Blazin Bones
Member
Do you think Church should do fundraisers? What Has your church done in the past?
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Fundraiser and the church...
- Thread starter Blazin Bones
- Start date
A
Aslan
Guest
What do you mean by fundraising? Do you mean raising money other than the offering?
Blazin Bones
Member
In short, yes.
R
RockoFaith
Guest
Fund Raising is Fun Raising...
Deplorable eh?
Tell that to Jesus!
Luke 8:1-3
Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, 2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.
Unless people understand that the kingdom of God cannot be advanced unless people give to those doing the advancing...the Word of God isn't going to go anywhere.
I can see how fund raising get's a negative stereotype from the way you'll see some of these televangelists do it...but in all reality it takes millions of dollars to get the Gospel taken all over the world, especially through television. Unless people ask for money...who's going to give it?
The Bible says, ask and ye shall receive. If you don't give, someone else will....God provides the funds, but it's always through those who are obedient to His will.
Jesus asked us to pray for laborers because the harvest is plentiful and the laborers are few. So as He puts it on the hearts of those to give their lives to preach the Gospel...it's our responsibility to provide them the means to do so.
Romans 10:14 says - how will they hear without a preacher and how will they preach unless they are sent.
Of course, we're not all able to give our lives full time to preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth as Christ commanded us in Matt. 28:18-20...but for those whose He's commissioned to do that must be supported by those in the business world who have the money to give to them, so that they can do what God's calling them to do.
You can't serve God and money at the same time...because when God's given you increase in finances and you don't invest it in the advancement of His kingdom, but save it for yourself...God will take away what you've got and give it to someone who does know how to use the money they've been given wisely. God only asks for 10%...but it all belongs to Him. One of the weirdest kingdom principles that goes against everything the world teaches is that when you give, and give out of your need not out of your abundance...you will receive 30,60 and even 100 fold. Of course, you'll always want to offer it up in prayer and get peace about it...that you're giving to advance God's kingdom. Even if it turns out to be a scam, God will reward you for giving from your heart.
God allows certain evils and poverty in this world to move us to compassion to give of our resources so that these people will be taken care of. If everyone was well off...we'd all be doing our own thing and not displaying our love for one another by giving from our needs to supply theirs.
Fund Raising is not deplorable...but the people who do it wrong, may be.
Even Jesus with all the riches in heaven and the ability to create a literal "money tree" relied on the support and material goods from those whom He ministered to. Of course, if someone is fund raising just to spend that money on their own desires and it isn't ultimately going to the cause of spreading the Gospel...I would question it.
James said that faith without works is dead. If someone comes up to you and tells you they desire to change the world for Christ and they're raising money to help them accomplish this...since that's how they will make their livelihood, and you say "be warm, be fed"...or whatever...what use is that? If you don't give them the means that they need to get the job done, you will be held accountable for that in front of Christ, when He asks you why you didn't give to advance His kingdom.
Deplorable eh?
Tell that to Jesus!
Luke 8:1-3
Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him, 2 and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and sicknesses: Mary who was called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others who were contributing to their support out of their private means.
Unless people understand that the kingdom of God cannot be advanced unless people give to those doing the advancing...the Word of God isn't going to go anywhere.
I can see how fund raising get's a negative stereotype from the way you'll see some of these televangelists do it...but in all reality it takes millions of dollars to get the Gospel taken all over the world, especially through television. Unless people ask for money...who's going to give it?
The Bible says, ask and ye shall receive. If you don't give, someone else will....God provides the funds, but it's always through those who are obedient to His will.
Jesus asked us to pray for laborers because the harvest is plentiful and the laborers are few. So as He puts it on the hearts of those to give their lives to preach the Gospel...it's our responsibility to provide them the means to do so.
Romans 10:14 says - how will they hear without a preacher and how will they preach unless they are sent.
Of course, we're not all able to give our lives full time to preaching the gospel to the ends of the earth as Christ commanded us in Matt. 28:18-20...but for those whose He's commissioned to do that must be supported by those in the business world who have the money to give to them, so that they can do what God's calling them to do.
