Genesis 1/Souls

[Prince]

sorry to say to you that I believe the earth to only be 6 to 10 thousand years old.
I dont believe for a min. that it is millions of years old , you have bought in to the
lies from the people who push evolution and their so called science.
the bible clealy is pointing to the earth being young but even believers have been tainted with the lie of evolution , evolutionist need an old earth and they go looking
for facts to support their postion and pass over facts that dont support it , and since
the devil is in control of the world and its systems, his lie of evolution is pushed every
where and the truth of Gods creation is mocked every where.

Hello matthew

sorry to say to you that I believe the earth to only be 6 to 10 thousand years old.

Ok I believe you to be wrong but ok..Can you produce something to support your case or are you just going to tell us we been duped

 

[stovebolts]

No Sir you are wrong...The bible tells us that the kenites came from Cain mating with his wife.

17And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Cain knew is wife that means he mated with her physically not spiritually.. and he had a child name Enoch....The hebrew says she concieved

וַיֵּ֤דַעvai·ye·da3045hadקַ֙יִן֙ka·yin7014Cainאֶת־et-853 אִשְׁתֹּ֔וish·tov,802his wifeוַתַּ֖הַרvat·ta·har2029conceivedוַתֵּ֣לֶדvat·te·led3205and gaveאֶת־et-853 חֲנֹ֑וךְcha·no·vch;2585to Enoch

LOL, you really should try some humility I don't see any mention of a Kenite in the verses above, so indeed, it's not what the Bible says at all. Spiritually, I think you missed the jist of what I wrote earlier. Tis ok, lets stay with the things of this world before we go speaking on other realms... Agreed? ;)

/ I​

Kenites
The Full Etymology of the Words “Kenite” and “Kenites”
Words Translated “Kenite” and “Kenites” Strong’s 7014—Qayin, kah’-yin; the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Pal., and of an Oriental tribe:—Cain, Kenite(-s). Strong’s 7017, Qênîy, kay-nee’; or Qînîy (I Chron. 2:55), kee-nee’; patron. from 7014; a Kenite or member of the tribe of Kajin:—Kenite. Words from Which “Kenite” and “Kenites” Are Derived Strong’s 7013—qayin, kah’-yin; from 6969 in the orig. sense of fixity; a lance (as striking fast):—spear. Strong’s 6969—qûwn, koon; a prim. root; to strike a musical note, i.e. chant or wail (at a funeral):—lament, mourning woman. Strong’s 7069—qânâh, kaw-naw’; a prim. root; to erect, i.e. create; by extens. to procure, espec. by purchase (caus. sell); by impl. to own:—attain, buy(-er), teach to keep cattle, get, provoke to jealousy, possess(-or), purchase, recover, redeem, x surely, x verily. Thus, the Kenites are the sons of Cain.

Ha, c'mon, that's not an etymology That's not even a lexicon. It's simply a Strongs Concordance which shows where the Hebrew word has been translated as Kenite. Strongs is a great reference, but it's not etymology by any means of the word. I do believe you have access to Dictionary.com.

Now then, about this, "Thus, the Kenites are the sons of Cain" is a deduction based on how a word has been translated. Etymology shows that the word Kenite simply means that they were "Smiths"
Patriarchal Palestine - Google Books
There are many sources that bear this out, including the Jews. After all, it is their language, not Mr. Strongs...

Judg 1:16
16 And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people. (KJV)

children: Hebrew word #1121 ben (bane); from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like 1, 251, etc.]):
​

Moses' father in law is referred to as 'Kenite' because he was from the land of the Kenites, he was a stranger in a strange land:

Ummm..... Not really. Have you looked at a map where the Kenites came from? Yup, it's in Canaan. Moses father in law is a Medianite as you've rightly shown as being the offspring of Abraham, which I stated earlier. BTW, Sinai is not in the land of Canaan either, which is where Moses first met his Father in Law.

This is where it gets interesting ;)

Numbers 10:29-30 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. And he said unto him, I will not go; but I will depart to mine own land, and to my kindred.

Ha, so Moses is getting ready to go into the Land of Canaan, which is where the land of Kenites dwell, yet they are parting ways. Things that make ya go hum lol!

Now then, who is Hobab, and who is Raguel and which one is Moses Father in Law? Oh, and for kicks, do you know what both of these names mean? Remember, names are very meaningful in the Old Testament. Here's a Bonus question. Who is Jethro?

We'll play with this for a bit, and them I'll see if I can make my point a bit clearer.
Ohh, don't confuse Exodus 2 and 3... Keep in mind that Abraham wasn't the biological Father to Jacob, yet Jacob calls Abraham his Father. So we see, there is a Spiritual Father in connection with a line of Geneology, yet Ruth was a Moabite :D

Fun fun, gotta run!

