Frequency of intimacy in marriage

[reba]

How about you taking care of the little one a couple nights in a row so she can get some rest... The Baby is 10 months. She has not had good sleep for at lest a year...

 

[andyboylester]

Lacking mammary glands, I am singularly unsuited to looking after the baby for even one night a week (which, btw, I would gladly do. She tried expressing breast milk, and it doesn't work well for her). Following the stillbirth of our son at 26 weeks, my wife is extremely protective of our children and feels the need to be personally there for them, particularly when they are babies. Understand, this is NOT to the exclusion of our other older kids, and doesn't go on for an unhealthy amount of time. It's a reassurance for her.
As far as porn is concerned, as I said, it's a temptation, but that's all it is. It's why Paul says explicitly that a husband and wife should not abstain from sex for too long in order to avoid the temptation to fall into sexual sin.
I'll make no bones about it: I enjoy sex, and I feel somewhat frustrated if I have to do without, but I have no plans to seek it elsewhere. I am my beloved's and she is mine.

 

[Blazin Bones]

A tricky subject indeed... From how often, to the ways it can be done, to the how to manage our emotions individually inside our marriages. It will certainly vary from marraige to marraige and it does not need to be treated as though one gender is more to blame than another. Yes it is true, men typically falter on the over-expressing side while woman typically falter on the under-expressing side.

Regardless, my response to the OP would be that this question is best answered by your loved one. The more we openly discuss this topic, as much as we may feel we are "helping" each other, we are also setting ground work for disputes with-in relationships where one spouse is unhappy, and this thread offers them fuel for their arguements. Take up your concerns with your spouse or a pastor, or at least with a close sibling in Christ.

 

[Mike]

I do believe a husband needs to understand his wife's feelings, as much as he is able to, but a wife needs to understand his God-Given yearnings. Ideally, this is a Gift from God that two married people should enjoy, but I know our fallen world has corrupted it. If you don't mind me saying, this might be something to discuss with a good Christian counselor for the good of you, your husband, and your marriage. When two spouses are in conflict over this, there can arise some serious resentment. Again, it's a two-way street of understanding.

Just a reminder here before this goes too far. This is a publicly viewed forum where visitors of any age may be reading. So far, so good, but if anyone desires to take this any further, s/he should take it to their respective Locker-Rooms. Andy, I don't believe you have permissions to the Men's Locker Room yet. You can request access through your Profile Page, along the left side of the panel in the groups section.

This is a very interesting thread, and I don't want to squash it. If you're posting here, just try to be mindful of where you are at.

 

[andyboylester]

Mike, I've requested access to the men's locker room thingy. I supppose this is the kind of discussion that can cause all sorts of feelings to show themselves.
Bless you.

 

[Blazin Bones]

At the request of the section Mod, this thread has been touched up and a spin off will be added to the Women's locker-room. We want to accomodate each users thoughts while also providing the best locations for such discussions.

Thank you for your patience!

 

[23Psalm]

This is what I don't understand about women, why would you want to deny your husband sex? Knowing that lack of sex, can lead to other things that can destroy a marriage. I know with life comes responsibilities-kids, career, health, etc. But to deny your hubby sex, I just don't understand at all. Christian or not, men still have needs and men still love sex. I guess we as men need to be understanding when certain things come up, but I think this is why a lot of people are single and have pre-marital sex--because they hear the horror stories from men about the lack of sex they get when they are married.

What's crazy is that I overheard my wife one day talking to her friend and said, "I really don't like to have sex that much. I'm too tired. If he (referring to me) got it from somebody else, I would be okay with that. " I was blown when I heard that comment. So she rather for me to self please myself or get it from somebody else. Lord help us.

 

[reba]

This is what I don't understand about women, why would you want to deny your husband sex? Knowing that lack of sex, can lead to other things that can destroy a marriage. I know with life comes responsibilities-kids, career, health, etc. But to deny your hubby sex, I just don't understand at all. Christian or not, men still have needs and men still love sex. I guess we as men need to be understanding when certain things come up, but I think this is why a lot of people are single and have pre-marital sex--because they hear the horror stories from men about the lack of sex they get when they are married.

