Four Seals

[for_his_glory]

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Revelation 6:1-8
First seal - white horse, Matthew 24:5

Second seal - red horse Matthew 24:6

Third seal - black horse Matthew 24:7

Fourth seal - pale horse Matthew 24:8,9

The scoffers say we have always had wars and rumors of war, nations against nations, pestilences, and earth quakes and they are right about that, but do not see the greater sign even here in America that all these things are on a greater scale worldwide and not centrally located anymore. The increase is the beginning of sorrows spoken of in Matthew 24:1-13 and Rev Chapter six as I believe we are into the first six seals with the seventh seal getting closer that begins the seven trumpets sounding. Maybe in our life time or not, it is still coming and now is the time to be prepared for the return of the Lord.

They do not see that of antichrist who will promise peace and show great wonders in the sky that could even deceive the very elect if possible as this false prophet will show that of Christ coming in the air, more than likely as a hologram, and many will see this false christ and take the mark of this beast, bowing down and worship the beast, Revelation chapter 13.

Revelation 6:1-8:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Red horse symbolizes Global war bringing much bloodshed to the land. The rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth and they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword: Matthew 24:6-10; Revelation 19:15

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Pale horse is a symbol of sickness and disease that follows after war that causes great famine in the world as many become sick and weak from dehydration and malnutrition and eventually die.

The pale horse riders name is Death. Following Death is Hell which means one that is laid in a grave after they have physically died as you can read in Strong’s Exhausted Concordance Hebrew #7585 – Greek # 86. Death is not a final destination, but a state of being until Christ returns and all, saint and sinner, will hear the voice of Christ to raise from their graves as some will raise to eternal life and some to eternal damnation, John 5:28, 29, Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[eddif]

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Revelation 6:1-8
First seal - white horse, Matthew 24:5

Second seal - red horse Matthew 24:6

Third seal - black horse Matthew 24:7

Fourth seal - pale horse Matthew 24:8,9

The scoffers say we have always had wars and rumors of war, nations against nations, pestilences, and earth quakes and they are right about that, but do not see the greater sign even here in America that all these things are on a greater scale worldwide and not centrally located anymore. The increase is the beginning of sorrows spoken of in Matthew 24:1-13 and Rev Chapter six as I believe we are into the first six seals with the seventh seal getting closer that begins the seven trumpets sounding. Maybe in our life time or not, it is still coming and now is the time to be prepared for the return of the Lord.

They do not see that of antichrist who will promise peace and show great wonders in the sky that could even deceive the very elect if possible as this false prophet will show that of Christ coming in the air, more than likely as a hologram, and many will see this false christ and take the mark of this beast, bowing down and worship the beast, Revelation chapter 13.

Revelation 6:1-8:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Red horse symbolizes Global war bringing much bloodshed to the land. The rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth and they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword: Matthew 24:6-10; Revelation 19:15

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Pale horse is a symbol of sickness and disease that follows after war that causes great famine in the world as many become sick and weak from dehydration and malnutrition and eventually die.

The pale horse riders name is Death. Following Death is Hell which means one that is laid in a grave after they have physically died as you can read in Strong’s Exhausted Concordance Hebrew #7585 – Greek # 86. Death is not a final destination, but a state of being until Christ returns and all, saint and sinner, will hear the voice of Christ to raise from their graves as some will raise to eternal life and some to eternal damnation, John 5:28, 29, Revelation 20:11-15.

https://www.genome.gov/sites/default/files/tg/en/illustration/base_pair_adv.jpg

Please look at the battle the world is facing now.

Four genetic seals with 7 spirits of life that chrona virus is upsetting .

Written within and without.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

https://www.genome.gov/sites/default/files/tg/en/illustration/base_pair_adv.jpg

Please look at the battle the world is facing now.

Four genetic seals with 7 spirits of life that chrona virus is upsetting .

Written within and without.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

With all due respect to you I have no idea what that chart is as it has no bearing on this topic. I do not want to make this about covid as there have always been plagues that have wiped-out many generations of people.

Not sure what you mean by 7 spirits of life. Could you explain this?

The seven seals beginning in Rev 6 that only Jesus is worthy to open span the next fifteen chapters of Revelation. Chapter six only explains the first six seals as in a brief scenario of what is about to take place during the timing of Gods seven trumpet and seven vial chastisements. Hopefully many will come back to God through repentance during the time of His fierce wrath upon those of disobedience as God would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Jesus spoke to His Disciples in Matthew Chapter twenty four of those things all of us need to be watchful of before His return as no man knows the day nor the hour of His return. It is not until Chapter eight that we see the seventh seal being opened that begins with the seven trumpets and leads up to the seven vial judgments of Gods fierce wrath. The seventh trumpet begins the full explanation of what happens to those who walk in disobedience to God before the great and terrible day of the Lords return as the powers of heaven will be shaken, Joel 2:30, 31; Luke 21:26.


