For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and..?

[mutzrein]

It sounds like nonsense to me. There is no way to know God short of His written revelation to us. Without that it's anybodies guess and people aren't that inclined to give God the attributes that He has been revealed to have.

So what written revelation caused Paul to know God?

 

[ronniechoate34]

Ac:9:1: And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Ac:9:2: And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Ac:9:3: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Ac:9:4: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Ac:9:5: And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Ac:9:6: And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Ac:9:7: And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Ac:9:8: And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.


Obviously Paul saw the light and heard the Words of the Lord. He never saw Jesus Christ but he did hear the Word. Those same words that were spoken to Paul are recorded for us today. Does God reveal Himself through apparitions today? I don't know. But I do know this. No one conjures God up. God shows up on His time and His angels do too.

 

[mutzrein]

Ac:9:1: And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Ac:9:2: And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Ac:9:3: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Ac:9:4: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Ac:9:5: And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Ac:9:6: And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Ac:9:7: And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Ac:9:8: And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.


Obviously Paul saw the light and heard the Words of the Lord. He never saw Jesus Christ but he did hear the Word. Those same words that were spoken to Paul are recorded for us today. Does God reveal Himself through apparitions today? I don't know. But I do know this. No one conjures God up. God shows up on His time and His angels do too.

Yes of course I agree with that, and I agree that the bible is inspired of the Holy Spirit. But your statement "There is no way to know God short of His written revelation to us" I cannot agree with.

You see the word of God is not a book. Man has coined that phrase.
The word of God is Christ - and He dwells within us by God's spirit.
Jesus IS truth. The Spirit reveals Truth.
There is no denying that scripture is a record of the truth. But if the Spirit does not bring it to life then it is merely words on a page of a book. You can study it all you like and you can learn heaps (intellectually) but without Christ revealed, it cannot give life. And without Christ man cannot 'know' God.

It is as Jesus said to the pharisees, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

 

[ronniechoate34]

Ac:9:1: And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Ac:9:2: And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Ac:9:3: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Ac:9:4: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Ac:9:5: And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Ac:9:6: And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Ac:9:7: And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Ac:9:8: And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.


Obviously Paul saw the light and heard the Words of the Lord. He never saw Jesus Christ but he did hear the Word. Those same words that were spoken to Paul are recorded for us today. Does God reveal Himself through apparitions today? I don't know. But I do know this. No one conjures God up. God shows up on His time and His angels do too.

Yes of course I agree with that, and I agree that the bible is inspired of the Holy Spirit. But your statement "There is no way to know God short of His written revelation to us" I cannot agree with.

You see the word of God is not a book. Man has coined that phrase.
The word of God is Christ - and He dwells within us by God's spirit.
Jesus IS truth. The Spirit reveals Truth.
There is no denying that scripture is a record of the truth. But if the Spirit does not bring it to life then it is merely words on a page of a book. You can study it all you like and you can learn heaps (intellectually) but without Christ revealed, it cannot give life. And without Christ man cannot 'know' God.

It is as Jesus said to the pharisees, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose. I feel like that's what you are getting at. I have heard it before, people don't understand so they accuse me of worshiping a book or a translation. It's really common for people to badger me with that false judgment.

 

[mutzrein]

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose. I feel like that's what you are getting at. I have heard it before, people don't understand so they accuse me of worshiping a book or a translation. It's really common for people to badger me with that false judgment.

The point is not 'how can you know who Christ is' but 'how can you know Christ'. Man can never know who Christ is without knowing Christ and you don't get to know Christ by reading about Him - no matter what the book. Man can only KNOW Christ by being born of the Spirit of God.

 

[Ret]

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose....

• Psalms 19:1-3
  
  1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
  2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
  3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. KJV

God uses NATURE to teach the wonders about God's creation, though the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'.

• Romans 2:14-15
  
  14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
  do by nature the things contained in the law, these,
  having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
  
  15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
  their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts
  the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; KJV
  

For the Gentiles, God gave them a 'conscience' as a 'witness' to right and wrong. Thus they did 'by nature' the things contained in the book, because it was 'written in their hearts' yet, ...having never read any letters of a book.

