from pre-trib to post-trib

[jasonc]

My church (The Vineyard), evolved from The Calvary Chapel, and they (CC) are pre-trib. Most Vineyards are post-trib. But our specific congregation is mostly "no-trib.".

that is my position. we had an admin here that held that and influenced me to that position. vic c. Lord I miss him

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm pre-trib.
Anyone wanna fight about it?

 

[jasonc]

I'm pre-trib.
Anyone wanna fight about it?

lol, your wrong. its no trib with a resurrection.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

lol, your wrong. its no trib with a resurrection.

Okay Jason, put up your dukes.

 

[jasonc]

Okay Jason, put up your dukes.

lol. I can if you want me to defend my position with scripture. care to indulge?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

lol. I can if you want me to defend my position with scripture. care to indulge?

I can't. I won't live long enough to convince you, so I'll use my gifts from God to do other things.
Meanwhile, I'm pre-trib.:yes

 

[jasonc]

I can't. I won't live long enough to convince you, so I'll use my gifts from God to do other things.
Meanwhile, I'm pre-trib.:yes

I was pre trib, not that long ago. reba remembers when I was that way and debated me as one where I am now

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I was pre trib, not that long ago. reba remembers when I was that way and debated me as one where I am now

I've been following the debates for 2 years here on the forum, and no one has convinced me to change sides.

 

[jasonc]

I've been following the debates for 2 years here on the forum, and no one has convinced me to change sides.

I wanted to know what the bible said without commentary and plainly said. I found futurism the farthest from that.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What is our hope?
Is it some day getting a new body?
One that will last forever without sin or pain?
Being with God forever?
Living forever?
Eternal life?
Happiness forever?

Now add a rapture to that, and our hope increases.
Tell someone there is no rapture, and our hope decreases.

God gives us hope.
Hope to keep going.
Hope to please God and win the prize.
Hope that what we believe in is real and will happen.

There is so much worldly science out there that tells us it's all make believe.
There is so much doubt right here on the forum that a person could lose their faith in their hope in God, if that were possible.

We don't need that.
What we need is to build each other up in our faith so that we can joyfully go out and share that faith with others, so that they can have the same joy and hope that we have.

So I say the rapture happens pre-trib.
If you believe it, then you have the same hope and joy that I have.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is so much doubt right here on the forum that a person could lose their faith in their hope in God, if that were possible.

You do read the Bible, right?

Why does Paul warn us in more than one place to not lose our faith if it's not possible to do that?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm pre-trib.
Anyone wanna fight about it?

I won't fight about it because it's not essential doctrine, but I started digging into all things 'end-times' in the Bible right after 911 and I was amazed that a pre-trib doctrine even existed.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You do read the Bible, right?

Why does Paul warn us in more than one place to not lose our faith if it's not possible to do that?

Matthew 24:24;

 

[jeff77]

That is probably VERY smart. I commend you for keeping your focus where it belongs.

Ok, but I feel like I am really behind on this topic. Before I came to CF.net I had never heard of "mid trib" or "post trib". All I ever heard about was just tribulation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Matthew 24:24;

Do you know why the elect can't be deceived at that time? Read it. And it ain't because they can't fail in their faith.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you know why the elect can't be deceived at that time? Read it. And it ain't because they can't fail in their faith.

I wrote "if it were possible".
Just delete that.
It doesn't need to be there to make my point.
It was not meant to be debated.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

My whole life I have always been a pre-trib guy, well simply because I was always taught that from family and modern day pastors, Perry Stone, John Hagee, Jack Van Impe were my main influences. However after taking someones advice on Christianforums.net, telling me to read the Bible open-minded instead of what you heard your whole life, I did this and came to the conclusion that there is no way there is a pre-trib rapture. First of all, Im a fairly new Christian, Ive always believed in God thanks to my Grandma keeping me involved, but never asked to be saved until this year. So as I started reading and studying the Good Book I came to the conclusion that there it's no pre-trib rapture, and it wasnt very hard to come to that conclusion. Mathew 24 29:31 Mark 13 24:37 and Luke 21 confirmed it for me, as it is lined up perfectly in Revelation, when you see the moon and sun darken and the stars fall, you know that the time is near, its undisputable. If you read the Bible right out tells you these things have to happen before he comes. If you get this than Revelation is very easy to understand. The pre-tribbers always use the thief in the night part of scripture to justify their cause but i believe that scripture is for the unbelievers. Alot of pre-tribbers will read Mark 13 32:37 and come to their conclusion without reading the full message which is 24:37. Also when we come to this conclusion Revelation 4:1 makes no sense as being a rapture. First of all Jesus never descended or a trumpet was never blown, it just says his VOICE was that of a trumpet. There was never a gathering in Revelation 4:1. John was the only one that went up. Another thing i noticed was that John went up in spirit, which seemed odd. When God calls us up we will be in bodily form and we will be changed into our glorious bodies when we go up. Another thing that caught me off was that, if he went to Heaven why did he come back? I think when he went up in spirit, he literally just went up in spirit to tell about things hereafter as stated in Revelation 4:1. Have you ever said i wasnt there but i was there in spirit? Well i believe this is literally the same thing. If he was there in spirit than he would of been dead, just like the spirits when opening the 5th seal in Revelation, waiting for the rapture to be reunited with their bodies when they are raised from the dead. I also realized the full tribulation is not Gods wrath, Gods wrath starts at the 7th seal, and were out of here by then. The previous seals were man on man wars. Proof that being just read where the spirits under the alter were talking to Jesus asking him how much Longer until he brings Judgement on the earth, and he tells them to wait a little more season.

I know this is long but I always thought there was a pre-trib. And now after doing my own research and reading scripture with an open mind, it all makes sense. God Bless and Thanks for the good advice.

Donovb

After reading the above statement I thought that This! scripture would be for its context, ok? Revelation 1:1-20 on who we believe in. Oh! I was with Brother David Terrell, Do you know of him?

But here is: Revelation 1:1-20
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

But Jesus Christ said If! you would abide in him! , and his word abide in you! etc.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.