​

 

[DavidT]

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Revelation 6:1-8
First seal - white horse, Matthew 24:5

Second seal - red horse Matthew 24:6

Third seal - black horse Matthew 24:7

Fourth seal - pale horse Matthew 24:8,9

The scoffers say we have always had wars and rumors of war, nations against nations, pestilences, and earth quakes and they are right about that, but do not see the greater sign even here in America that all these things are on a greater scale worldwide and not centrally located anymore. The increase is the beginning of sorrows spoken of in Matthew 24:1-13 and Rev Chapter six as I believe we are into the first six seals with the seventh seal getting closer that begins the seven trumpets sounding. Maybe in our life time or not, it is still coming and now is the time to be prepared for the return of the Lord.

They do not see that of antichrist who will promise peace and show great wonders in the sky that could even deceive the very elect if possible as this false prophet will show that of Christ coming in the air, more than likely as a hologram, and many will see this false christ and take the mark of this beast, bowing down and worship the beast, Revelation chapter 13.

Revelation 6:1-8:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Red horse symbolizes Global war bringing much bloodshed to the land. The rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth and they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword: Matthew 24:6-10; Revelation 19:15

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Pale horse is a symbol of sickness and disease that follows after war that causes great famine in the world as many become sick and weak from dehydration and malnutrition and eventually die.

The pale horse riders name is Death. Following Death is Hell which means one that is laid in a grave after they have physically died as you can read in Strong’s Exhausted Concordance Hebrew #7585 – Greek # 86. Death is not a final destination, but a state of being until Christ returns and all, saint and sinner, will hear the voice of Christ to raise from their graves as some will raise to eternal life and some to eternal damnation, John 5:28, 29, Revelation 20:11-15.

Pretty good.

One thing though, notice the 6th Seal is really in two parts, and the latter part shows the day of Christ's 2nd coming with His wrath being poured out upon the wicked. The first part of the 6th Seal is about the stars cast down like 'untimely figs', which is about Satan and his host booted out the heavenly down to earth in 'our' dimension, for the tribulation (see Revelation 12:7-17).

The event of Christ's coming with the final time of His Wrath is shown to happen on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. This means the 3 sets of Signs are not necessarily sequential, but are in a parallel order.

 

[eddif]

Pretty good.

One thing though, notice the 6th Seal is really in two parts, and the latter part shows the day of Christ's 2nd coming with His wrath being poured out upon the wicked. The first part of the 6th Seal is about the stars cast down like 'untimely figs', which is about Satan and his host booted out the heavenly down to earth in 'our' dimension, for the tribulation (see Revelation 12:7-17).

The event of Christ's coming with the final time of His Wrath is shown to happen on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. This means the 3 sets of Signs are not necessarily sequential, but are in a parallel order.

Do you use Jewish PaRDeS ?

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

DavidT this thread was only about the first four seals, but here is the full I have written about the seals being opened up to the ending of the seventh trumpet when Christ returns.

Nut shell scenario of what will happen during the first six trumpets of Rev Chapter 8-11 that leads up to the seventh trumpet and the 3 1/2 years events of Chapter 13 with the beast out of the sea and out of the earth.

God’s wrath is poured out into the world as chastisements for disobedience, but also a warning that man needs to repent and turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever when Christ returns.

Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our wellbeing will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.

This great mountain burning with fire could be a large asteroid as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.

These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed. There is only one ocean, but divided by four regions as being the Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Arctic Ocean, and the Indian Ocean. This would be like the four corners of the earth as being North, South, East and West. The only difference between the ocean and the sea is that the ocean is much larger and feeds into the 108 seas around the world that also flow into our lakes and streams that provide us with fresh drinking water and other sources of food.

With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.

Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.

Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.

This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much. IMO Marshal law will be enforced as we see history repeat itself with many Christians taken captive that did not flee and killed as they refuse to denounce Christ and take the mark. They will also die a martyr's death, Rev 6:9-11, especially vs. 11. Also we are not to fear what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28.

This is where the mark of the beast comes in during the seventh trumpet as this NWO is a Luciferian system of economics, political, military, educational and false religious power that gives power to the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition. By lying signs and wonders the beast will deceive the nations (people) into taking its mark. IMO I think the mark is the thoughts of our mind and the actions of our hands reaching out to this beast that promises peace, safety and provision as many will bow down and worship this beast who claims to be God.