You can't serve God and money at the same time...because when God's given you increase in finances and you don't invest it in the advancement of His kingdom, but save it for yourself...God will take away what you've got and give it to someone who does know how to use the money they've been given wisely. God only asks for 10%...but it all belongs to Him. One of the weirdest kingdom principles that goes against everything the world teaches is that when you give, and give out of your need not out of your abundance...you will receive 30,60 and even 100 fold. Of course, you'll always want to offer it up in prayer and get peace about it...that you're giving to advance God's kingdom. Even if it turns out to be a scam, God will reward you for giving from your heart.
God allows certain evils and poverty in this world to move us to compassion to give of our resources so that these people will be taken care of. If everyone was well off...we'd all be doing our own thing and not displaying our love for one another by giving from our needs to supply theirs.
Fund Raising is not deplorable...but the people who do it wrong, may be.
Even Jesus with all the riches in heaven and the ability to create a literal "money tree" relied on the support and material goods from those whom He ministered to. Of course, if someone is fund raising just to spend that money on their own desires and it isn't ultimately going to the cause of spreading the Gospel...I would question it.
James said that faith without works is dead. If someone comes up to you and tells you they desire to change the world for Christ and they're raising money to help them accomplish this...since that's how they will make their livelihood, and you say "be warm, be fed"...or whatever...what use is that? If you don't give them the means that they need to get the job done, you will be held accountable for that in front of Christ, when He asks you why you didn't give to advance His kingdom.
B
Brother Ian
Guest
The church do fundraisers? Generally no. Youth for a ski trip? Absolutely.
I have an issue with fundraising for a ski trip too. The church is not a country club. The focus of a church should be all about God, not about ski trips. What is this teaching our youth? A youth director may say "it attracks youth to our church so it is an evangelism tool". However, I feel if it takes offering ski trips, etc. to get people to come, then it is better they do not come because they are defiling the house of God. What is the point of coming to church just for a ski trip and fun activities? The whole point of church has been missed. I have no problem with fun youth activities in the church community, but what sort of witness do you think this gives the community at large when the kids are raising money to go on a ski trip? I think it would be a lot better witness and a much better teaching tool for the youth for them to give to the community rather than selfishly take from the community. Why not let the youth put on a program for residents in a nursing home, go play with kids in a children's home, go help do some chores for the homebound elderly, etc. These are very rewarding experiences and they teach the youth to have a more Christ centered heart. Our time with the youth in the church is very very limited so we need to maximize that time as much as we can not waste the time with selfish and unBiblical fundraising. We are Christians who must challenge one another to be the best we can be so I do not say these words to put you down but to encourage you to rethink and refocus on the purpose of the youth in the church in regards to teaching them their purpose in serving God.
B
Brother Ian
Guest
You have assumed much. The question was about fundraisers. When the youth have an activity that is mostly for fun and not outreach, then they shold be responsible for raising whatever is needed for them to participate.
The youth at my church are involved in much of the outreach you mentioned including nursing home visitation, carnivals, church work days, and soulwinning.
The generation that is targeted in the youth group needs something to pull them away from the things they are involved in outside of the church. There is nothing wrong with having activities that will draw them to the church so they can be taught the life saving truths of God's Word. The church is for preparing the people to do the work of the ministry. Youth are ministry too.
The youth at my church are involved in much of the outreach you mentioned including nursing home visitation, carnivals, church work days, and soulwinning.
The generation that is targeted in the youth group needs something to pull them away from the things they are involved in outside of the church. There is nothing wrong with having activities that will draw them to the church so they can be taught the life saving truths of God's Word. The church is for preparing the people to do the work of the ministry. Youth are ministry too.
L
Lyric's Dad
Guest
If the evangelical churches would not deny the importance of the tithe and actually contribute to the cause instead of coming up with excuses to horde their money fundraisers would not be necessarry.
G
gingercat
Guest
Lyric's Dad said:
Oh, how so true, LD, 10% of our income is the least we should offer to the Lord's work. Chruches are so afraid of losing their members that they hardly ever talk about our responsibilities of giving.
If that is the problem, then churches need to examine which is worse: 1) addressing the Biblical responsibility of Christian tithing or 2) guiding people in a very unBiblical direction of being "money changers" in the church
which is the one thing that got Jesus angry. Jesus did not get angry about being cruelly beaten and crucified. Instead, he felt pity and forgiveness for the lost souls. But money changers, He had no pity for. He drove them OUT of the church. Churches should consider which direction they want to lead their people.
