J
Jordanthedutchy
Guest
Kay...this is a very controversial subject, I was actually looking for a thread about it because we have recently been learning about it. But since I couldn't find one I decided to start one of my own.
Okay here it goes.
I believe that you can not forgive someone until they are repentant.
But read on, let me tell you why I believe that.
I believe that it is totally clear in scripture.
"...If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day, turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him." (Lk. 17:3-4).
When Jesus taught us to forgive, he placed a CONDITION on that forgiveness "...IF he repent, forgive him". God does not unconditionally forgive anyone and Christ said our forgiveness of others is conditioned upon their repentance.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us." (1 John 1:8-10)
The Lord is not slow about His promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
"But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen, REPENT and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, UNLESS you repent." (Revelation 2:4-5 )
Over and over, the condition for forgiveness is repentance! It says IF we repent he is faithful and just to forgive... do you understand where I am coming from?
People ask me:
(Matt. 6:14-15) "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." What about that?
This is the answer that I have come up with:
Matthew 18
The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[1]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[2] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[3] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Now I’m sure you are very familiar with this story. What I see in this passage is this:
The servant who was forgiven the huge debt went out, came across someone else who owed him money and demanded that he be paid. The man ASKED for mercy, and the servant did not give it to him. Therefore the king, in turn did not forgive him.
We are to forgive men when they ask for forgiveness, because if we don’t, when we ask God for forgiveness He will not give it to us.
People ask: How do you deal with the bitterness?
I believe that bitterness is our WRONG reaction to situations, we must give situations to God, and not feel bitterness, but rather sadness and pain over the circumstances. Now pain and sadness are different than bitterness. That is actually the RIGHT way to deal with the situation. Grief and pain. You can find comfort from grief and pain in your Heavenly Father. But you cannot find comfort in bitterness.
We are also commanded to Forgive as our Father forgives. God hasn't forgiven everyone with out them asking for it. It is always there to be accepted, but he hasn't actually forgiven us. Because if he had forgiven the whole world, then the whole world would be going to heaven. Which they aren't.
Anyway...I hope this makes sense.
would like to know what you think about it.
Okay here it goes.
I believe that you can not forgive someone until they are repentant.
But read on, let me tell you why I believe that.
I believe that it is totally clear in scripture.
"...If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and IF he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day, turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him." (Lk. 17:3-4).
When Jesus taught us to forgive, he placed a CONDITION on that forgiveness "...IF he repent, forgive him". God does not unconditionally forgive anyone and Christ said our forgiveness of others is conditioned upon their repentance.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us." (1 John 1:8-10)
The Lord is not slow about His promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
"But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen, REPENT and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place, UNLESS you repent." (Revelation 2:4-5 )
Over and over, the condition for forgiveness is repentance! It says IF we repent he is faithful and just to forgive... do you understand where I am coming from?
People ask me:
(Matt. 6:14-15) "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." What about that?
This is the answer that I have come up with:
Matthew 18
The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[1]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[2] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[3] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Now I’m sure you are very familiar with this story. What I see in this passage is this:
The servant who was forgiven the huge debt went out, came across someone else who owed him money and demanded that he be paid. The man ASKED for mercy, and the servant did not give it to him. Therefore the king, in turn did not forgive him.
We are to forgive men when they ask for forgiveness, because if we don’t, when we ask God for forgiveness He will not give it to us.
People ask: How do you deal with the bitterness?
I believe that bitterness is our WRONG reaction to situations, we must give situations to God, and not feel bitterness, but rather sadness and pain over the circumstances. Now pain and sadness are different than bitterness. That is actually the RIGHT way to deal with the situation. Grief and pain. You can find comfort from grief and pain in your Heavenly Father. But you cannot find comfort in bitterness.
We are also commanded to Forgive as our Father forgives. God hasn't forgiven everyone with out them asking for it. It is always there to be accepted, but he hasn't actually forgiven us. Because if he had forgiven the whole world, then the whole world would be going to heaven. Which they aren't.
Anyway...I hope this makes sense.
would like to know what you think about it.