 

[matthew]

Hello matthew



Ok I believe you to be wrong but ok..Can you produce something to support your case or are you just going to tell us we been duped

count out the years as laid out in the geneology in genesis
keep in mind what Jesus said about scriptures ( that they could not be broken) and that he also quoted genesis

 

[Prince]

LOL, you really should try some humility I don't see any mention of a Kenite in the verses above, so indeed, it's not what the Bible says at all. Spiritually, I think you missed the jist of what I wrote earlier. Tis ok, lets stay with the things of this world before we go speaking on other realms... Agreed? ;)

/ I​

Ha, c'mon, that's not an etymology That's not even a lexicon. It's simply a Strongs Concordance which shows where the Hebrew word has been translated as Kenite. Strongs is a great reference, but it's not etymology by any means of the word. I do believe you have access to Dictionary.com.

Now then, about this, "Thus, the Kenites are the sons of Cain" is a deduction based on how a word has been translated. Etymology shows that the word Kenite simply means that they were "Smiths"
Patriarchal Palestine - Google Books
There are many sources that bear this out, including the Jews. After all, it is their language, not Mr. Strongs...

Ummm..... Not really. Have you looked at a map where the Kenites came from? Yup, it's in Canaan. Moses father in law is a Medianite as you've rightly shown as being the offspring of Abraham, which I stated earlier. BTW, Sinai is not in the land of Canaan either, which is where Moses first met his Father in Law.

This is where it gets interesting ;)

Numbers 10:29-30 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. And he said unto him, I will not go; but I will depart to mine own land, and to my kindred.

Ha, so Moses is getting ready to go into the Land of Canaan, which is where the land of Kenites dwell, yet they are parting ways. Things that make ya go hum lol!

Now then, who is Hobab, and who is Raguel and which one is Moses Father in Law? Oh, and for kicks, do you know what both of these names mean? Remember, names are very meaningful in the Old Testament. Here's a Bonus question. Who is Jethro?

We'll play with this for a bit, and them I'll see if I can make my point a bit clearer.
Ohh, don't confuse Exodus 2 and 3... Keep in mind that Abraham wasn't the biological Father to Jacob, yet Jacob calls Abraham his Father. So we see, there is a Spiritual Father in connection with a line of Geneology, yet Ruth was a Moabite :D

Fun fun, gotta run!

LOL, you really should try some humility

Humility (adjectival form: humble) is the quality of being modest, reverential, even politely submissive, and never being arrogant, contemptuous, rude or even self-abasing. Humility, in various interpretations, is widely seen as a virtue in many religious and philosophical traditions, being connected with notions of transcendent unity with the universe or the divine, and of egolessness.

Being humble is a quality I do indeed have, but there is a season for everything just as one must rightly divide the word one must also be humble and bold.

Smiley faces and winks dont = humilty friend.

I don't see any mention of a Kenite in the verses above, so indeed, it's not what the Bible says at all. Spiritually, I think you missed the jist of what I wrote earlier. Tis ok, lets stay with the things of this world before we go speaking on other realms... Agreed?

Nah I think I know exactlly where your going, I just dont have time at the moment to go verse by verse - and thats what needs to be done...

Simply put the Kenties come from Cain - Cain is the father of the Kenites I will have more time later, to go into an in debth study of this.

Here's a Bonus question. Who is Jethro?

I would rather go verse by verse because you bring up some very good points....But time time time ,,anyhow heres where I stand for the most part and I will go in debth a little later..

next page

 

[Prince]

Many teachers of the Bible teach that Moses married a daughter of a Kenite, however we read in Exodus 3:1; Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb." Notice that Jethro is a title, while Midian is the tribe that Moses' father in law was part of.

Then in Exodus 18:1: "When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses..." This is also a second witness to the fact that Moses' Father-in-law was a Midian priest; and for his real name it is given in Exodus 2:18, and Numbers 10:29. Moses' father in law's name was "Reuel", and the fact that he was a priest of Midian, shows he was from the stock of Abraham. For Midian was the son of Abraham, through his wife "Keturah".

So we see that Moses married a daughter of Abraham, by Katurah, and not some Kenite, who are the offspring of Satan, through Cain. "Reuel" lived in the land of the Kenites, and held the title of Jethro. Just because Abraham lived in the land of the "Canaanites" did not make Abraham a Canaanite.
It is important that we understand whether the name is attached from a geographic location, or from their birthright. Anyone who challenges the bloodline of Jesus Christ is ignorant of the Word of God, and is taking liberties that makes him a heretic, placing themself in a dangerous position before the Lord. Mark him well.