Personally, every church I ever attended in America, I always heard messages on tithing, but in Japan I never do so I wonder how the churches remain standing here as so many people just drop coins in the offering plate. Anyway, back to the US, I know not all churches teach tithing, I just happened to have gone to fundamental churches that stuck to Biblical truths not popular theology.
Finally, I don't think all blame can be put on churches. As Christians in free lands, we have access to the TRUTH, the Bible. We can read for ourselves and know right from wrong. The church should just be there reinforcing and encouraging us. We have to take responsibilty for ourselves. No one in free countries can place full blame on the church when they have their own Bibles.
which is the one thing that got Jesus angry. Jesus did not get angry about being cruelly beaten and crucified. Instead, he felt pity and forgiveness for the lost souls. But money changers, He had no pity for. He drove them OUT of the church. Churches should consider which direction they want to lead their people.
Personally, every church I ever attended in America, I always heard messages on tithing, but in Japan I never do so I wonder how the churches remain standing here as so many people just drop coins in the offering plate. Anyway, back to the US, I know not all churches teach tithing, I just happened to have gone to fundamental churches that stuck to Biblical truths not popular theology.
Finally, I don't think all blame can be put on churches. As Christians in free lands, we have access to the TRUTH, the Bible. We can read for ourselves and know right from wrong. The church should just be there reinforcing and encouraging us. We have to take responsibilty for ourselves. No one in free countries can place full blame on the church when they have their own Bibles.
G
gingercat
Guest
Personally, every church I ever attended in America, I always heard messages on tithing, but in Japan I never do so I wonder how the churches remain standing here as so many people just drop coins in the offering plate. Anyway, back to the US, I know not all churches teach tithing, I just happened to have gone to fundamental churches that stuck to Biblical truths not popular theology.paisley said:
Pastors have responsibilities to lead their chuches to be obedient to the Lord; which most of them are vastly neglecting to do.
K
Kefka
Guest
Ugh, there are so many generalisations in this topic.
Anyway, I do believe it should be allowed... what's wrong with it? It's not like the church is forcing you to give money, and LD... I personally found that statement to be judgemental and in most cases untrue. When you run a church, then a statement like that will be slightly more justified. If you DO run a church, then you should be a little more understanding of circumstances different than yours.
What do you think, Tim?
Anyway, I do believe it should be allowed... what's wrong with it? It's not like the church is forcing you to give money, and LD... I personally found that statement to be judgemental and in most cases untrue. When you run a church, then a statement like that will be slightly more justified. If you DO run a church, then you should be a little more understanding of circumstances different than yours.
What do you think, Tim?
What is wrong with fundraising? Here are a few ideas:
1) It teaches Christians that in order to give they need to expect something in return. For example, help our youth go to Disney Land by buying these yummy cookies that you can enjoy. Or help us build a gym by paying $10 for a super duper car wash. This is about buying a good or service.
2) The church is not a business, but when we enter into sales, we make it a business which technically should make it lose its tax free status or at least make people question whether the church should remain tax free or not. Churches should be conscience of this in my opinion. Those who participate in fundraisers put all churches at risk of losing their tax free status.
3) Most importantly, Matthew 21:12-13
" And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. "
4) We are to be lights on a hill. What does this say to the unbelieving community when we go ringing their doorbell asking them to buy a calendar so our youth group can go camping. The message is the church is all about money and hypocrits. God tells us to be "blameless" why should we put ourselves in any questionable position? If selling will make anyone question our motives then we should stay away from it because we are not representing ourselves. We are representing our Holy God and to risk HIS reputation by our actions is not right especially if it is something so selfish like wanting to go on a trip. I have heard that money is the number one cause of divorce so if you think fundraising is not a big deal, I will say look at the divorce rate in America. If money can split up marriages with children involved, then it will definitely cause trouble in a church. We need to keep our hands clean.
5) It teaches our children wrong. We need to teach our children to be resourceful and content with what they have. So if we need new carpeting in the church but there is not enough money in the budget, we need to bring this need forward in a church meeting not in the service where visitors and nonBelievers are who might get the wrong impression about asking for money. We should bring the need before the "family" of believers and discuss what to do. People could take up a special offering then or money could be transferred from some other part of the church fund, or the church could actually wait until they have enough money to make the purchase, this is wise. Teaching our children to wait is not a bad thing.
