Gandhi - An eastern disciple of the Lord.

[Soma-Sight]

Perhaps Gandhi thought that parts of the Bible were nonsense? or mythologized?

Gandhi had a real problem reconciling the God of the OT....

Jealous God
Angry God
Baby killing God
Wrathful God
Exclusivistic God

With the God (Jesus) present on the Sermon of the Mount

Loving God
Peaceful God
Non - Violent God
Saviour God
Redeemer God

One theory reconcilling this apparent contradiction is as follows...

The "orders" the Israelites "supposedly" divinely recieved dealing with rape, pillaging, Jewish superiority, killing, violence were the EGO of the Jewish leaders and NOT the INTENT of an all Loving God.....

 

[bibleberean]

Perhaps Gandhi thought that parts of the Bible were nonsense? or mythologized?

Gandhi had a real problem reconciling the God of the OT....

Jealous God
Angry God
Baby killing God
Wrathful God
Exclusivistic God

With the God (Jesus) present on the Sermon of the Mount

Loving God
Peaceful God
Non - Violent God
Saviour God
Redeemer God

One theory reconcilling this apparent contradiction is as follows...

The "orders" the Israelites "supposedly" divinely recieved dealing with rape, pillaging, Jewish superiority, killing, violence were the EGO of the Jewish leaders and NOT the INTENT of an all Loving God.....

Well that theory is hogwash.

The God of the New Testament and the God of the Old Testament are the same God.

It is confused hereticks or non-believers that have a problem understanding this fact.

If that theory were true then no part of the bible can be trusted.

The Jesus of the NT would not be believable because He quoted from the entire OT to prove who He was.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

We have a choice. We can believe the bible or we can believe people who invent their own Jesus and their own doctrines.

 

[Solo]

As posted in another thread pertaining to Ghandi.

Ghandi himself knew that he did not accept Jesus as Savior based on the following:

Mahatma Ghandi acknowledged the inability of his religion to atone for sin. Despite his moral lifestyle and good works, he admitted,

"It is a constant torture to me that I am still so far from Him whom I know to be my very life and being. I know it is my own wretchedness and wickedness that keeps me from Him."

All works-based religions lead to futility and death. It is only in Jesus Christ that sinners can find forgiveness for their sins and deliverance from death and hell.

Excerpted from The Evidence Bible by Ray Comfort.

 

[Heidi]

Ghandi thought more of himself than he did of Christ. His sin of pride was so great that he will spend an eternity in hell that even someone who rapes and kills if he is honest and humble enough to admit his sins and ask for forgiveness for them will not do.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Ghandi thought more of himself than he did of Christ. His sin of pride was so great that he will spend an eternity in hell that even someone who rapes and kills if he is honest and humble enough to admit his sins and ask for forgiveness for them will not do.

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us
38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

 

[bibleberean]

Ghandi thought more of himself than he did of Christ. His sin of pride was so great that he will spend an eternity in hell that even someone who rapes and kills if he is honest and humble enough to admit his sins and ask for forgiveness for them will not do.

Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us
38"Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

Gandhi was not a Jew casting out devils in the name of Jesus.

Poor logic and even worse Theology.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[Soma-Sight]

BB,

 

[bibleberean]

BB,

You are telling me to believe the bible? What a joke..

You get your information on God from heathen books and pagan people.

You have an entire thread which claims that the bible is not reliable.

I cannot believe a word you say.

One minute you are a Sabbath keeping anti Catholic, anti protestant.

Next you are quoting from the bhagavad-gita and the Hindu Vedas.

Then you are pro Catholic.

Is this a cry for :smt100 ?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

[quote="Bibleberean edited[/quote]
Is that not "flaming?"

Look again at the scripture

39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

The principle found in verse 41 makes it clear that kindness shown to Christians- in Christ's name - will not lose the reward for so doing.

As for doing something in Jesus' name: in Greek, onoma, does not mean name like Frank or Bill, but encompasses the whole of who a person is. To do something in Jesus' name is to do it in the manner of the gospel.

Relevance? Ghandi did many things in Christ's onoma. Many people using Christ's name (ie, saying the name Jesus) are in fact not doing what they do in the manner or spirit of Christ, but ina spirit of pride, arrogance, resentment, covetuousness, and the like.

The Western, Protestant heresy that downplays the importance of deeds has led many astray into antinominiasm on one hand and pharasaism on the other.

Where do Godly works come into play? Consider the four men who brought the paralytic to Christ. One was faith, the other hope, the third love, and the fourth, work. Work is always there for others. Work is not there to garner righteousness for oneself- but then again, neither are faith, hope or love for oneself.

But that's another thread.

 

[bibleberean]

It could be considered flaming so I will edit it. Thanks for pointing that out...

The bible is clear that works are important and should be done. Not one person in this thread has ever said that they are not.

The bible does not contradict itself and no amount of twisting scripture can change that.