What's crazy is that I overheard my wife one day talking to her friend and said, "I really don't like to have sex that much. I'm too tired. If he (referring to me) got it from somebody else, I would be okay with that. " I was blown when I heard that comment. So she rather for me to self please myself or get it from somebody else. Lord help us.

men still have needs and men still love sex.

Might be a clue here 23.... I noticed you did not say" i love my wife."

Speaking in generalities...
Women have needs too like knowing they are loved! Your post says a whole lot... Some times the lack of sex is because s/he is grumpy until the lights go out. One spouse can be putting the other down and not even knowing it.
I read your post as being totally self centered... Could be you posted at an off moment.. Not all us women are a like some of us enjoy sex also...

 

[handy]

I'm going to speak in general terms here... in light that this isn't the Locker rooms...

So, I don't want anyone to think I'm responding to any person in particular... just sharing insights on the general issue of why women seem less interested in sex than men...

Mainly... it's because for many women, "missionary" sex isn't all that great an experience. It's just not. "Smatter of fact, it can be downright uncomfortable, even unbearable.

It's not that women don't want a great experience... it's just that we don't get the great experience all that often. And too often, as long as the husband get's his great experience... then the fact that the wife is laying there unsatisfied is either ignored or perceived as "her" problem.

Generally, when a wife doesn't like or want sex, men look at this from the point of view that there is something wrong with her. It's better to look at it from the point of view that the sexual experience changes for women over time... and the couple needs to keep up with the changes.

Communication is the key here, but communicating these particular issues is hard. Women don't want to hurt their husband's feelings, making him feel as if he is a "bad performer"... but at the same time, the standard "missionary" isn't going to do much for the wife... especially after she's had a kid or two... has dried out... aged...

However, there are parts of a woman's anatomy that will give pleasure long after standard sex fails to do so. If a husband takes some time in the bedroom to talk, explore and experiment... he might be more than pleasantly surprised to find his wife will become much more interested.

Again, this is in a general way... some women really do get frigid...
...just not as many as men think.

 

[23Psalm]

Might be a clue here 23.... I noticed you did not say" i love my wife."

Speaking in generalities...
Women have needs too like knowing they are loved! Your post says a whole lot... Some times the lack of sex is because s/he is grumpy until the lights go out. One spouse can be putting the other down and not even knowing it.
I read your post as being totally self centered... Could be you posted at an off moment.. Not all us women are a like some of us enjoy sex also...

Reba,

I'm guilty of hasty generalizing and for that, I apologize. I know there are women that enjoy sex and intimacy and I know that sex is different for men and women. My opinion was based on a few reads here, and reading other books and the fact that when I talk to some single guys, they are terrified of marriage. I know men have to do their part. For the record, I'm not perfect and there are times when I annoy my wife and sex is out of the question. I know she is tired from work and would rather watch her favorite show or read than to have sex. But, I just can't understand how some women just don't have a desire at all. I'm all for following the Bible because it is clear on how a husband is suppose to treat his wife. Thanks for the outstanding feedback!

 

[farouk]

Might be a clue here 23.... I noticed you did not say" i love my wife."

Speaking in generalities...
Women have needs too like knowing they are loved! Your post says a whole lot... Some times the lack of sex is because s/he is grumpy until the lights go out. One spouse can be putting the other down and not even knowing it.
I read your post as being totally self centered... Could be you posted at an off moment.. Not all us women are a like some of us enjoy sex also...

To no one person in particular I would say that it's not a question merely of calculating, or 'getting', a certain level of frequency.

To my mind, the issue is affection. And if there is an ongoing affection — indeed, that deepens as the years go by — then this the basis for other things that result from it.

 

[Dreadpiratkevin]

This is what I don't understand about women, why would you want to deny your husband sex? Knowing that lack of sex, can lead to other things that can destroy a marriage.