 

[ronniechoate34]

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose....

• Psalms 19:1-3
  
  1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
  2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
  3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. KJV

God uses NATURE to teach the wonders about God's creation, though the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'.

• Romans 2:14-15
  
  14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
  do by nature the things contained in the law, these,
  having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
  
  15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
  their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts
  the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; KJV
  

For the Gentiles, God gave them a 'conscience' as a 'witness' to right and wrong. Thus they did 'by nature' the things contained in the book, because it was 'written in their hearts' yet, ...having never read any letters of a book.

LOL,,,that's rich. You used the Bible to try and prove we don't need the Word of God in order to know God and be saved.

 

[mutzrein]

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose....

• Psalms 19:1-3
  
  1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
  2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
  3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. KJV

God uses NATURE to teach the wonders about God's creation, though the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'.

• Romans 2:14-15
  
  14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
  do by nature the things contained in the law, these,
  having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
  
  15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
  their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts
  the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; KJV
  

For the Gentiles, God gave them a 'conscience' as a 'witness' to right and wrong. Thus they did 'by nature' the things contained in the book, because it was 'written in their hearts' yet, ...having never read any letters of a book.

LOL,,,that's rich. You used the Bible to try and prove we don't need the Word of God in order to know God and be saved.

What's wrong with using scripture? How about you giving us some scripture to show that knowing God indeed comes through scripture - as you assert.

 

[ronniechoate34]

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose. I feel like that's what you are getting at. I have heard it before, people don't understand so they accuse me of worshiping a book or a translation. It's really common for people to badger me with that false judgment.

The point is not 'how can you know who Christ is' but 'how can you know Christ'. Man can never know who Christ is without knowing Christ and you don't get to know Christ by reading about Him - no matter what the book. Man can only KNOW Christ by being born of the Spirit of God.

And man can only truly comprehend the Word of God by being born again and receiving Spiritual Baptism by the Holy Ghost who reveals these things. I know because I had little understanding before I repented. I thought I understood perfectly but since I have turned to Jesus Christ I realize that I was way off about God.


No way would we have the Word of God written down for us to see if it wasn't important. Words created this universe we live in. Words that God spoke are that powerful. Don't ever let anyone sway you that there isn't power in words. Words are of utmost importance to our Lord and His Word makes that clear. In fact we will give an account for every idle word we have spoken. I don't know why the written Word isn't as good as the spoken Word to everyone because they both belong to God and God is as good as His Word.


What on earth could limit an almighty God from delivering a message in its pure unadulterated form? Surely satan has always tried to ebb the flow of truth. I guess one way to do that it is to get people to believe that the Word is bogus and polluted.


Isn't Pan the god of nature. Do you practice pantheism? I don't believe that God is everywhere in every act.

What's wrong with using scripture? How about you giving us some scripture to show that knowing God indeed comes through scripture - as you assert.

Psalms:77:12: I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.


Psalms:119:15: I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.


Let me ask you a question. Without a compass or a sign to go by how do you know what direction you are headed?

 

[Ret]

• Psalms 19:1-3

God uses NATURE to teach the wonders about God's creation, though the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'.

• Romans 2:14-15

For the Gentiles, God gave them a 'conscience' as a 'witness' to right and wrong. Thus they did 'by nature' the things contained in the book, because it was 'written in their hearts' yet, ...having never read any letters of a book.

LOL,,,that's rich. You used the Bible to try and prove we don't need the Word of God in order to know God and be saved.

That might the first opinion one would get from Ps 19:1-3 and Ro 2:14,15, thought I do believe the God of the universe, will save some who have never heard about Jesus, and they will bow at His feet in the life to come because His law has been written upon their hearts. Beyond that, God will judge the one who is going to be saved, and who will be lost!

Also, I did say... the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'!

 

[ronniechoate34]

Also, I did say... the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'!