After the 3 1/2 years of this Luciferian reign on earth that will wear out the saints, Daniel 7:25, then every eye will see Christ coming in the clouds with His army of angels that are then sent out to gather those saints who are alive at His coming and those who sleep in their graves, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19:11-21. We are gathered up to the clouds as we receive our new glorified bodies in order to meet Jesus in the air. From the air He destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming only speaking their destruction casting them into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for a time as Jesus sets out to destroy all the nations that followed after the beast. Satan is then released in a final attempt to destroy the saints as he sends his angels out to surround the camp of the saints, but the angels are consumed by fire and Satan cast into the lake of fire. Then comes God's great white throne judgment and the books are opened and all are judged. Then this present heaven and earth are burned up and made new again and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven where we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[DavidT]

Do you use Jewish PaRDeS ?

eddif

You mean Jewish mysticism, esotericism? Goodness no! I'm not Jewish, and definitely not into their mysticism confusion. I stick to God's Word, and that means parts that are literal, and parts that are symbolically speaking about something that is still literal.

 

[DavidT]

DavidT this thread was only about the first four seals, but here is the full I have written about the seals being opened up to the ending of the seventh trumpet when Christ returns.

Nut shell scenario of what will happen during the first six trumpets of Rev Chapter 8-11 that leads up to the seventh trumpet and the 3 1/2 years events of Chapter 13 with the beast out of the sea and out of the earth.

I'm very careful about not letting Chapter order conflict with understanding the actual written events. The event of Christ's coming and His wrath of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is written of on the 6th Seal, the 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. In His Olivet discourse He covered only seven main Signs of the end leading up to His return. That's also what the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials, are, just those same seven Signs expanded.

The "great tribulation" time happens within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period. Lord Jesus gave us 3 specific Woe periods to notice about the latter events leading up to His coming. He comes on the 3rd Woe. So everything that happens between Revelation 9:12 and Revelation 11:15 is within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing, Revelation 10 being a parenthetical break.

God’s wrath is poured out into the world as chastisements for disobedience, but also a warning that man needs to repent and turn back to God before the door of salvation is closed forever when Christ returns.

When speaking of God's wrath poured out on the "day of the Lord", and per His Old Testament prophets about that, that particular wrath is on the very last day of this world. The previous Vials of God's wrath is different. Many on man's false pre-trib rapture theory are taught the wrath of 1 Thessalonians 5:9 which Paul taught is about the "great tribulation" time. It is not. It is about the final day of this world with Jesus' coming, on the "day of the Lord". Because their teachers are in confusion on that wrath, they also wrongly teach their pre-trib rapture congregations that the great tribulation is the "day of the Lord". It is not. The "day of the Lord" only occurs on the very last day of this world, with Christ's coming, which is when God's cup of wrath is poured out upon the wicked.

Notice in Revelation 11 God's two witnesses that prophesy against the beast for 1260 days have the power of plagues upon the earth. That is the wrath that will happen with the previous 6 Vials upon the beast. But the 7th Vial, that final day of God's wrath is to happen with the battle of Armageddon on the last day.

Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our wellbeing will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.

There are many things that are to happen prior to the "great tribulation" timing. Jesus called those things the "beginning of sorrows"; wars and rumors of wars, nation against nation, famines, pestilences, earthquakes in various places. But those things are not... the great trib time. And notice the locusts on the 5th trumpet are not allowed to hurt any green thing, nor kill anyone not sealed with God's seal.

This great mountain burning with fire could be a large asteroid as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.

These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed. There is only one ocean, but divided by four regions as being the Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Arctic Ocean, and the Indian Ocean. This would be like the four corners of the earth as being North, South, East and West. The only difference between the ocean and the sea is that the ocean is much larger and feeds into the 108 seas around the world that also flow into our lakes and streams that provide us with fresh drinking water and other sources of food.

With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.

Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.

Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.

This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much. IMO Marshal law will be enforced as we see history repeat itself with many Christians taken captive that did not flee and killed as they refuse to denounce Christ and take the mark. They will also die a martyr's death, Rev 6:9-11, especially vs. 11. Also we are not to fear what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28.

This is where the mark of the beast comes in during the seventh trumpet as this NWO is a Luciferian system of economics, political, military, educational and false religious power that gives power to the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition. By lying signs and wonders the beast will deceive the nations (people) into taking its mark. IMO I think the mark is the thoughts of our mind and the actions of our hands reaching out to this beast that promises peace, safety and provision as many will bow down and worship this beast who claims to be God.

