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bibleberean
Guest
I don't think all Orthodox "Christians" turn their backs on their fallen wounded.
That is a bit harsh...
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That is a bit harsh...
:-
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O
Orthodox Christian
Guest
Allow me please to restate:bibleberean said:I don't think all Orthodox "Christians" turn their backs on their fallen wounded.
That is a bit harsh...
Have you ever watched how quickly many Christians of diverse denominational and non-denominational affiliations will turn their backs on their wounded and fallen?
Yeah, the wording is cumbersome, but carries the meaning of what I was intending to say.
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bibleberean
Guest
Orthodox Christian said:Allow me please to restate:bibleberean said:I don't think all Orthodox "Christians" turn their backs on their fallen wounded.
That is a bit harsh...
Have you ever watched how quickly many Christians of diverse denominational and non-denominational affiliations will turn their backs on their wounded and fallen?
Yeah, the wording is cumbersome, but carries the meaning of what I was intending to say.
Well, if that is the case then I would tend to agree. :angel:
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DivineNames
Guest
bibleberean said:
A fundamentalist Christian criticizing Gandhi for being "extreme" in his religion...
:-D
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bibleberean
Guest
What makes a person who believes in the fundamentals of the Christian faith an extremist?
How would you like to fly on a plane with a pilot who didn't understand the fundamentals of flight?
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How would you like to fly on a plane with a pilot who didn't understand the fundamentals of flight?
:
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DivineNames
Guest
bibleberean said:
The beliefs in question, what fundamentalists see as the "fundamentals" of the Christian faith.
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bibleberean
Guest
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DivineNames
Guest
bibleberean said:
You seem to think that most Christians are in "apostate" churches, that could be seen as a bit extreme.
You seem to think that non-Christians are all damned, even those who have never been exposed to Christianity. That could be seen as a bit extreme.
Perhaps we could find other examples.
Credit where credit is due, you may not be as bonkers as some of them, but you are still something of a religious "extremist".
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DivineNames
Guest
Gandhi doesn't look that "extreme" to me.
Gandhi's Quotes on Religion
http://www.mkgandhi.org/religionmk.htm
Gandhi's Quotes on Religion
http://www.mkgandhi.org/religionmk.htm
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DivineNames
Guest
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Solo
Guest
DivineNames said:
Was Ghandi a sinner in need of a savior?
Did Ghandi believe that Jesus was a liar?
Did Ghandi believe that Jesus' teachings were true?
Did Ghandi repent as Jesus taught?
Did Ghandi believe as Jesus taught?
Did Ghandi become born again as Jesus taught Nicodemas?
Did Ghandi know his position in God's kingdom after death?
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bibleberean
Guest
Solo said:
Gandhi was a sinner in need of a saviour.
He did not believe Christ was the saviour of the world.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Gandhi believed Jesus was an egotist according to his statement.
Jesus built a church. It was founded on the confession that He was the Christ. Matthew 16:16-18
Gandhi did not believe this so I a would assume he believed Christ was deluded or a liar.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Gandhi did not believe the teachings of Jesus were true.
Gandhi could not repent as Jesus taught...
Jesus came to call sinners to repentance and draw all men to Himself.
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
It is necessary to have faith in Jesus to be saved.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
God through the apostle Paul says the same thing...
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ganhdi did not become "born again" because he did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God.
Gandhi if he did not believe will not enter the Kingdom of God nor even see it.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Conclusion:
Gandhi was not an eastern disciple of the Lord.
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Solo
Guest
If Ghandi would have repented of his own wretchedness and wickedness, and believed in Jesus as savior, then he would not have penned the following:
"It is a constant torture to me that I am still so far from Him whom I know to be my very life and being. I know it is my own wretchedness and wickedness that keeps me from Him." - Ghandi
Paul writes a similar statement in Romans, but he acknowledges his freedom in Christ Jesus:
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 7:24-25
"It is a constant torture to me that I am still so far from Him whom I know to be my very life and being. I know it is my own wretchedness and wickedness that keeps me from Him." - Ghandi
Paul writes a similar statement in Romans, but he acknowledges his freedom in Christ Jesus:
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 7:24-25
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Soma-Sight
Guest
Islam
About 8 or 9 years ago, I did a study on Islam it is a false religion, which Christians must reject.