Let me point out that this is not the first time in the Bible that a person is known under two names. One that everyone is familiar with is Peter who was called Simon.

Matt 10:2
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; (KJV)
​

As regarding Moses' Father in Law, we actually only have two different names, not three. I know how the English reads, but both Reuel and Raguel are the same Hebrew word Re`uw'el, Strong's # 7467. Below we supply every occurrence of #7467 in the Old Testament (they are not all the same people though they have the same name).
Reuel and Raguel:Hebrew word #7467 Re` uw'el (reh-oo-ale'); from the same as 7466 and 410; friend of God; Reuel, the name of Moses' father-in-law, also of an Edomite and an Israelite: KJV-- Raguel, Reuel.

Every occurrence of Hebrew word #7467 (KJV)

Gen 36:4
4 And Adah bare to Esau Eliphaz; and Bashemath bare Reuel; (KJV)

Gen 36:10
10 These are the names of Esau's sons; Eliphaz the son of Adah the wife of Esau, Reuel the son of Bashemath the wife of Esau. (KJV)

Gen 36:13
13 And these are the sons of Reuel; Nahath, and Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah: these were the sons of Bashemath Esau's wife. (KJV)

Gen 36:17
17 And these are the sons of Reuel Esau's son; duke Nahath, duke Zerah, duke Shammah, duke Mizzah: these are the dukes that came of Reuel in the land of Edom; these are the sons of Bashemath Esau's wife. (KJV)

Exod 2:18
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Num 10:29
29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. (KJV)

1 Chr 1:35
35 The sons of Esau; Eliphaz, Reuel, and Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah. (KJV)

1 Chr 1:37
37 The sons of Reuel; Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah. (KJV)

1 Chr 9:8
8 And Ibneiah the son of Jeroham, and Elah the son of Uzzi, the son of Michri, and Meshullam the son of Shephathiah, the son of Reuel, the son of Ibnijah; (KJV)
​

So that explains two out of the three. As far as Jethro, it is just another name that the man was called. Why? Perhaps the answer lies in the name-meanings. We know that in the Hebrew every name has a meaning, i.e., Lo-Ammi = "not my people," i.e., " Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God." (Hosea 1:9). And Moses means "drawn from the water," for he was 'drawn from the water' by Pharaoh's Daughter, i.e., "And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water." (Exod 2:10).
Further light is shed on the subject by Smith's Bible Dictionary which gives the meanings of the two (three) names as:

Reuel and Raguel: = Friend of God.
Jethro: = Excellence.
​

• Dr. Smith handles the situation with a footnote as follows: "Reuel was probably his proper name, and Jethro his official title." — Smith's Bible Dictionary, 1979 edition, pg. 309
  
  
• In his commentary on Exodus 18:1, also states that the name Jehtro was a title (His Excellency), and Reuel being Moses' Father in law's proper name. — (another Ministry on TV) Exodus Tapeset.
• E.W. Bullinger, in his Companion Bible, states of Jethro that he is Reuel with no further comment except a reference to Ex 2:18. At Ex 2:18, under the name Reuel, Bullinger notes that the name in Hebrew means "friend of God," and that he is the same man as the Raguel of Num 10:29 and that he was "a true worshipper" (of Jehovah), referencing Ex 18:12 (where Jethro dutifully sacrifices to Jehovah). — Companion Bible, ppg. 75, 98.

That Jethro is his title name make sense, for the very definition of Jethro means means "his excellence." May we read it therefore as "his excellency" in title form?

Jethro: Hebrew word #3503 Yithrow (yith-ro'); from # 3499 with pron. suffix; his excellence; Jethro, Moses' father-in-law: KJV-- Jethro. Compare 3500.

#3499 yether (yeh'-ther); from 3498; properly, an overhanging, i.e. (by implication) an excess, superiority, remainder; also a small rope (as hanging free): KJV-- + abundant, cord, exceeding, excellancy (-ent), what they leave, that hath left, plentifully, remnant, residue, rest, string, with.
​

Another example of a title being used as a proper name in Scripture would be with Herod, for there are seven different "Herods" in the New Testament (See Appendix # 109). It therefore may be said that Herod was somewhat of a family title. Also, there are many different Pharaohs, Pharaoh being a title just as King is a title.
One thing is sure, the Holy Spirit made certain that we would know whom it was that was being spoken of, for in addition to the man's name, several additional identifiers were given in the Scriptures, i.e.,

Exod 2:16-18
16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock.
17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Exod 3:1
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. (KJV)

Num 10:29
29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. (KJV)
​

These notes are taken from a couple of different place so I would be more then happy to show where if anyone cares.