After the 3 1/2 years of this Luciferian reign on earth that will wear out the saints, Daniel 7:25, then every eye will see Christ coming in the clouds with His army of angels that are then sent out to gather those saints who are alive at His coming and those who sleep in their graves, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19:11-21. We are gathered up to the clouds as we receive our new glorified bodies in order to meet Jesus in the air. From the air He destroys the beast and false prophet by the brightness of His coming only speaking their destruction casting them into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for a time as Jesus sets out to destroy all the nations that followed after the beast. Satan is then released in a final attempt to destroy the saints as he sends his angels out to surround the camp of the saints, but the angels are consumed by fire and Satan cast into the lake of fire. Then comes God's great white throne judgment and the books are opened and all are judged. Then this present heaven and earth are burned up and made new again and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven where we will be with the Lord forever.

Sorry, but that's just too much sensationalism for me. Most of those Revelation symbols are metaphors for spiritual deception and spiritual death.

For instance, are the locusts of Rev.9 about real locusts? No. God is simply using the natural locust as a symbol for how... those will attack. By putting together all the symbols and metaphors given there, what is actually revealed is the locusts are certain men that destroy by what comes out of their mouth, because it says their power is in their mouths, thus it's really about lies of deception upon the deceived. And the locust and scorpion attacks are only symbolic of how those false prophets deceive for the very end of this world. That is the type of death the Scripture is pointing to, i.e., spiritual death, because that is what the dragon of Revelation 12 in the latter part of that Chapter is to do, cast out lies like waters of a flood, to deceive the whole world, particularly those in Christ Jesus. Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse did warn us especially about the coming of 'a spurious Messiah' that will setup the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new temple built in Jerusalem for the end. (Dr. James Strong translated "false Christs" in the KJV of Matthew 24:24 to 'a spurious Messiah', seeing how the context of Matthew 24:23-26 is about a singular false one.)

 

[Exeter]

By putting together all the symbols and metaphors given there, what is actually revealed is the locusts are certain men that destroy by what comes out of their mouth, because it says their power is in their mouths, thus it's really about lies of deception upon the deceived.

Is it alright to eat locusts like John the Baptist did?
I've been told they can be fried and have a nutty flavour.
Some I saw in a display were quite small.

 

[eddif]

You mean Jewish mysticism, esotericism? Goodness no! I'm not Jewish, and definitely not into their mysticism confusion. I stick to God's Word, and that means parts that are literal, and parts that are symbolically speaking about something that is still literal.

Ok. Look I appreciate your response. I was fishing to learn some more about you. Not just physical things as such, but spiritual things too.

To me the parable of the sower is an example of confusion with a purpose.
Parables were used by Jesus to present a spiritual fact concealed in a physical or social context.

The preacher presents the word of God much like a planter places seed where they will grow,

The seed are equal to the word of God.
The ground is equal to mens hearts.

Meta is a Bible Greek word. Where and how many times I do not know.

Metaphysics is something greater than the physical. The following may not be meta.

Matthew 12:42 kjv
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

It is not about the man Solomon, but the wisdom God gave Solomon.

So there are levels of understanding.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

DavidT first I am in agreement with you as their is no pretrib Rapture of the church. I will address the woes first and then continue about the day of the Lord.

The seven trumpets beginning in Revelation 8:6 and ending on the last day when Christ returns are all about Gods wrath being poured out upon all nations and has everything to do with Gods Salvation. Many during this time will repent and turn back to God as they will finally have ears to hear the gospel being preached to them by all those who are still alive at this time and have Gods anointing to preach the Gospel. There are no separate trumpets for the saints and sinners as there are only seven that are sounded by the angels as God sends each one out as the soundings brings in all of Gods wrath upon those who refuse to repent and turn back to Him. God said that He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. Even though God's longsuffering and patience will come to an end as everyone will have an opportunity to repent as the Gospels will have been preached to everyone, but it is only those who will accept Gods free gift of grace, Ephesians 2:8, by faith will be saved. All Christians including those who at this time of the end have finally accepted Jesus will have eternal life with the Father.

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

It's during the sounding of the seventh trumpet as being the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 that during this last trumpet mystery Babylon being the mother of harlots will be revealed as the the son of perdition will be exposed, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. This is the false prophet as he forces all to bow down to him and take the mark of the beast or face persecution even to death as many saints of God at this time will die a martyr's death for their witness and testimony of Christ. Many who are weak in faith will fall away from Christ as they accept this mark as they fear for their own lives as this is the falling away the scriptures speak of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 and Hebrews 6:4-6 as many will be deceived as even now by all the false doctrines that are being taught by man.