Ecumenists and anti-christ followers will do biblical gymnastics to try and make the bible say what it does not.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

Acts 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

Acts 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

Acts 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Acts 19:20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Many early converts tried mixing their heathen practices with the word of God. This was the result. They burned their books and articles of witchcraft.

This was the practice of the early church of purging out leaven....

The RCC and Orthodox churches brought it back.

We are not to mix heathen practices with the teachings of scripture.

Christ was not condoning who is not a believer to cast out devils in His name.

He was rebuking His dicsiples for exercising an authority they did not have.

They have no power to stop people from speaking in His name. The church was not granted the power to punish or prevent those outside the church from speaking about Christ.

The church can do that within it's own ranks not outside them.

Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.

Matthew 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;

And again Jesus rebuked His disciples...

Luke 9:52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.

Luke 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

 

[Solo]

edited

Is that not "flaming?"

Look again at the scripture

39"Do not stop him," Jesus said. "No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.

The principle found in verse 41 makes it clear that kindness shown to Christians- in Christ's name - will not lose the reward for so doing.

As for doing something in Jesus' name: in Greek, onoma, does not mean name like Frank or Bill, but encompasses the whole of who a person is. To do something in Jesus' name is to do it in the manner of the gospel.

Relevance? Ghandi did many things in Christ's onoma. Many people using Christ's name (ie, saying the name Jesus) are in fact not doing what they do in the manner or spirit of Christ, but ina spirit of pride, arrogance, resentment, covetuousness, and the like.

The Western, Protestant heresy that downplays the importance of deeds has led many astray into antinominiasm on one hand and pharasaism on the other.

Where do Godly works come into play? Consider the four men who brought the paralytic to Christ. One was faith, the other hope, the third love, and the fourth, work. Work is always there for others. Work is not there to garner righteousness for oneself- but then again, neither are faith, hope or love for oneself.

But that's another thread.

Orthodox,
I suppose that you would consider the cute cartoon that Soma-Sight supplied was not flaming Christians. I might have accepted your post as having legitimate value had I not recognized the one-sided accusation. :wink:

Perhaps you could name me a couple of things that Ghandi did for Christians in Jesus name that would place him in the same light as those recorded in Mark 9:38-40. Ghandi did not recognize the Word of God. He might have portrayed Jesus as a great teacher, but he did not know him as God. If he would have, he could have ministered to many in the name of Jesus Christ.

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part. Mark 9:38-40

I believe that the continued dialog that Jesus has with his disciples in verses 41 through 50 are pretty revealing as well:


41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. 42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. 50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

In Jesus Name,
Solo

PS I find it interesting that you would call those that are in the body of Christ Jesus in the "Western, Protestant" group as practicing heresy. That, my friend is in opposition to your own comments about Jesus teachings in Mark 9. Are there any "Western, Catholics" that are caught up in heresy in your opinion as well?

The Western, Protestant heresy that downplays the importance of deeds has led many astray into antinominiasm on one hand and pharasaism on the other.

 

[bibleberean]

Berean Call News letter August 2 2005

Gandhi is greatly admired by Westerners and his concepts of non-violence
have guided individuals such as Dr. Martin Luther King.

The guiding philosophy of Gandhi, however, was extreme Hinduism. Symptomatic of his worldview was his obsession to "saving the cow in India from the butcher's knife."

"To attempt cow protection by violence is to reduce Hinduism to Satanism and to prostitute to a base end the grand significance of cow protection. As a Mussulman friend writes, beef-eating, which is merely permissible in Islam, will become a duty if compulsion is resorted to by Hindus. The latter can protect the cow only by developing the faculty for dying, for suffering . . . The Hindus must scrupulously refrain from using any violence against Mussulmans. Suffering and trust are attributes of soul-force. I have heard that, at big fairs, if a Mussulman is found in possession of cows or even goats, he is at times forcibly dispossessed. Those who, claiming to be Hindus, thus resort to violence are enemies of the cow and of Hinduism. The best and the only way to save the cow is to save the Khilafat.

I hope therefore that every non-co-operator will strain himself to the utmost to prevent the slightest tendency to violence in any shape or form, whether to protect the cow or any other animal or to effect any other purpose"

(Young India 18-5-1921, CWOMG vol. XX p. 111).

 

[Soma-Sight]

Well.....

at any rate......

at least we know where we all stand on this issue!!!! : :

Good replies everyone!

Thank you for your participation in this thread!

29He talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Orthodox,
I suppose that you would consider the cute cartoon that Soma-Sight supplied was not flaming Christians.

The ToS allows "ideas" to be attacked, but not individuals. If Soma did attack Christianity- or rather, a certain type of Christianity- he would not be in viiolation of the stated rules.

I might have accepted your post as having legitimate value had I not recognized the one-sided accusation. :wink:

I think it was quite fair that I call BB on this- especially in the light of the fact that he is fair and even-handed. Perhaps I should have questioned the remark in PM.