Sorry for that. You did say that. Please forgive me because I spoke to quickly. That's not the right way to treat a neighbor.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Also, I did say... the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'!

Sorry for that. You did say that. Please forgive me because I spoke to quickly. That's not the right way to treat a neighbor.

Let me say again that really I am sorry for being hasty. I really did overlook that part of your post.

 

[Ret]

Also, I did say... the written word(s) of God, give the clearest understanding of His character and from it comes the 'two edged sword'!

Sorry for that. You did say that. Please forgive me because I spoke to quickly. That's not the right way to treat a neighbor.

Much obliged and God Bless!

 

[mutzrein]

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose. I feel like that's what you are getting at. I have heard it before, people don't understand so they accuse me of worshiping a book or a translation. It's really common for people to badger me with that false judgment.

The point is not 'how can you know who Christ is' but 'how can you know Christ'. Man can never know who Christ is without knowing Christ and you don't get to know Christ by reading about Him - no matter what the book. Man can only KNOW Christ by being born of the Spirit of God.

My response in RED

And man can only truly comprehend the Word of God by being born again and receiving Spiritual Baptism by the Holy Ghost who reveals these things. True and I believe that they (being born again & being baptised in the Holy Ghost) are one and the same thing. I know because I had little understanding before I repented. I thought I understood perfectly but since I have turned to Jesus Christ I realize that I was way off about God. So you ARE saying that you know God because you were born again - because you couldn't comprehend the word before hand.

No way would we have the Word of God written down for us to see if it wasn't important. I'm not denying it is important. Words created this universe we live in. Words that God spoke are that powerful. Yes of course - Christ IS the Word of God. God speaks to man through His son. Don't ever let anyone sway you that there isn't power in words. Words are of utmost importance to our Lord and His Word makes that clear. In fact we will give an account for every idle word we have spoken. I don't know why the written Word isn't as good as the spoken Word to everyone because they both belong to God and God is as good as His Word. . The written word is the letter. It kills - unless it is made ‘alive’ by the Spirit.

What on earth could limit an almighty God from delivering a message in its pure unadulterated form? Surely satan has always tried to ebb the flow of truth. I guess one way to do that it is to get people to believe that the Word is bogus and polluted. He doesn’t need to - even satan quotes scripture. Who has said scripture is bogus and polluted?

Isn't Pan the god of nature. Do you practice pantheism? I don't believe that God is everywhere in every act. Pardon me? No. I believe in the one True God – who through His son brought everything into being.

What's wrong with using scripture? How about you giving us some scripture to show that knowing God indeed comes through scripture - as you assert.

Psalms:77:12: I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.

Psalms:119:15: I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

What have these verses got to do with the subject in hand? David ALREADY knew God because he was a child of God.

Let me ask you a question. Without a compass or a sign to go by how do you know what direction you are headed?
Do you not understand? It is the Spirit of God that has written the Word on our hearts. It is the Spirit that is our compass. It is the Spirit that leads because we are made alive by the Spirit – not by the written word.

 

[researcher]

Ac:9:1: And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Ac:9:2: And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Ac:9:3: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Ac:9:4: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Ac:9:5: And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Ac:9:6: And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Ac:9:7: And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Ac:9:8: And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.


Obviously Paul saw the light and heard the Words of the Lord. He never saw Jesus Christ but he did hear the Word. Those same words that were spoken to Paul are recorded for us today. Does God reveal Himself through apparitions today? I don't know. But I do know this. No one conjures God up. God shows up on His time and His angels do too.

Yes of course I agree with that, and I agree that the bible is inspired of the Holy Spirit. But your statement "There is no way to know God short of His written revelation to us" I cannot agree with.

You see the word of God is not a book. Man has coined that phrase.
The word of God is Christ - and He dwells within us by God's spirit.
Jesus IS truth. The Spirit reveals Truth.
There is no denying that scripture is a record of the truth. But if the Spirit does not bring it to life then it is merely words on a page of a book. You can study it all you like and you can learn heaps (intellectually) but without Christ revealed, it cannot give life. And without Christ man cannot 'know' God.