6) Going out and soliciting money from people who are not even in the church is wrong. It is just selfish. Besides, we don't know where their money has come from. We don't know if it is dirty money or not. I think as Christians we should care where the money comes from. I think we should only present God with clean money. God is too righteous and holy to just be presented with money from any source, of but wait, this money is not going to God most of the time is it, it is going for our earthly lusts.
7) A lot of the fundraising is more human centered than God centered. It for human desires.
8) Fundraising loses sight of God's purpose. Jesus never sent His disciples out fundraising and He certainly did not do that either so we need to follow His example not our lusts. Think of instead of using all that time and effort trying to raise money, the congregation used the time and effort praying for the sick, witnessing to people, reaching out to the hurting? Don't you think that would be a much more purposeful course of action? If someone just cares about money, then if all that time was spent reaching souls, it would bring in more people to the church which would bring in more money, but hopefully my brothers and sister would not be money motivated in their Christian service.
9) Do we really want people to run and hide when they see the Christians coming because "they are hitting us up for money again"? Is that the reputation we want to give to the church? I used to live in an apartment complex where the JW would visit routinely. After a visit it was like a chain of telephone calls to the next door to not open the door because the JW were there. I don't want my Christian name associated with fundraising. All it takes is one bad experience to ruin a reputation. Also, all it takes is for one salesman to say the wrong thing. For example, take a zealous new Christian who takes the opportunity to witness as they give a sales pitch. The person behind the door may get the impression that this person is saying you have to buy my product and then sell yourself in order to get to heaven or they may just be turned off by the whole thing all together. We need to have one focus. Either sell products or share Christ. We can't mix the two without someone getting the wrong message. So in order to prevent mixed messages, we could tell our congregation, "just sell, don't witness". What sort of a message is that!
10) What about church lotteries and raffles, then we turn around and teach that gambling is wrong?
11) What about the pressure it puts on members in the church like the senior citizens who are on a fixed income, one income families trying to raise children, or the unemployed? These people probably have already given all they can so why pressure them for more? This is not good. Think about the widow and her 2 mites, she gave all she had and then what if she went in the church and they gave this guilt trip of how people should give more by buying this or that?
12) Are we really so lazy as Christians that we must depend on people outside our church to support the work God has given us to do?
1) It teaches Christians that in order to give they need to expect something in return. For example, help our youth go to Disney Land by buying these yummy cookies that you can enjoy. Or help us build a gym by paying $10 for a super duper car wash. This is about buying a good or service.
2) The church is not a business, but when we enter into sales, we make it a business which technically should make it lose its tax free status or at least make people question whether the church should remain tax free or not. Churches should be conscience of this in my opinion. Those who participate in fundraisers put all churches at risk of losing their tax free status.
3) Most importantly, Matthew 21:12-13
" And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. "
4) We are to be lights on a hill. What does this say to the unbelieving community when we go ringing their doorbell asking them to buy a calendar so our youth group can go camping. The message is the church is all about money and hypocrits. God tells us to be "blameless" why should we put ourselves in any questionable position? If selling will make anyone question our motives then we should stay away from it because we are not representing ourselves. We are representing our Holy God and to risk HIS reputation by our actions is not right especially if it is something so selfish like wanting to go on a trip. I have heard that money is the number one cause of divorce so if you think fundraising is not a big deal, I will say look at the divorce rate in America. If money can split up marriages with children involved, then it will definitely cause trouble in a church. We need to keep our hands clean.
5) It teaches our children wrong. We need to teach our children to be resourceful and content with what they have. So if we need new carpeting in the church but there is not enough money in the budget, we need to bring this need forward in a church meeting not in the service where visitors and nonBelievers are who might get the wrong impression about asking for money. We should bring the need before the "family" of believers and discuss what to do. People could take up a special offering then or money could be transferred from some other part of the church fund, or the church could actually wait until they have enough money to make the purchase, this is wise. Teaching our children to wait is not a bad thing.
6) Going out and soliciting money from people who are not even in the church is wrong. It is just selfish. Besides, we don't know where their money has come from. We don't know if it is dirty money or not. I think as Christians we should care where the money comes from. I think we should only present God with clean money. God is too righteous and holy to just be presented with money from any source, of but wait, this money is not going to God most of the time is it, it is going for our earthly lusts.