It's not until after the seven vial judgements, Rev 16, that mystery Babylon the great is exposed, Rev 17, and then destroyed, Rev 18, as Christ returns in the air with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21, being only the heavenly host (angels) as no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven, John 3:13. At this time on the last day, John 6:40, Christ will destroy the beast and the false prophet, being the son of perdition, casting them into the lake of fire and slaying the remnant, possibly being the leaders of every nation that the beast out of the sea in Rev 13 controls and gives power to as they rule over the nations.

I do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ when He binds Satan, but it being figurative in its numbering as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8. I believe at this time of Satan being bound the events of John 5:28, 29, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 will occur quickly as there is only one resurrection, but two separate judgements. All who are in their graves will hear the voice of Christ to rise as we who are of Christ, alive and in the grave, will be caught up and gathered to Him and will then be judged and given our rewards, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 11. Those of the second death, Revelation 2:11, 20:6, who have rejected Christ will be judged at the Great White Throne judgment as their names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. They are cast into the lake of fire where Satan and his army that he gathered from all nations to battle against the camp of the saints, but have been consumed by the fire sent down from heaven and Satan cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:7-10. God then proceeds to renew the heaven and earth and ushers down the New Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord for all eternity.

 

[for_his_glory]

DavidT The day of the Lord.

The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out into the world that will have a great impact on those who refuse to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase "the day of the Lord" is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages like Revelation 6:17; 16:14.

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day beginning Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel that Jesus sent to him all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week, Genesis 2:1-3 a day of rest.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:1-10 Peter is not talking about six days of creation with the seven day as a sabbath. The full context is Peter addressing the mockers about the return of Christ, 2 Peter 3:1-7. Peter is actually quoting Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. This also parallels with Psalms 63:6 and Psalms 119:148 that speak of night watches that we read in 2 Peter 3:10 that Jesus will come as a thief in the night and that we just need to be ready as we watch for His return, Matthew 24:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Vs. 8-10 Peter gives the manifestation of the day of the Lord and if you take notice of the "is" and "as" in vs. 8 they are a figure of speech or a simile as being like a thousand years, but yet God's timing, not our timing. It's also like "a twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:2 as you can not define a twinkling in measurement of time. Man's literal counting of days is not always how God numbers days in hours, minutes or seconds. This is why I do not consider 1000 years as being literal in 2 Peter 3:8 or Rev 20, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

 

[for_his_glory]

Is it alright to eat locusts like John the Baptist did?
I've been told they can be fried and have a nutty flavour.
Some I saw in a display were quite small.

If you really want to eat one then yes, go for it.

Would you like to share your thoughts on this topic?

 

[DavidT]

Is it alright to eat locusts like John the Baptist did?
I've been told they can be fried and have a nutty flavour.
Some I saw in a display were quite small.

Well, they are not on God's unhealthy food list. In some places in Europe they are eaten, like the Netherlands I think. They've been a delicacy in Mexico for centuries.

 

[DavidT]

Ok. Look I appreciate your response. I was fishing to learn some more about you. Not just physical things as such, but spiritual things too.

To me the parable of the sower is an example of confusion with a purpose.
Parables were used by Jesus to present a spiritual fact concealed in a physical or social context.

Not sure I get that "confusion with a purpose". I grasp your second statement. He did put a lot of things in the form of a mystery, mainly because at His 1st coming it wasn't time for everyone to understand, plus He was to be delivered up to die on the cross for us, and that had to come to pass. If he had come right out and explained all His parables to the multitudes so they could understand, it probably would have given the scribes and Pharisees enough to execute Him before it was time.

The preacher presents the word of God much like a planter places seed where they will grow,

The seed are equal to the word of God.
The ground is equal to mens hearts.

Meta is a Bible Greek word. Where and how many times I do not know.

Metaphysics is something greater than the physical. The following may not be meta.

Matthew 12:42 kjv
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

It is not about the man Solomon, but the wisdom God gave Solomon.

So there are levels of understanding.

eddif

I agree there are levels of Bible understanding. But they will always agree with each other.

 

[DavidT]

DavidT first I am in agreement with you as their is no pretrib Rapture of the church. I will address the woes first and then continue about the day of the Lord.