I have hundreads of pages of notes to many to put here, but down below, is a good site to go, to and learn something about Islam. But if anybody has a question just ask, and I will try and answer it. In the Quran it has Jesus making clay birds come alive, Moses and Haman building a Muslim temple together, it says that the angel Gabriel delivered the Quran to Muhammed, the female camel who lept out of a rock and became a prophet. The story of God holding up Mt Sinai, and holding it over the head of the Jews as a threat, to squash them if they rejected the law. The story of the golden calf jumping out of the fire and mooing. The Quran also says that Alexander The Great was a Muslim, who lived to be old, but he really died at the age of 33. It also contradicts itself, in one part of the Quran it says that Allah came to Muhammed as a man,and gave him the Quran, and then in another part it says that the Holy Spirit came and gave him the Quran, and then in another part it says that Gabriel came and gave him the Quran. If you all want to know where to find them and what Sura's they are in, in the Quran I will give them to you. Then it was the story of a whole village that was turned into apes, because they broke the Jewish Sabbath. And also in the Quran it tells you to banish your wife to the couch and beat her if she disobeys you. And the story he made up so that he could have his son inlaws wife, which a lot of Muslims when reading that, left Islam. And it is much, much more, so do you see what we are dealing with here. I got one more for you. Muhammed had about 16 wives, even though the Quran says that you can have no more than 4.
And the 3rd wife Aesha was 8 years old, and I have all of their names. Ok here is what he had, the first 16 were wives. Numbers 17 and 18 were slaves or cocubines, the last 4 were neither slaves or concubines, but devout Muslim women who were his sex partners. Now Mary number 17 was a coptic Christian, who refused to marry him, and denouce her faith, so he forced her to stay with him. Even the great Muslim scholar Ali Dashti
had to back all this stuff up. But thats all for now, but I got much, much more.
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0476.htm
About 8 or 9 years ago, I did a study on Islam it is a false religion, which Christians must reject.
I have hundreads of pages of notes to many to put here, but down below, is a good site to go, to and learn something about Islam. But if anybody has a question just ask, and I will try and answer it. In the Quran it has Jesus making clay birds come alive, Moses and Haman building a Muslim temple together, it says that the angel Gabriel delivered the Quran to Muhammed, the female camel who lept out of a rock and became a prophet. The story of God holding up Mt Sinai, and holding it over the head of the Jews as a threat, to squash them if they rejected the law. The story of the golden calf jumping out of the fire and mooing. The Quran also says that Alexander The Great was a Muslim, who lived to be old, but he really died at the age of 33. It also contradicts itself, in one part of the Quran it says that Allah came to Muhammed as a man,and gave him the Quran, and then in another part it says that the Holy Spirit came and gave him the Quran, and then in another part it says that Gabriel came and gave him the Quran. If you all want to know where to find them and what Sura's they are in, in the Quran I will give them to you. Then it was the story of a whole village that was turned into apes, because they broke the Jewish Sabbath. And also in the Quran it tells you to banish your wife to the couch and beat her if she disobeys you. And the story he made up so that he could have his son inlaws wife, which a lot of Muslims when reading that, left Islam. And it is much, much more, so do you see what we are dealing with here. I got one more for you. Muhammed had about 16 wives, even though the Quran says that you can have no more than 4.
And the 3rd wife Aesha was 8 years old, and I have all of their names. Ok here is what he had, the first 16 were wives. Numbers 17 and 18 were slaves or cocubines, the last 4 were neither slaves or concubines, but devout Muslim women who were his sex partners. Now Mary number 17 was a coptic Christian, who refused to marry him, and denouce her faith, so he forced her to stay with him. Even the great Muslim scholar Ali Dashti
had to back all this stuff up. But thats all for now, but I got much, much more.
http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0476.htm
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Soma-Sight
Guest
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DivineNames
Guest
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
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Solo
Guest
EXCERPTS FROM Mohammed the prophet versus the prophets By Dallas M. Roark, Ph.D.
Just a few years ago it was uncommon to know a Muslim in this country unless you were in an educational setting. Increasingly, Muslims have come to this country for education, business, and missionary purposes. As Islam has grown in this country there is the need of Christians and others to know something of the nature of Islam, the religion, and about Muslims, the followers or submitters to Islam. There is no better place than to turn to the founder of the religion, Mohammed, a man who was born about 570 A.D. in what we know today as Saudi Arabia. Mohammed claimed that Gabriel confronted him and forced him to speak and in the process called him to be a prophet of Allah, the God.
One of the first issues we must deal with is Mohammed himself. Mohammed claimed to be a prophet, a warner of the idol worshipers in his time. At the same time he claimed that he was the last of the prophets which included Moses, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, David, and Jesus. If Mohammed claimed only to be a prophet without regard to those before him, there would be less of a problem in evaluating him. But as long as he claimed to be in this particular prophetic tradition, we must look at some of the problems with this claim.
First, prophets in the Old Testament always called the Israelite people back to the Law and the Covenant. This was the major theme and calling of the prophets. Read any prophetic book of the Old Testament and one will find this theme, calling a rebellious people back to the worship of Yahweh, the Creator and Redeemer. Mohammed does not fit the mold. He does not call people back to the law and covenant that God had established, but he has a message that in effect replaces the old revelation with his own. The earlier revelation is seen as important only as far as it can serve to support or authenticate his own by the claim that it is in agreement with what came before.