7) A lot of the fundraising is more human centered than God centered. It for human desires.
8) Fundraising loses sight of God's purpose. Jesus never sent His disciples out fundraising and He certainly did not do that either so we need to follow His example not our lusts. Think of instead of using all that time and effort trying to raise money, the congregation used the time and effort praying for the sick, witnessing to people, reaching out to the hurting? Don't you think that would be a much more purposeful course of action? If someone just cares about money, then if all that time was spent reaching souls, it would bring in more people to the church which would bring in more money, but hopefully my brothers and sister would not be money motivated in their Christian service.
9) Do we really want people to run and hide when they see the Christians coming because "they are hitting us up for money again"? Is that the reputation we want to give to the church? I used to live in an apartment complex where the JW would visit routinely. After a visit it was like a chain of telephone calls to the next door to not open the door because the JW were there. I don't want my Christian name associated with fundraising. All it takes is one bad experience to ruin a reputation. Also, all it takes is for one salesman to say the wrong thing. For example, take a zealous new Christian who takes the opportunity to witness as they give a sales pitch. The person behind the door may get the impression that this person is saying you have to buy my product and then sell yourself in order to get to heaven or they may just be turned off by the whole thing all together. We need to have one focus. Either sell products or share Christ. We can't mix the two without someone getting the wrong message. So in order to prevent mixed messages, we could tell our congregation, "just sell, don't witness". What sort of a message is that!
10) What about church lotteries and raffles, then we turn around and teach that gambling is wrong?
11) What about the pressure it puts on members in the church like the senior citizens who are on a fixed income, one income families trying to raise children, or the unemployed? These people probably have already given all they can so why pressure them for more? This is not good. Think about the widow and her 2 mites, she gave all she had and then what if she went in the church and they gave this guilt trip of how people should give more by buying this or that?
12) Are we really so lazy as Christians that we must depend on people outside our church to support the work God has given us to do?
K
Kefka
Guest
So as long as it has to do with a church, people can't help financially if they get something in return? Doesn't it teach christians that if they want results, they'll have to work for them? For example:
Help our youth go to disney land by buying some of these cookies that they worked hard to make, or be one of the people to donate bottles after the youth have been going door to door all day in the blazing heat.
It's called christians helping out christians, my church is like a family... if the youth are wanting to go on a trip the whole church will pitch in to help, when the youth have a fundraiser... it's more like a party. People come, they enjoy themselves and they buy things (proceeds go towards said trip) and they have the oppotunity to donate freely. Tell me, does that sound sinister to you?
People need to stop focusing on the religious aspect of things, they look and they say "Some church that is, they're supposed to be God's children and look at them asking for money!" That's looking at it religiously. In my opinion, when God looks down and sees the youth not only working together, but working with christians and non-christians in order to get done what needs to be done, he probably smiles.
Help our youth go to disney land by buying some of these cookies that they worked hard to make, or be one of the people to donate bottles after the youth have been going door to door all day in the blazing heat.
It's called christians helping out christians, my church is like a family... if the youth are wanting to go on a trip the whole church will pitch in to help, when the youth have a fundraiser... it's more like a party. People come, they enjoy themselves and they buy things (proceeds go towards said trip) and they have the oppotunity to donate freely. Tell me, does that sound sinister to you?
People need to stop focusing on the religious aspect of things, they look and they say "Some church that is, they're supposed to be God's children and look at them asking for money!" That's looking at it religiously. In my opinion, when God looks down and sees the youth not only working together, but working with christians and non-christians in order to get done what needs to be done, he probably smiles.
I am sorry Kefka but I just can not agree at all. For one thing, you mentioned going door to door. Door to door anything usually makes people skeptical and is often a big turn off. Is it worth turning one person off so the youth can go on a trip? Is it worth risking one soul going to hell so someone can go down a waterslide? I don't think so. I do believe we need to work, but if the youth want to go on a trip, they should work at McDonalds, mow lawns (but not in the name of the church), clean houses, babysit, and save their own money to go but do not link that money with sales from the church. In other words, they should get a regular job like the rest of society that wants to go on a trip or the parents could just pay for it out of their own pockets, but raising money in the church is just plain wrong.