I don't think that's a particularly selfish question, it's rather a good one. There are no doubt many reasons for women denying sex; power in the relationship, lack of attraction to their husband among them. Personally I think it's because most people completely mis-understand God's design for sex. God is the consummate engineer, His designs work on every level and picking out the obvious purposes for things and thinking that's all there is is a mistake. The primary purpose of sex within marriage is not pleasure or procreation. God made it pleasurable so that we would do it, but that's a side effect. The primary purpose is pair bonding. If you look at the biology of sex, the intricate hormonal reactions the take place in a long term sexual relationship you see an amazing design purpose built to create feelings of contentment and bonding. I'm not a biologist so I can't explain fully, but the male hormones released into the females body create within her a feeling of contentment and well being, and the whole process is designed to bond two people together permanently. The more frequently the bond is renewed, the more it engenders feelings of love and commitment to each other. That's why God commands married people to not abstain from sex for any length of time, it's meant to be the cement that holds a marriage together. That's also why multiple partners before marriage is such a bad idea, it weakens our bodies ability to form that bond.

This is why women who deny their husbands are making a tactical error. The longer you go between the weaker the bond, it's meant to be renewed frequently. Women who complain about their husbands being distant and inattentive and therefore deny them sex have the cause and effect reversed.

I know, I"m just another selfish male scheming for more sex, but hey, argue with the designer, I'm just a user.

 

[handy]

Dreadpriatekevin (and to the username!!!!),

You've spoken a lot of wisdom here. I think you're exactly right... And, being a woman I would surmise that, physical reasons excepted, most women who refuse to have sex with their husband are doing so to alienate the affection. Even when sex is uncomforatable, or if there are issues that arise because of past abuse or whatever reason why a woman might not want sex... a woman who is truly loving her husband will have sex just for that bond. I do qualify this with "most" women who refuse to have sex... there are reasons why a loving wife might shy away from sex... but, I would bet a Krispy Kreme Donut that the majority of women refusing sex are doing so in order to alienate affection, most often with getting a divorce as a goal... but not wanting to take the responsibility of being the 'bad guy' in the break up of the marriage.

When men refuse sex... and believe it or not there are men who do refuse sex to their wives... most often that has to do with either, he's having an affair or he's a closet homosexual. I've personally known a number of women who start out by complaining that their husband refuses to have sex... then next thing you know they are divorcing and he's off with another woman or he's "coming out".

 

[Dreadpiratkevin]

Dreadpriatekevin (and to the username!!!!),

You've spoken a lot of wisdom here. I think you're exactly right... And, being a woman I would surmise that, physical reasons excepted, most women who refuse to have sex with their husband are doing so to alienate the affection. Even when sex is uncomforatable, or if there are issues that arise because of past abuse or whatever reason why a woman might not want sex... a woman who is truly loving her husband will have sex just for that bond. I do qualify this with "most" women who refuse to have sex... there are reasons why a loving wife might shy away from sex... but, I would bet a Krispy Kreme Donut that the majority of women refusing sex are doing so in order to alienate affection, most often with getting a divorce as a goal... but not wanting to take the responsibility of being the 'bad guy' in the break up of the marriage.

When men refuse sex... and believe it or not there are men who do refuse sex to their wives... most often that has to do with either, he's having an affair or he's a closet homosexual. I've personally known a number of women who start out by complaining that their husband refuses to have sex... then next thing you know they are divorcing and he's off with another woman or he's "coming out".

Thank you, although I can't totally agree that most women do it to alienate affection, some may, but there are many who realistically think they can stay married, continue to enjoy all the benefits of being married, but never, or very infrequently have sex with their husbands. There are some examples on this thread I think. Why they think they can tear out the foundation and leave the structure standing I don't know, but they do. It's sad because at that point they are little more than roommates with a joint checking account. I think some of it may stem from a church that teaches that women's feelings are sacred, but men's desires are sinful.

I wish that more women understood that they could have all the emotional connection they want with thier husbands not for sex, but from it.

As for men that deny sex... no experience there!

 

[handy]

As a woman.... I can assure you that most women don't think that they can continue to deny their husbands sex and still "stay married [and] continue to enjoy all the benefits of being married..."