The seven trumpets beginning in Revelation 8:6 and ending on the last day when Christ returns are all about Gods wrath being poured out upon all nations and has everything to do with Gods Salvation. Many during this time will repent and turn back to God as they will finally have ears to hear the gospel being preached to them by all those who are still alive at this time and have Gods anointing to preach the Gospel. There are no separate trumpets for the saints and sinners as there are only seven that are sounded by the angels as God sends each one out as the soundings brings in all of Gods wrath upon those who refuse to repent and turn back to Him. God said that He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. Even though God's longsuffering and patience will come to an end as everyone will have an opportunity to repent as the Gospels will have been preached to everyone, but it is only those who will accept Gods free gift of grace, Ephesians 2:8, by faith will be saved. All Christians including those who at this time of the end have finally accepted Jesus will have eternal life with the Father.

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

It's during the sounding of the seventh trumpet as being the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 that during this last trumpet mystery Babylon being the mother of harlots will be revealed as the the son of perdition will be exposed, 2 Thessalonians 2:3. This is the false prophet as he forces all to bow down to him and take the mark of the beast or face persecution even to death as many saints of God at this time will die a martyr's death for their witness and testimony of Christ. Many who are weak in faith will fall away from Christ as they accept this mark as they fear for their own lives as this is the falling away the scriptures speak of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 and Hebrews 6:4-6 as many will be deceived as even now by all the false doctrines that are being taught by man.

I understand what you are saying, but I see the Scripture a bit differently. Because of the sealing by God's seal, it will be too late for the deceived to convert to Christ once the time of "great tribulation" starts. Either one is sealed or they are not by that time.

I know that the pre-trib rapture theory falsely teaches the idea of 'tribulation saints', mainly pointing to unbelieving Jews that convert to Christ during the great trib, but that is nowhere written. The way we know this is because of the several Scriptures about the unbelievers wishing for the mountains and hills to fall on them, because of their having rejected Him, and they are shamed when they see Jesus coming in the clouds. Those are deceived who actually love God, but are simply deceived by the false crept in unawares among their Jewish leadership.

Jesus gives this warning also to His Church too, in Revelation 16:15 saying that He comes "as a thief", and blessed are those who wait and keep their garments, lest they walk naked and in shame, i.e., in the spiritual sense. For this reason, we are warned to stay chaste virgins for Christ, waiting on His coming, because once the pseudo-Christ arrives, the dividing line between those sealed by God vs. the deceived, will remain until Christ is revealed.

It's not until after the seven vial judgements, Rev 16, that mystery Babylon the great is exposed, Rev 17, and then destroyed, Rev 18, as Christ returns in the air with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21, being only the heavenly host (angels) as no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven, John 3:13. At this time on the last day, John 6:40, Christ will destroy the beast and the false prophet, being the son of perdition, casting them into the lake of fire and slaying the remnant, possibly being the leaders of every nation that the beast out of the sea in Rev 13 controls and gives power to as they rule over the nations.

Well, I see the Scripture pointing to the day of Christ's return being when the Babylon Harlot is destroyed, and not before, and that is on the final 7th Vial (and 7th Trumpet, and 6th Seal). What you appear to be doing is treating the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials each as a set that only occurs in order, like the Seals happen first, then the Trumpets happen next, then the Vials happen last, like the order the Signs were given to John to write down. The majority make that order mistake when trying to understand Christ's Book of Revelation.

I do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ when He binds Satan, but it being figurative in its numbering as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8. I believe at this time of Satan being bound the events of John 5:28, 29, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 will occur quickly as there is only one resurrection, but two separate judgements. All who are in their graves will hear the voice of Christ to rise as we who are of Christ, alive and in the grave, will be caught up and gathered to Him and will then be judged and given our rewards, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 11. Those of the second death, Revelation 2:11, 20:6, who have rejected Christ will be judged at the Great White Throne judgment as their names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life. They are cast into the lake of fire where Satan and his army that he gathered from all nations to battle against the camp of the saints, but have been consumed by the fire sent down from heaven and Satan cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:7-10. God then proceeds to renew the heaven and earth and ushers down the New Jerusalem where we will be with the Lord for all eternity.

Well, I do believe in a 'literal' "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, because it is written. Nor is it given as a metaphor or a symbol in Revelation 20. And there are parallel events of that period written in the Books of God's prophets that confirm that Revelation 20 period. Furthermore, the 1st century Church fathers also believed it to be a literal "thousand years" period that begins immediately on the day of Jesus' return. The theory from men called Amillennialism, which is what you are speaking of, came about in the 2nd century, and in a time when Christian Gnosticism was creeping into the Church, which is how Amillennialism speculates with literal events written in God's Word, instead treating them in the spiritual sense. The worse case of spiritualization in God's Word that I've see is with Full Preterists which don't even believe in a literal physical return of Lord Jesus, and some of those even claim Jesus' 2nd coming already happened in the days of His Apostles. Thus I advise to stick with what God's Word says, and be careful of men's fancy speculations about God's Word.

