week, the Church was not here for the other 69 weeks and we will not be here for the 70th eek either. Most people really do not understand Rom. 11 where it talks about the Fulness of the Gentiles coming in. Many think it means Gentile rule, but that is not what it means, its speaking of the Gentiles mantle which is a CALLING to take the Gospel unto the whole world. This can be proven by reading Romans chapters 9-11 in full.

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part(the Nation is blinded not Individuals) is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Here is what this says, "Hey Romans, do not think you are better than or chosen over Israel, (do not be conceited) because BLINDNESS IN PART (meaning Israel as a nation is blinded, not individual Jews because God calls ALL MEN, but not Israel because Israel was about to be disbanded the world over) has come unto Israel, "UNTIL" the Fulness of the Gentiles is come.

Well, what does that mean? Most wrongly think it means Gentile rule, but that is not it, the Gentiles were stronger for all 6000 years on this earth. Here Paul is saying until the Gentiles CALLING to take the Gospel unto the whole world has come to an end, Israel will remain Blinded as a Nation. (I know, people will say, but, but, but, BUT.......that just your theory) No, me being a man called by God unto prophetic understandings, do not just start guessing on things, I can prove it. Read Romans 9, look very carefully, Paul is saying over and over that God chooses whom He so wills.

Paul starts out to the Romans how he wishes he was cursed so his fellow brothers could see. Then he tells about how Rebeca conceived and it was told the Elder shall serve the Younger, so before they were even born God chose Jacob over Esau, he then says God raised up Pharaoh and hardened hos heart, therefore God has mercy on whom He wills and hardens whom He wills. Paul speaks of God as the Potter and says the Potter can chose to make whatsoever vessel He wills. See where Paul is going here? So, after Romans 10 goes through some of the same stuff, in Romans 11 Paul starts out has God cast away Israel, God forbid, then he says Israel will be grafted back into the Olive Tree when they rid themselves of unbelief. That is when Paul drops the bombshell verse 25 I posted above.

So, what is the Fulness of the Gentiles in this context? Well, as Romans 9 shows us, every reference was unto God CHOOSING whom He will, thus Israel will be blinded unto those God has CHOSEN (Gentile Church) to take the Gospel to the ends of the earths mission has been completed, the Time of the Gentiles CALLING which replaced Israel fire a time, Israel's calling was different, to birth the Messiah and to rule with Jesus in the Kingdom Age. Could you see Jews taking the Gospel unto the WHOLE WORLD for 2000 years? God foreknew it had to be Gentiles to Gentiles. God so choses whom He wills when He wills.

The END is the 70th week penance of Israel. Once they join the E.U. God's Wrath is rekindled. The pre 70th week rapture happens and the 70th week starts.

A dispensationalist would likely agree with some of your premises, but not me. When Christ says 'whosoever reads' let them understand that includes the Gentile Disciples of Christ.

No, because God fore knew they would be dead. And forewarned them they would be Martyrs also.

Just like "Whosoever believes shall be saved", it is not to the Jews only or Zechariah's 1/3.

God called Paul after his death to go to the Gentiles. He would nit even let the 70 he sent out to go unto the Gentiles.