Even the thoughts expressed on this thread have a lot more going on behind them that are on the surface.

If a woman does love her husband and wants to stay married and is denying sex... then there is an underlying problem. It could be, as in Andy Bolester's case, a 10 month old baby who is sapping mom of all her energy. This isn't uncommon, but it's also pretty temporary. I never had babies, so I don't know first hand what post-partum hormonal changes, demands of a newborn, etc. etc. etc. does, but I've heard it can really sap the ole' sex drive... Andy's wife came through twice for him in 10 months... not a lot, but most likely a temporary situation and in due time things will pick up... (Here's hoping, Andy!!!)

However, if it's not a baby, it could be any number of the following issues:

Struggles with past sexual abuse (this is huge... I don't think there's a woman alive who has ever been abused sexually that hasn't had it impact her sexual relations with her husband... including yrs truly... I went into my marriage knowing that the past abuse would have an impact and so we were pretty proactive about it... which helped. But, a lot of women simply don't realize how much abuse in her past is going to mess up her enjoyment of sex with her husband.

Health issues... this really impacted my own marriage for a couple of years. We worked through it, but there for awhile, Steve was to be pitited because while I did what I could, I had some health issues that just made sex excruciating for a while. Again though, this was temporary and he understood that.

The man not understanding and changing to his wife's changing body. As I mentioned before on this thread, a woman's body really doesn't respond all that much to the "missionary" position... especially as she ages. Some guys just don't get the fact that they need to do much more to truly satify the wife. And, some guys, even nice Christian guys, don't even think satifying the wife is all that important. Little wonder that the wife eventually gives up on it.

Any of these issues might be contributing to why a woman refuses sex... and all are serious issues that need to be resolved. I think most couples do want to resolve these things.. but a lot of times, people aren't even fully aware of the root problems, and are too shy to really talk about it, even if they are. Needs to be done though... it's one thing when there is a disparity between couples as to "how much is enough" (that's an area for loving compromise)... but it's not healthy at all when it comes to denying sex altogether.

Anyone who thinks that they can deny their partner sex for the rest of the marriage will come to admit... if pressed.... they don't really want the marriage to last anyway.

I'm sorry that you seem to be in a church that is teaching that a woman's feelings are sacred but men's desires are sinful... you should challenge your church's leadership on that one. In all the churches I've ever been to, I've never heard that promoted at all. Is your church dominated by feminist women leaders?

 

[Dreadpiratkevin]

Anyone who thinks that they can deny their partner sex for the rest of the marriage will come to admit... if pressed.... they don't really want the marriage to last anyway.

I won't argue with that. I'm not such a fool as to think I know better how women think than a woman does. I have known couples in long term largely sexless marriages that didn't seem to be headed for divorce, but who really knows someone else's motivations? Few people fully understand their own. When I said I don't understand, I meant it. I'll leave it to your greater insight into women's minds.

I have 5 kids from 6 pregnancies over 23 years, so I'm intimately acquainted with what that does to a couples sex life. Also how a woman's body changes, although my wife would quite disagree about the missionary position point I think. Everyone is different, which is the wonder of it. The problem is when a temporary problem becomes a permanent excuse. And, not to be graphic, but there are many ways to express sexuality that don't involve intercourse. When people are motivated, a way can be found, and nothing motivates like sex. The point being that a physical disability needn't lead to a sexless marriage unless you want it to.

I think we can agree that there's a difference between a real physical or emotional issue that your dealing with in order to get your sex life back on track, and using the same as an excuse to just not do it because you really just don't want to, or as you say have another agenda.

I'm sorry that you seem to be in a church that is teaching that a woman's feelings are sacred but men's desires are sinful... you should challenge your church's leadership on that one. In all the churches I've ever been to, I've never heard that promoted at all. Is your church dominated by feminist women leaders?