"So as long as it has to do with a church, people can't help financially if they get something in return?" My point is, Christians should give without expecting anything in return. We should not let our left hand know what our right hand is doing. If we put money in the offering plate, do we expect to receive a nice hotel stay if we give a lot or a bag of candy if we give a little? Should we expect to get our picture in the paper and a ribbon of recognition if we give to a Christian charity? No, we just give and expect nothing in return other than the blessing and joy of being able to give. I think this is what we should teach our children.
"Doesn't it teach christians that if they want results, they'll have to work for them?" Yes in a way it does, but as Christians we really must carefully guide our youth in knowing the right things to work for and the proper way to work for them. As I said in my last posting, there are too many reasons that a church should not be teaching the youth to be fundraising in the name of GOD for the purpose of a trip. The youth can still go on a trip but the money should come out of their own pockets or the pockets of their parents or anyone else that just wants to pay but has not been pressured or solicited. I am not against Christian retreats of any kind. I am just against fundraising in the church.
"when the youth have a fundraiser... it's more like a party. People come, they enjoy themselves and they buy things (proceeds go towards said trip) and they have the oppotunity to donate freely. Tell me, does that sound sinister to you? "
No, it does not sound sinister, but nor did it sound sinister for Eve to eat from the fruit of knowledge. Satan made it sound quite enticing. Most sin does not sound sinister. Most sin can be painted and packaged to look rather innocent, but the fact is sin is sin no matter how it looks or sounds. And if fundraising gives the wrong impression to anyone inside or outside the church, then it is wrong, and I can assure that fundraising has the potential to make the motive of Christians and the church questionable. Let's rise above this and not ask people to buy things from us or give us money. Lets just pay for our trips out of our own pockets and give the love of Christ freely, then no one can find any cause to accuse us and this is where we called to be "blameless".
""Some church that is, they're supposed to be God's children and look at them asking for money!" That's looking at it religiously. In my opinion, when God looks down and sees the youth not only working together, but working with christians and non-christians in order to get done what needs to be done, he probably smiles."
No, I don't think He smiles when people use His name to sale things to buy a carpet or more commonly go on a trip. Especially when Christians go to nonChristians and ask them to help fund their trip. This is not looking at it religiously. This is looking at it just the way it looks, and that is a church is asking for money so some kids can go on a trip. If they are having financial problems, this might make them bitter. If they have experienced a hardship like the loss of a loved one to an expensive disease, experienced a national disaster, or have travelled and have seen poverty, they may wonder why you are raising money for yourself rather than raising it for those in real need. These are legitimate questions to ask. And as Christians we must remember that we are being watched and our behaviors are being more carefully scrutinized than the rest of society so we have an obligation to God to be as blameless as possible. Finally I am not convinced that raising money for a fun trip is something that Christians and nonChristians need to work together on "in order to get done what needs to be done". I am not convinced that that is what "needs to be done". And I certainly don't think you can convince the majority of nonChristians that it is. So I don't think fundraising is making God smile nor do I think it is something that when we get to Heaven He will say "well done My good and faithful servant, well done".
"So as long as it has to do with a church, people can't help financially if they get something in return?" My point is, Christians should give without expecting anything in return. We should not let our left hand know what our right hand is doing. If we put money in the offering plate, do we expect to receive a nice hotel stay if we give a lot or a bag of candy if we give a little? Should we expect to get our picture in the paper and a ribbon of recognition if we give to a Christian charity? No, we just give and expect nothing in return other than the blessing and joy of being able to give. I think this is what we should teach our children.
"Doesn't it teach christians that if they want results, they'll have to work for them?" Yes in a way it does, but as Christians we really must carefully guide our youth in knowing the right things to work for and the proper way to work for them. As I said in my last posting, there are too many reasons that a church should not be teaching the youth to be fundraising in the name of GOD for the purpose of a trip. The youth can still go on a trip but the money should come out of their own pockets or the pockets of their parents or anyone else that just wants to pay but has not been pressured or solicited. I am not against Christian retreats of any kind. I am just against fundraising in the church.