​

 

[cyberjosh]

Genealogally speaking, you can track from Reuel, who tracks back to Keturah, Abraham's wife.

Completely off the immediate topic... I always thought that the translation/nameform "Reuel" made Jethro sound like a Spaniard. If they ever make a movie of the Exodus they should make Antonio Banderas play Reuel. :D *Que Latino music and the tango*

 

[Prince]

count out the years as laid out in the geneology in genesis
keep in mind what Jesus said about scriptures ( that they could not be broken) and that he also quoted genesis

Hello Matt - I dont wanna sound rude, but do you know anything about Carbon dating or Potassium-Argon dating?

You have the burden of proving this to be a lie

 

[Prince]

Completely off the immediate topic... I always thought that the translation/nameform "Reuel" made Jethro sound like a Spaniard. If they ever make a movie of the Exodus they should make Antonio Banderas play Reuel. :D *Que Latino music and the tango*

a break in the action is ok.

Ever saw the 10 Commandments? It kinda reminds me of when the daughters were dancing for Moses, but he didnt choose any of them.

 

[cyberjosh]

a break in the action is ok.

Ever saw the 10 Commandments? It kinda reminds me of when the daughters were dancing for Moses, but he didnt choose any of them.

Actually I'm not sure if I've seen the whole movie. Maybe I should some time. I know its a classic. It would be great to do a remake of it with all the advances in film we've had since then. They could probably do a pretty good animation of the Red Sea parting, and the pillars of cloud and fire in the wilderness (but nobody does it as good as God! :D).

P.S. I have seen the animated/cartoon movie The Prince of Egypt (and it was well done) but having a "real" modernized film would be awesome.

 

[Prince]

Actually I'm not sure if I've seen the whole movie. Maybe I should some time. I know its a classic. It would be great to do a remake of it with all the advances in film we've had since then. They could probably do a pretty good animation of the Red Sea parting, and the pillars of cloud and fire in the wilderness (but nobody does it as good as God! :D).

P.S. I have seen the animated/cartoon movie The Prince of Egypt (and it was well done) but having a "real" modernized film would be awesome.

Sound likes a plan to me, i'l catch "The Prince of Eygpt"

and you catch the classic..

 

[cyberjosh]

Sound likes a plan to me, i'l catch "The Prince of Eygpt"
....
and you catch the classic..

Deal!

P.S. Never seen The Prince of Egypt? I've seen "clips" of The Ten Commandments, I'll see if I can find it at my local library.

 

[matthew]

Hello Matt - I dont wanna sound rude, but do you know anything about Carbon dating or Potassium-Argon dating?

You have the burden of proving this to be a lie

they have carbon dated live molusks to be 3000 years old
potassium argon is just as subjective , they will get a whole range of dates
ranging from a few years to 500 million then they will throw out any that dont
fit their theroy , and its all really based on the theory of evolution and their faith in it
after all there is no god so it must be evolution . they were not there when the rock was formed to know the compostion so there final figures will always be based on their faith .
I would urge you to read the book bones of contention, which has a chapter devoted
to how they came up with the age of one fossil, the original samples of rock had dates of a few years to 50 million but in the end it was the theory of evolution
that picked the right date , which was the foisted on the public as being as sure as gravity .

 

[matthew]

Hello Matt - I dont wanna sound rude, but do you know anything about Carbon dating or Potassium-Argon dating?

You have the burden of proving this to be a lie

by the way they have found fossil dinosaur footprints with the footprints of man inside them (incsae you thought your picture would sway me )

 

[stovebolts]

Exod 2:16-18
16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they came and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock.
17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Exod 3:1
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. (KJV)

Num 10:29
29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. (KJV)
​

These notes are taken from a couple of different place so I would be more then happy to show where if anyone cares.

The word is simple and does not require a lengthy explanation. All that is required is a working understanding of the culture. Let me explain.

17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Reuel their father, is not to be read as their biological father. It is to be read in the same manner that Abraham is Jacob's father. (Gen 32:9)

Exod 3:1
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian:

Simply put, Jethro is the biological father of the 7 daughters, and Jethro's biological father is Reuel.

Now then, you are a student of the Bible, so you know that at specific events in ones life, one is given a new name. We see this clearly with Abram / Abraham and we see it clearly with Jacob / Israel. I trust you understand at what point they are given their new names.

With an understanding on the internal change that took place when both Abram and Jacob recieved their new names, here is the event that gave Jethro, the priest of Median his new name.

Exodus 18:10-12 And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.