I will do that next time.

Perhaps you could name me a couple of things that Ghandi did for Christians in Jesus name that would place him in the same light as those recorded in Mark 9:38-40. Ghandi did not recognize the Word of God. He might have portrayed Jesus as a great teacher, but he did not know him as God. If he would have, he could have ministered to many in the name of Jesus Christ.

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part. Mark 9:38-40

I believe that the continued dialog that Jesus has with his disciples in verses 41 through 50 are pretty revealing as well:


41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward. 42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. 50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

In Jesus Name,
Solo

My contention- somewhat distant from the title of this thread- if that Ghandi exemplified many aspects of the gospel of Christ. In that sense, he was a 'disciple' in the broad sense. Not, however, in the specific sense: a true disciple becomes fully like his teacher.
This excludes many who call themselves 'Christian.'
Lord have mercy upon me for my departures.

PS I find it interesting that you would call those that are in the body of Christ Jesus in the "Western, Protestant" group as practicing heresy. That, my friend is in opposition to your own comments about Jesus teachings in Mark 9. Are there any "Western, Catholics" that are caught up in heresy in your opinion as well?

I think it is notewrothy that in fact I said what I said in this manner:

The Western, Protestant heresy that downplays the importance of deeds has led many astray into antinominiasm on one hand and pharasaism on the other.

Note the qualifiers? By no means do I consider all Western Christians to be partakers of this heresy. In truth, most are not.

 

[Soma-Sight]

OC,

I am going to start calling you "Fair and Balanced".

You seem to really think about your replies especailly in regards to Gandhi here!

 

[Soma-Sight]

"To attempt cow protection by violence is to reduce Hinduism to Satanism and to prostitute to a base end the grand significance of cow protection. As a Mussulman friend writes, beef-eating, which is merely permissible in Islam, will become a duty if compulsion is resorted to by Hindus.

I am well aware of the distaste of the Hare Krishnas to the Christians in America due to wholesale cattle murder.

That got me thinking......

How would Christians feel about wholesale "dove" slaughter?

 

[Solo]

"To attempt cow protection by violence is to reduce Hinduism to Satanism and to prostitute to a base end the grand significance of cow protection. As a Mussulman friend writes, beef-eating, which is merely permissible in Islam, will become a duty if compulsion is resorted to by Hindus.

I am well aware of the distaste of the Hare Krishnas to the Christians in America due to wholesale cattle murder.

That got me thinking......

How would Christians feel about wholesale "dove" slaughter?

Dove hunting is a swell sport here in Texas, and Doves are very tasty when kabobed with quail, onions, tomatoes, and peppers.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Dove hunting is a swell sport here in Texas, and Doves are very tasty when kabobed with quail, onions, tomatoes, and peppers.

lol!

Well that answers that one doesnt it?

 

[Solo]

"To attempt cow protection by violence is to reduce Hinduism to Satanism and to prostitute to a base end the grand significance of cow protection. As a Mussulman friend writes, beef-eating, which is merely permissible in Islam, will become a duty if compulsion is resorted to by Hindus.

I am well aware of the distaste of the Hare Krishnas to the Christians in America due to wholesale cattle murder.

That got me thinking......

How would Christians feel about wholesale "dove" slaughter?

I just remembered an occasion that I had in meeting the Hare Krishnas when they were allowed to flood the airports with their proselitizing of the public. I had a group of them approach me, stuffing a book with George Harrison on the cover, telling me that the book was a gift. As soon as I denied giving them a donation, they grabbed the book from my hand and wandered to the next victim. They took back the gift that they just gave me. I was brought fully aware that they were more intent on collecting money than they were in spreading a gospel of truth. A nice human trait of sinfulness, don't you think?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

"To attempt cow protection by violence is to reduce Hinduism to Satanism and to prostitute to a base end the grand significance of cow protection. As a Mussulman friend writes, beef-eating, which is merely permissible in Islam, will become a duty if compulsion is resorted to by Hindus.

I am well aware of the distaste of the Hare Krishnas to the Christians in America due to wholesale cattle murder.

That got me thinking......

How would Christians feel about wholesale "dove" slaughter?

I just remembered an occasion that I had in meeting the Hare Krishnas when they were allowed to flood the airports with their proselitizing of the public. I had a group of them approach me, stuffing a book with George Harrison on the cover, telling me that the book was a gift. As soon as I denied giving them a donation, they grabbed the book from my hand and wandered to the next victim. They took back the gift that they just gave me. I was brought fully aware that they were more intent on collecting money than they were in spreading a gospel of truth. A nice human trait of sinfulness, don't you think?

Yeah, that's pretty shallow on their part.

But here's another consideration:
Have you ever watched how quickly Christians will turn their backs on their wounded and fallen?

That's not just shallow- it's a chilling demonstration of human sinfulness.