 

[DavidT]

DavidT The day of the Lord.

The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out into the world that will have a great impact on those who refuse to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase "the day of the Lord" is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages like Revelation 6:17; 16:14.

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day beginning Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel that Jesus sent to him all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week, Genesis 2:1-3 a day of rest.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:1-10 Peter is not talking about six days of creation with the seven day as a sabbath. The full context is Peter addressing the mockers about the return of Christ, 2 Peter 3:1-7. Peter is actually quoting Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. This also parallels with Psalms 63:6 and Psalms 119:148 that speak of night watches that we read in 2 Peter 3:10 that Jesus will come as a thief in the night and that we just need to be ready as we watch for His return, Matthew 24:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Vs. 8-10 Peter gives the manifestation of the day of the Lord and if you take notice of the "is" and "as" in vs. 8 they are a figure of speech or a simile as being like a thousand years, but yet God's timing, not our timing. It's also like "a twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:2 as you can not define a twinkling in measurement of time. Man's literal counting of days is not always how God numbers days in hours, minutes or seconds. This is why I do not consider 1000 years as being literal in 2 Peter 3:8 or Rev 20, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Hate to say it, but it sounds like you like talking yourself into things. There is no basis in Scripture that gives reason to deny the literal "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20. And a day to our Heavenly Father indeed is like a thousand years to us, pointing to how His sense of time is different than ours, and nothing more. So one does not have to try and bring the idea of the sabbath into that.

The "day of the Lord" in the Old Testament prophets is described as a day of destruction by God. In 1 Thessalonians 5, Apostle Paul is repeating about that idea of destruction upon the wicked on that day. And like Peter, Apostle Paul also uses Christ's "as a thief" metaphor to show how that event on the last day of this world will be a total surprise upon the deceived and the wicked, and the reason is because that's the idea God showed about that last day, coming at an instant, suddenly, per His Old Testament prophets.

Here's a simple way to know that men's theory of Amillenialism is a false doctrine. The Zechariah 14 shows Jesus' return on the "day of the Lord". He then begins His reign over all nations as shown there. And leftovers that came up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world, are then made to come up to Jerusalem and worship The KING, and keep the feast of tabernacles. And any of the families of the earth that refuse to come up, there will be no rain on their lands. This reveals there is still the option of rebellion in that future time after His 2nd coming. But Amillennialism instead falsely teaches that on the day of Christ's return, the wicked are destroy and we immediately go into the new heavens and a new earth time, i.e., God's Eternity. Well, that theory is not at all written anywhere in God's Word, so one must go outside of God's written Word to believe it, or make up spiritualizations speculations, which basically means lying to oneself. God will allow one to be deceived if that's what they want.

Also, in Revelation 3, Lord Jesus said that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at the feet of His elect. That has never happened during this present world. Thus that reveals the wicked are still with us on earth after Christ's future return. Likewise the Revelation 22:14-15 Scripture does reveal this, with the wicked still existing outside the gates of the holy city, with a reference to the Tree of Life being inside those gates.

 

[eddif]

Not sure I get that "confusion with a purpose". I grasp your second statement. He did put a lot of things in the form of a mystery, mainly because at His 1st coming it wasn't time for everyone to understand, plus He was to be delivered up to die on the cross for us, and that had to come to pass. If he had come right out and explained all His parables to the multitudes so they could understand, it probably would have given the scribes and Pharisees enough to execute Him before it was time.

Isaiah 6:8 kjv
8: Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

You have brought up a good point about time. Before you mentioned time I had seen the Isaiah 6 passage as being a foreshadowing about what Jesus would do ( Matthew 13 and Mark 4 use the same words ).
However
Isaiah did have a message of warning for the people of Israel. The destruction of the 400 years of silence had not come yet. Isaiah and especially Ezekiel told of the coming destruction.

Isaiah 6:11 kjv
11. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
12. And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: sothe holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

The destruction of life is mentioned in Ezekiel, and the saving of those who mourned over the sins of Israel ( who were scattered to the nations for safekeeping ).

John the Baptist had a message that made the hearts of people repent of sin ( different kind of destruction ).

“”because at His 1st coming it wasn't time for everyone to understand, plus He was to be delivered up to die on the cross for us, and that had to come to pass””

So at his coming he had a warning of eternal destruction, and the promise of eternal life for those who saw redemption in the Gospel message.
The disciples could ask what the parable of the sower meant and remove the confusion / questions about parables.