"when the youth have a fundraiser... it's more like a party. People come, they enjoy themselves and they buy things (proceeds go towards said trip) and they have the oppotunity to donate freely. Tell me, does that sound sinister to you? "
No, it does not sound sinister, but nor did it sound sinister for Eve to eat from the fruit of knowledge. Satan made it sound quite enticing. Most sin does not sound sinister. Most sin can be painted and packaged to look rather innocent, but the fact is sin is sin no matter how it looks or sounds. And if fundraising gives the wrong impression to anyone inside or outside the church, then it is wrong, and I can assure that fundraising has the potential to make the motive of Christians and the church questionable. Let's rise above this and not ask people to buy things from us or give us money. Lets just pay for our trips out of our own pockets and give the love of Christ freely, then no one can find any cause to accuse us and this is where we called to be "blameless".
""Some church that is, they're supposed to be God's children and look at them asking for money!" That's looking at it religiously. In my opinion, when God looks down and sees the youth not only working together, but working with christians and non-christians in order to get done what needs to be done, he probably smiles."
No, I don't think He smiles when people use His name to sale things to buy a carpet or more commonly go on a trip. Especially when Christians go to nonChristians and ask them to help fund their trip. This is not looking at it religiously. This is looking at it just the way it looks, and that is a church is asking for money so some kids can go on a trip. If they are having financial problems, this might make them bitter. If they have experienced a hardship like the loss of a loved one to an expensive disease, experienced a national disaster, or have travelled and have seen poverty, they may wonder why you are raising money for yourself rather than raising it for those in real need. These are legitimate questions to ask. And as Christians we must remember that we are being watched and our behaviors are being more carefully scrutinized than the rest of society so we have an obligation to God to be as blameless as possible. Finally I am not convinced that raising money for a fun trip is something that Christians and nonChristians need to work together on "in order to get done what needs to be done". I am not convinced that that is what "needs to be done". And I certainly don't think you can convince the majority of nonChristians that it is. So I don't think fundraising is making God smile nor do I think it is something that when we get to Heaven He will say "well done My good and faithful servant, well done".
K
Kefka
Guest
Well I feel that I should set this straight:
When did we start talking about selling cookies in the name of God? I highly doubt that any church uses God's name to fundraise, but I KNOW my church doesn't. As far as I was aware, the topic was about fundraising in the church... or for church events. That's what my argument was about.
But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree my good sir 8-)
When did we start talking about selling cookies in the name of God? I highly doubt that any church uses God's name to fundraise, but I KNOW my church doesn't. As far as I was aware, the topic was about fundraising in the church... or for church events. That's what my argument was about.
But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree my good sir 8-)
When we sell anything in the church we are using God's name to make the sale whether we directly say it or not. When we go to someone's door and say "I am with XYZ church, and we are selling cookies (raffle tickets, car wash, yard sale items, calendars, spaghetti dinner, etc) to raise funds for a youth trip" when we connect that sell with a church then we are connecting it with God because supposedly that church is God's house. Can we separate God from the church when we make a sale? I don't think so, and I don't think the people we are soliciting are making that distinction either. Thus we are using God's name to make that sale and it is wrong. It is also wrong to fool ourselves into thinking it is right. So yes, we are still on topic about fundraising in the church.
K
Kefka
Guest
Just because someone mentally makes a connection, does not mean you are selling in the name of God. If you are a car salesman trying to sell a man a car, and he mentally connects the idea of car to Jeff Gordon... you still aren't selling him that car in the name of Jeff Gordon. If that were the case, nobody would be able to sell anything because of these mental connections... and if your doing something in the name of someone who isn't your God, that's borderline idolotry, and that's not good.
It's not like, "We are with Church XYZ selling cookies." It's like, "We are with Church XYZ selling cookies in order to do *activity*
Although we try to pursue deeper relationships with God, we are still separate. The church is not God, therefore it is not in the name of God. If I walked up to you and said that "It is God's will for you to buy these cookies, with the proceeds going towards our trip" THEN it would be in the name of God.
When the pastor says that church needs new carpets, it doesn't mean that God needs new carpets... if it can't be applied in all areas of life, how can you justify applying it to one?
It's not like, "We are with Church XYZ selling cookies." It's like, "We are with Church XYZ selling cookies in order to do *activity*
Although we try to pursue deeper relationships with God, we are still separate. The church is not God, therefore it is not in the name of God. If I walked up to you and said that "It is God's will for you to buy these cookies, with the proceeds going towards our trip" THEN it would be in the name of God.
When the pastor says that church needs new carpets, it doesn't mean that God needs new carpets... if it can't be applied in all areas of life, how can you justify applying it to one?