It is as Jesus said to the pharisees, "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

How can you know who Christ is without the record of His Word? You can't, I can't and no one can. It's simple really. The written Word of God is extremely important. I don't worship it though, I use it for it's intended purpose. I feel like that's what you are getting at. I have heard it before, people don't understand so they accuse me of worshiping a book or a translation. It's really common for people to badger me with that false judgment.

What did Abraham read to know God or get faith?

 

[researcher]

Ac:9:1: And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Ac:9:2: And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
Ac:9:3: And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Ac:9:4: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Ac:9:5: And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Ac:9:6: And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Ac:9:7: And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Ac:9:8: And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.


Obviously Paul saw the light and heard the Words of the Lord. He never saw Jesus Christ but he did hear the Word. Those same words that were spoken to Paul are recorded for us today. Does God reveal Himself through apparitions today? I don't know. But I do know this. No one conjures God up. God shows up on His time and His angels do too.

I heard the actual words of the Lord. Actual voice, actually talking to me, lol. I happened to be reading the Bible, but, unless He would have literally said something at that moment, I would have just kept reading and nothing would have happened. Lol. It took the Spirit to make the book actually come alive to me. If He wouldn't have, it wouldn't have, lol. :o

Link
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=43490

 

[researcher]

Ronnie, reread the chapter where Paul is talking about "hearing the word." I believe it's something different than what you think. Lol.

If you argue that God "Cannot" save someone without a literal "book," you are basically saying that, there is something that is impossible for God. Which would make God, not God. If you catch my drift, lol. ;)

It's the way God chose. Now if we get all our Bibles taken away, men of God had best have the Word of God memorized because preaching the Word is how men come to faith.

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

The Spirit can speak through someone to another person without quoting the Bible at all. The other person could be saved just from that if the Holy Spirit opens their eyes. Testimonies are an example of this. What Bible did Abraham get saved with?

 

[ronniechoate34]

I have said my peace. There is no need in my debating this any further with y'all. God has spoken and I don't believe that He is bound to say anything contrary to the Word that He left us, nor do I believe that God will add anything to His Word.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I heard the actual words of the Lord. Actual voice, actually talking to me, lol. I happened to be reading the Bible, but, unless He would have literally said something at that moment, I would have just kept reading and nothing would have happened. Lol. It took the Spirit to make the book actually come alive to me. If He wouldn't have, it wouldn't have, lol. :o

Link
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=43490

I doubt you. You don't hold to sound Biblical doctrine so I doubt if God has revealed anything to you. Jesus will return and you will be aware that you were mistaken concerning His return. Until you get that right I wouldn't be too keen on telling people that you have heard the voice of God. Don't you know that you are being contrary to the actual truth? Satan parades as light but he is simply a liar. Apparitions are real but they are often from a hellish source.


I saw God in a dream, a vision in the night my friend and Jesus will come again. In fact that was the vision and let me tell you that if you are not expecting Him then you'd better brace yourself because it's not going to be pleasant for those who sit in unbelief.

 

[ronniechoate34]

So you ARE saying that you know God because you were born again - because you couldn't comprehend the word before hand.

I comprehended what I read but now I have a different understanding. I used to hate God a great deal.

He doesn’t need to - even satan quotes scripture. Who has said scripture is bogus and polluted?

Maybe no one here on this forum but I have been told that by some who profess to be Christians. These people talk about how men added to and removed from the scriptures.

What have these verses got to do with the subject in hand? David ALREADY knew God because he was a child of God.

I guess David never looked at one written Word of God huh? He never saw the ten commandments or read any text at all. Is that right?

Do you not understand? It is the Spirit of God that has written the Word on our hearts. It is the Spirit that is our compass. It is the Spirit that leads because we are made alive by the Spirit – not by the written word.

We are made alive by the Spirit, but the Word directs us along the path.


Joh:10:16: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Joh:10:27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


The written Word of God is powerful. No one can stay in the faith without it. Either someone feeds it to them or they feed themselves.