You have set the stage for a lot more knowledge. Thanks for continuing to post.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

I understand what you are saying, but I see the Scripture a bit differently. Because of the sealing by God's seal, it will be too late for the deceived to convert to Christ once the time of "great tribulation" starts. Either one is sealed or they are not by that time.

I know that the pre-trib rapture theory falsely teaches the idea of 'tribulation saints', mainly pointing to unbelieving Jews that convert to Christ during the great trib, but that is nowhere written. The way we know this is because of the several Scriptures about the unbelievers wishing for the mountains and hills to fall on them, because of their having rejected Him, and they are shamed when they see Jesus coming in the clouds. Those are deceived who actually love God, but are simply deceived by the false crept in unawares among their Jewish leadership.

Jesus gives this warning also to His Church too, in Revelation 16:15 saying that He comes "as a thief", and blessed are those who wait and keep their garments, lest they walk naked and in shame, i.e., in the spiritual sense. For this reason, we are warned to stay chaste virgins for Christ, waiting on His coming, because once the pseudo-Christ arrives, the dividing line between those sealed by God vs. the deceived, will remain until Christ is revealed.


Well, I see the Scripture pointing to the day of Christ's return being when the Babylon Harlot is destroyed, and not before, and that is on the final 7th Vial (and 7th Trumpet, and 6th Seal). What you appear to be doing is treating the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials each as a set that only occurs in order, like the Seals happen first, then the Trumpets happen next, then the Vials happen last, like the order the Signs were given to John to write down. The majority make that order mistake when trying to understand Christ's Book of Revelation.



Well, I do believe in a 'literal' "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, because it is written. Nor is it given as a metaphor or a symbol in Revelation 20. And there are parallel events of that period written in the Books of God's prophets that confirm that Revelation 20 period. Furthermore, the 1st century Church fathers also believed it to be a literal "thousand years" period that begins immediately on the day of Jesus' return. The theory from men called Amillennialism, which is what you are speaking of, came about in the 2nd century, and in a time when Christian Gnosticism was creeping into the Church, which is how Amillennialism speculates with literal events written in God's Word, instead treating them in the spiritual sense. The worse case of spiritualization in God's Word that I've see is with Full Preterists which don't even believe in a literal physical return of Lord Jesus, and some of those even claim Jesus' 2nd coming already happened in the days of His Apostles. Thus I advise to stick with what God's Word says, and be careful of men's fancy speculations about God's Word.

I see that you lump up everything as being all done at once as far as the seven trumpets, the timing of the son of perdition and the seven vial judgements, but that is not what is written in the scriptures as far as the unfolding of end time events. The events are clearly laid out what will happen before Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations here on earth. Everyone, even during the tribulation during the seven trumpets sounding will have a chance to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior up to the time when the door of God's salvation will be closed forever when Christ returns on the last day.

In Revelation beginning in Chapter 4 where John first receives these visions I believe they are in the order they will happen beginning with the seven seals, through the seven trumpets, the mark of the beast, the vial judgements and the time of Christ return where He destroys the beast and the false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire and we being caught up to him on that last day.

 

[DavidT]

I see that you lump up everything as being all done at once as far as the seven trumpets, the timing of the son of perdition and the seven vial judgements, but that is not what is written in the scriptures as far as the unfolding of end time events. The events are clearly laid out what will happen before Christ returns and makes an end to all abominations here on earth. Everyone, even during the tribulation during the seven trumpets sounding will have a chance to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior up to the time when the door of God's salvation will be closed forever when Christ returns on the last day.

In Revelation beginning in Chapter 4 where John first receives these visions I believe they are in the order they will happen beginning with the seven seals, through the seven trumpets, the mark of the beast, the vial judgements and the time of Christ return where He destroys the beast and the false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire and we being caught up to him on that last day.

Like I had said, many make the mistake of thinking that the order in which John was given the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials, that that is the actual order of all those events. It is not. And I already gave one direct Scripture example to prove what I said, but you simply bypassed it because it's obvious you believe something else. So now you force me to actually show the actual Scriptures so others can see the truth of the matter...

All... the below Scriptures are about the last day of this world, the day of Christ's 2nd coming...

Rev 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

Rev 11:15-18
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, "We give Thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Which art, and wast, and art to come; because Thou hast taken to Thee Thy great power, and hast reigned."
18 And the nations were angry, and Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that Thou shouldest give reward unto Thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear Thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
KJV

Rev 16:15-21
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
KJV

Thus as I said before, Jesus comes and pours out His cup of Wrath upon the wicked on the 6th Seal, the 7th Trumpet, and the 7th Vial, as written. If you want to counter that, then know that you will be straying from the written Scriptures.