My church is pretty much the opposite of feminized, which is why it's my church, and I am the leadership, or part of it. My observation was about Evangelicalism in general. I did not mean to say that sort of thing is overtly preached, but the message is there all the same in many, but not all churches. Let's not turn this into a debate about the feminization of modern evangelicalism, that's a great debate but off topic. Points to you though for being aware of it anyway, so few people recognize it, especially women.

 

[handy]

I won't argue with that. I'm not such a fool as to think I know better how women think than a woman does. I have known couples in long term largely sexless marriages that didn't seem to be headed for divorce, but who really knows someone else's motivations? Few people fully understand their own. When I said I don't understand, I meant it. I'll leave it to your greater insight into women's minds.

I have 5 kids from 6 pregnancies over 23 years, so I'm intimately acquainted with what that does to a couples sex life. Also how a woman's body changes, although my wife would quite disagree about the missionary position point I think. Everyone is different, which is the wonder of it. The problem is when a temporary problem becomes a permanent excuse. And, not to be graphic, but there are many ways to express sexuality that don't involve intercourse. When people are motivated, a way can be found, and nothing motivates like sex. The point being that a physical disability needn't lead to a sexless marriage unless you want it to.

I think we can agree that there's a difference between a real physical or emotional issue that your dealing with in order to get your sex life back on track, and using the same as an excuse to just not do it because you really just don't want to, or as you say have another agenda.



My church is pretty much the opposite of feminized, which is why it's my church, and I am the leadership, or part of it. My observation was about Evangelicalism in general. I did not mean to say that sort of thing is overtly preached, but the message is there all the same in many, but not all churches. Let's not turn this into a debate about the feminization of modern evangelicalism, that's a great debate but off topic. Points to you though for being aware of it anyway, so few people recognize it, especially women.

We're in agreement about almost everything here DPK...

As far as the feminization of modern evangelicalism... yeah... as someone who is more than a little aquainted with one of the more liberal churches (Evangelical Lutheran)... I'm fully aware of it. As it is off topic all I'll say here about it is that I'm glad the Lord led my husband away from it. Never was I more glad to be a submissive wife than when he decided to go the LCMS! ;)

 

[mariamaria]

I must be the only one with an understanding hubby. we often talk about my lack of interest, he knows I don't do it on purpose..I just don't often get the urge and he totally understands..Now that's what I call love

 

[Dreadpiratkevin]

I must be the only one with an understanding hubby. we often talk about my lack of interest, he knows I don't do it on purpose..I just don't often get the urge and he totally understands..Now that's what I call love

You may call it love, but I suspect your husband would use a different word to describe it. I don't think not doing it on purpose has any effect on his needs.
It's kind of like saying you didn't mean to not fix dinner. It doesn't effect how hungry he is.

There are two questions I'd like to ask you if you don't mind. Not to judge or attack you, that's not my place, but to help me understand so I can help other men in your husbands situation as it does come up fairly frequently. First: Do you think it's a lack of desire, or a lack of desire for him? My hunch is that in the vast majority of cases it's the later. If it's the former, why haven't you gone to a doctor?

Second:

Why do you need to feel the urge? You agreed to this when you married him, the Bible commands you not to deny your husband, it makes for a much healthier marriage, it will make your husband much, much happier, and it will bond him to you in a way that nothing else will. It is also the absolute best defense against falling into sexual sin like adultery or pornography for both of you.. Doesn't all that outweigh a few minutes of doing something you're not overly excited about?

Of, to put it another way, if you're husband is like most men he goes out every day and works and does things he really doesn't feel like doing 40+ hours a week to take care of you, doesn't that merit 30 minutes a week or less of you doing something you don't feel like doing? You talk about him loving you while describing the very definition of not loving him.

Or is Handy right and consciously or unconsciously you want out of the marriage but don't want to be the one to end it?

Ok, that was more than 2 questions, sorry. Please don't take this as an attack on you, it isn't meant to be. These are honest questions that I'd love to hear a woman's answers to. It is somewhat difficult as a man to not feel a little bit of frustrated empathy for your husband however.