Second, the prophets themselves did not take vengeance on the people. When one reads Jeremiah, Isaiah, or Amos, there is the prophetic word that Yahweh will bring judgment on the disbelieving people. Jeremiah proclaimed that Babylon was the instrument of God to chastise the Israelites. Jeremiah did not recruit a private army to bring his own judgment. However, Mohammed did. In contrast to him, there is in the message of the Biblical prophets no jihad against unbelieving people in general. Nothing is said about a jihad against the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, or anyone else.
Third, the prophets of the Old Testament lived with rejection, slander, persecution, and even death. No prophet attempted to defend himself. In contrast, Mohammed could not tolerate rejection. He did not permit adversaries. This was true in regard to individual people as well as large groups. An example of the individual rejection concerns a Jew by the name of Ka’b Ibn Al-Ashraf who wrote sarcastic poems about Mohammed. Mohammed one day asked, "Who will deliver me from Ka’b?" Five men, including Mohammed Ibn Maslama, laid a trap for Ka’b. They coaxed him out of his house, cut off his head, and brought it to Mohammed with the worshipful cry, "Allah is great!" and Mohammed agreed with them.
Another example of his misunderstanding, or lack of knowledge relates to the nature of God. The Qur’an says, "People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, ‘Three.’ Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Himâ€â€That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian." (4:171)
The rejection of Jesus as the divine Son of God reflects Mohammed’s misunderstanding of the nature of God. If God is love, who was there to love before the creation of the world? The nature of love is to be directed toward another. The monotheistic idea of the Trinity reflects the oneness of the nature of God in which God as Father from eternity, loves his eternal Son, and the eternal Holy Spirit. One cannot read the New Testament and avoid the conclusion that Jesus is the eternal Son of God incarnate, embodied, joined to humanity’s flesh as the only redeemer of mankind.
Just a few years ago it was uncommon to know a Muslim in this country unless you were in an educational setting. Increasingly, Muslims have come to this country for education, business, and missionary purposes. As Islam has grown in this country there is the need of Christians and others to know something of the nature of Islam, the religion, and about Muslims, the followers or submitters to Islam. There is no better place than to turn to the founder of the religion, Mohammed, a man who was born about 570 A.D. in what we know today as Saudi Arabia. Mohammed claimed that Gabriel confronted him and forced him to speak and in the process called him to be a prophet of Allah, the God.
One of the first issues we must deal with is Mohammed himself. Mohammed claimed to be a prophet, a warner of the idol worshipers in his time. At the same time he claimed that he was the last of the prophets which included Moses, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, David, and Jesus. If Mohammed claimed only to be a prophet without regard to those before him, there would be less of a problem in evaluating him. But as long as he claimed to be in this particular prophetic tradition, we must look at some of the problems with this claim.
First, prophets in the Old Testament always called the Israelite people back to the Law and the Covenant. This was the major theme and calling of the prophets. Read any prophetic book of the Old Testament and one will find this theme, calling a rebellious people back to the worship of Yahweh, the Creator and Redeemer. Mohammed does not fit the mold. He does not call people back to the law and covenant that God had established, but he has a message that in effect replaces the old revelation with his own. The earlier revelation is seen as important only as far as it can serve to support or authenticate his own by the claim that it is in agreement with what came before.
Second, the prophets themselves did not take vengeance on the people. When one reads Jeremiah, Isaiah, or Amos, there is the prophetic word that Yahweh will bring judgment on the disbelieving people. Jeremiah proclaimed that Babylon was the instrument of God to chastise the Israelites. Jeremiah did not recruit a private army to bring his own judgment. However, Mohammed did. In contrast to him, there is in the message of the Biblical prophets no jihad against unbelieving people in general. Nothing is said about a jihad against the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, or anyone else.
Third, the prophets of the Old Testament lived with rejection, slander, persecution, and even death. No prophet attempted to defend himself. In contrast, Mohammed could not tolerate rejection. He did not permit adversaries. This was true in regard to individual people as well as large groups. An example of the individual rejection concerns a Jew by the name of Ka’b Ibn Al-Ashraf who wrote sarcastic poems about Mohammed. Mohammed one day asked, "Who will deliver me from Ka’b?" Five men, including Mohammed Ibn Maslama, laid a trap for Ka’b. They coaxed him out of his house, cut off his head, and brought it to Mohammed with the worshipful cry, "Allah is great!" and Mohammed agreed with them.
Another example of his misunderstanding, or lack of knowledge relates to the nature of God. The Qur’an says, "People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, ‘Three.’ Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Himâ€â€That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian." (4:171)
The rejection of Jesus as the divine Son of God reflects Mohammed’s misunderstanding of the nature of God. If God is love, who was there to love before the creation of the world? The nature of love is to be directed toward another. The monotheistic idea of the Trinity reflects the oneness of the nature of God in which God as Father from eternity, loves his eternal Son, and the eternal Holy Spirit. One cannot read the New Testament and avoid the conclusion that Jesus is the eternal Son of God incarnate, embodied, joined to humanity’s flesh as the only redeemer of mankind.