stovebolts
Member
- Nov 4, 2004
- 18,905
- 7,267
Orthodoxy,
Thank you for answering my questions and for showing restraint with Merry. Your actions speak volumes.
Since the topic is Fruit Detectors (and not the wacky ones :wink: ), then I'd just like to say a few things.
First of all, Orthodoxy, it joys my heart to see anyone that fervant and passionate for the Lord (and this applies to Heidi as well). Like I said earlier though (and this is just my opinion), we are all human beings here. We are all creatures of habit to one degree or another and the little rule of cause and effect applies. I believe Solomon wrote that we are not to insight anger amonst each other and in the NT, we are told to seek peace with everyone where we can. For myself, the question I ask myself is what must I do to make peace with those around me? The second question I ask myself is how much suffering must I endure to accomplish this and lastly, when do I kick the dust off my sandals and just walk away knowing that it's in God's hands?
You can take the meekest of animals and when you push them in a corner, the results are very predictable. They will bite back. When we seek to bite each other, then we must expect to be bit back. Again, we are only human, fallable and full of pride... Including myself. I ask you at this time to forgive me for the insults that I have spewn across your threads and it is my intent to not badger you, but to seek honest debate and reasoning.
I know that we do not understand scripture eye to eye and that's ok by me. I claim to know very little and what I do understand, I try to make it applicable in my daily living. This, is what I believe I have been called to do. You, you seem to be called to bring others into the Orthodox Church. That is fine with me. However, I always read the passage that you quoted earlier as applying to fallen brothers. It appears to me that you draw this line in the sand that says if your not Orthodox, then your not a Brother in Christ.
Now, the way I understand scripture is this. If one is a Brother in Christ, and he has fallen from the Church, then he is to be outcast after biblical means have been attempted. I will spare you what you already know here (Matthew 18, 1 Peter 3). One reason is so that he will not taint the rest of the Church, but more importantly, he is outcast so that he may be tried in his sins and learn repentance. At that point, it's in God's hands and his and the purpose is to bring him back into the fold. This, is where we are to disfellowship our Brother and treat him as a tax collector and heathen.
However, if one is not considered a Brother in Christ, then we are also called to treat them in a different manner than our fallen brother (Hebrews 12:14). Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it (john 3:17) If we are to be Christ like, then we should not condemn the world either IMHO.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
We can loose our heavenly salvation; this is clear in scripture. I believe that this is because we are all fallable and can become the tool of Satan. As cj has said before, there can be truth / light, without life. I think myself as a fool in many areas for I do not wish to deceive myself nor be deceived. Try as I might, I am fallable.
Our walk with God includes indurance and longevity. I believe that salvation is found daily in Christ and we must examine ourselves daily. But what do we measure ourselves with? Personally, I use the fruits of the Spirit as a guideline and allow the Holy Spirit to convict me in the areas that I am lacking.
In summary, I believe that if you are my Brother in Christ, then I have the duty to treat you as a heathen (as a last resort) so that you might find the fullness of Christ. If I do not consider you as my Brother in Christ, I have no right (and I find no biblical support) to treat you as a heathen or Tax Collector. At this point, it's all about endurance, self control, long suffering and knowing when to shake the dirt off my feet.
I hope that in the future, we can all abide by these simple concepts and I encourage anyone to add, or correct me where I err in kindness.
Thank you for answering my questions and for showing restraint with Merry. Your actions speak volumes.
Since the topic is Fruit Detectors (and not the wacky ones :wink: ), then I'd just like to say a few things.
First of all, Orthodoxy, it joys my heart to see anyone that fervant and passionate for the Lord (and this applies to Heidi as well). Like I said earlier though (and this is just my opinion), we are all human beings here. We are all creatures of habit to one degree or another and the little rule of cause and effect applies. I believe Solomon wrote that we are not to insight anger amonst each other and in the NT, we are told to seek peace with everyone where we can. For myself, the question I ask myself is what must I do to make peace with those around me? The second question I ask myself is how much suffering must I endure to accomplish this and lastly, when do I kick the dust off my sandals and just walk away knowing that it's in God's hands?
You can take the meekest of animals and when you push them in a corner, the results are very predictable. They will bite back. When we seek to bite each other, then we must expect to be bit back. Again, we are only human, fallable and full of pride... Including myself. I ask you at this time to forgive me for the insults that I have spewn across your threads and it is my intent to not badger you, but to seek honest debate and reasoning.
I know that we do not understand scripture eye to eye and that's ok by me. I claim to know very little and what I do understand, I try to make it applicable in my daily living. This, is what I believe I have been called to do. You, you seem to be called to bring others into the Orthodox Church. That is fine with me. However, I always read the passage that you quoted earlier as applying to fallen brothers. It appears to me that you draw this line in the sand that says if your not Orthodox, then your not a Brother in Christ.
Now, the way I understand scripture is this. If one is a Brother in Christ, and he has fallen from the Church, then he is to be outcast after biblical means have been attempted. I will spare you what you already know here (Matthew 18, 1 Peter 3). One reason is so that he will not taint the rest of the Church, but more importantly, he is outcast so that he may be tried in his sins and learn repentance. At that point, it's in God's hands and his and the purpose is to bring him back into the fold. This, is where we are to disfellowship our Brother and treat him as a tax collector and heathen.
However, if one is not considered a Brother in Christ, then we are also called to treat them in a different manner than our fallen brother (Hebrews 12:14). Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it (john 3:17) If we are to be Christ like, then we should not condemn the world either IMHO.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
We can loose our heavenly salvation; this is clear in scripture. I believe that this is because we are all fallable and can become the tool of Satan. As cj has said before, there can be truth / light, without life. I think myself as a fool in many areas for I do not wish to deceive myself nor be deceived. Try as I might, I am fallable.
Our walk with God includes indurance and longevity. I believe that salvation is found daily in Christ and we must examine ourselves daily. But what do we measure ourselves with? Personally, I use the fruits of the Spirit as a guideline and allow the Holy Spirit to convict me in the areas that I am lacking.
In summary, I believe that if you are my Brother in Christ, then I have the duty to treat you as a heathen (as a last resort) so that you might find the fullness of Christ. If I do not consider you as my Brother in Christ, I have no right (and I find no biblical support) to treat you as a heathen or Tax Collector. At this point, it's all about endurance, self control, long suffering and knowing when to shake the dirt off my feet.
I hope that in the future, we can all abide by these simple concepts and I encourage anyone to add, or correct me where I err in kindness.