One more, if I can get away with it: Do you understand that physiologically women and men are different in that, while men get aroused and then initiate sex, for most of their cycle (when not ovulating) women are the opposite, they have to initiate sex in order to feel aroused? If you always stop before you start you may never feel the urge. When it comes to sex, fake it till you make it is actually good advice.

Having counseled men in your husbands situation I can tell you there's only 2 possibilities for men in a sexless marriage: Either he's already getting his sexual gratification elsewhere (not necessarily another woman, porn is much more common) or he's been so badly emasculated he thinks he deserves to be miserable or has no choice, and so will suffer in silence for a time. Either way it's an unstable situation that seldom lasts long term. If I can stretch my analogy a bit further a structure with a broken foundation may stand for a while and even look good, but it cannot withstand any amount of stress without collapsing, sometimes quite suddenly and spectacularly.

 

[mariamaria]

You may call it love, but I suspect your husband would use a different word to describe it. I don't think not doing it on purpose has any effect on his needs.
It's kind of like saying you didn't mean to not fix dinner. It doesn't effect how hungry he is.

There are two questions I'd like to ask you if you don't mind. Not to judge or attack you, that's not my place, but to help me understand so I can help other men in your husbands situation as it does come up fairly frequently. First: Do you think it's a lack of desire, or a lack of desire for him? My hunch is that in the vast majority of cases it's the later. If it's the former, why haven't you gone to a doctor?

Second:

Why do you need to feel the urge? You agreed to this when you married him, the Bible commands you not to deny your husband, it makes for a much healthier marriage, it will make your husband much, much happier, and it will bond him to you in a way that nothing else will. It is also the absolute best defense against falling into sexual sin like adultery or pornography for both of you.. Doesn't all that outweigh a few minutes of doing something you're not overly excited about?

Of, to put it another way, if you're husband is like most men he goes out every day and works and does things he really doesn't feel like doing 40+ hours a week to take care of you, doesn't that merit 30 minutes a week or less of you doing something you don't feel like doing? You talk about him loving you while describing the very definition of not loving him.

Or is Handy right and consciously or unconsciously you want out of the marriage but don't want to be the one to end it?

Ok, that was more than 2 questions, sorry. Please don't take this as an attack on you, it isn't meant to be. These are honest questions that I'd love to hear a woman's answers to. It is somewhat difficult as a man to not feel a little bit of frustrated empathy for your husband however.

One more, if I can get away with it: Do you understand that physiologically women and men are different in that, while men get aroused and then initiate sex, for most of their cycle (when not ovulating) women are the opposite, they have to initiate sex in order to feel aroused? If you always stop before you start you may never feel the urge. When it comes to sex, fake it till you make it is actually good advice.

Having counseled men in your husbands situation I can tell you there's only 2 possibilities for men in a sexless marriage: Either he's already getting his sexual gratification elsewhere (not necessarily another woman, porn is much more common) or he's been so badly emasculated he thinks he deserves to be miserable or has no choice, and so will suffer in silence for a time. Either way it's an unstable situation that seldom lasts long term. If I can stretch my analogy a bit further a structure with a broken foundation may stand for a while and even look good, but it cannot withstand any amount of stress without collapsing, sometimes quite suddenly and spectacularly.

seriously? My marriage is not sexless it just doesn't happen often and he knew this years ago (17 years ago) and is still here. He has proved his love for me time and time again. I will not force myself to have sex when I am not in the mood, because I will not enjoy it and neither will he. we both know well enough that that is wrong. Having to go to work and having to have sex when you're not up to it is not the same..
No I don't want out of the marriage, I'm really happy and totally in love..I guess me and my hubby don't fit into any box people try and put us in, against all odds regardless of the lack of sex we love each other..we have been through deaths, trauma, upset and so much more, that's what makes you stronger not the frequency of sex .
If my hubby is suffering in silence then he's been doing so for 17 years but I can tell you that this isn't so as he is more open with me now about emotions ect then ever before..My husband knows I love him because of the many other things I do for him, I prove I love him on a daily basis and he often says he never has to question if I love him because it shows..
seriously, shame on you to think all men are the same! This man has proved you wrong and I'm proud of him for it!