And thus, was given the name Hobab, "from 2245; cherished; Chobab, father-in-law of Moses:--Hobab." :D

Num 10:29
29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. (KJV)

So we see that Hobab (Jethro) was the son of Raguel (Reuel, as you have explained as being the same as Raguel), the Midianite whom we've already concluded came from Keturah, Abraham's wife. Hobab, according to scripture is the father in law to Moses.

It really is that simple... But we have another matter to contend with. Let me explain.

Numbers 10:30 And he said unto him, I will not go; but I will depart to mine own land, and to my kindred.

We know that Moses is referring to the land of Canaan, yet Hobab will be going to his own land. Yet we can look at a map and see clearly where the Kenites dwell, which clearly, is in Canaan.

How do you explain this?...

Judg 1:16
16 And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the people. (KJV)

children: Hebrew word #1121 ben (bane); from 1129; a son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., [like 1, 251, etc.]):
​

Moses' father in law is referred to as 'Kenite' because he was from the land of the Kenites, he was a stranger in a strange land:

The Kenites dwelt in the Negev, or spoken more clearly, it was in the Land of Canaan, to where Moses was headed, to which Hobab declined. Thus, "Moses' father in law is referred to as 'Kenite' because he was from the land of the Kenites, he was a stranger in a strange land" cannot be correct.

 

[stovebolts]

Sound likes a plan to me, i'l catch "The Prince of Eygpt"

and you catch the classic..

That's funny lol!
Its' funny too, cause Charlton Heston, in the movie, stands in the palace when the hail comes down, yet the bible tells us that he went out into the country. I always wondered how he made it through the hail without getting killed? Do you think he had one of those plastic Pope bubbles around him? :D

 

[stovebolts]

So we see that Moses married a daughter of Abraham, by Katurah, and not some Kenite, who are the offspring of Satan, through Cain. "Reuel" lived in the land of the Kenites, and held the title of Jethro. Just because Abraham lived in the land of the "Canaanites" did not make Abraham a Canaanite.
It is important that we understand whether the name is attached from a geographic location, or from their birthright.

You have some good starting points (Bolded and underlined), and I like the way you think. You're certainly heading in the right direction

But stepping back, I have to ask myself if you understand why the land of Canaan is called the land of Canaan. Do you even know how this land got it's name? Which raises another question. Do you know who these people are, and their relation to Abram? Where they even supposed to get this land? What was their role originally supposed to be?

BTW, Mt. Sinai is not in the land of Canaan, which is where Moses met Reuel and Jethro because this is where Reuel and Jethro lived... It's where Moses tended sheep for 40 years..., and as I've shown by the map, and I can show by scripture if need be, the Land of the Kenites is in the Negev, which is part of Canaan.

 

[handy]

That's funny lol!
Its' funny too, cause Charlton Heston, in the movie, stands in the palace when the hail comes down, yet the bible tells us that he went out into the country. I always wondered how he made it through the hail without getting killed? Do you think he had one of those plastic Pope bubbles around him? :D

Naw, he just lifted his staff and the hail parted...oh, wait, that's later in the story!



I think I'm gonna bail on this discussion...it is treading way to close to serpent seed (So we see that Moses married a daughter of Abraham, by Katurah, and not some Kenite, who are the offspring of Satan, through Cain) ...and I don't think the logical question of how a flood 3 miles in depth could remain "local" is going to be answered.

The Flood was a global catastrophe...everything in the Scriptures indicate that it was so...from the depth of the flood waters (at least 3 miles deep), easily obtained by simply understanding what a "cubit" is and seeing that the waters were 15 cubits higher than Mt. Ararat which is 16,584 feet tall...to the fact that it is recorded repeatedly that except for Noah, all mankind died, that all animals died, that all that had the breath of life in them died over all the earth, everwhere...

Since the Flood was a global catastrophe, there is no reason to believe that the texts in Jeremiah and Peter, or any other texts which speak of the destruction of the earth...are speaking of anything other than the Flood. Taking the texts which speak of global destruction out of the equation...I don't think there is anything but assumptions based upon conjectures to develop the theory that there was a civilization prior to Genesis 1.

Unless someone can prove, from the Scriptures, that the Flood was not global in nature, I don't think the theory holds water. (I'll leave it up to you to decide if the pun was intended or not!)

 

[Prince]

The word is simple and does not require a lengthy explanation. All that is required is a working understanding of the culture. Let me explain.

17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Reuel their father, is not to be read as their biological father. It is to be read in the same manner that Abraham is Jacob's father. (Gen 32:9)

Exod 3:1
1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian:

Simply put, Jethro is the biological father of the 7 daughters, and Jethro's biological father is Reuel.

Now then, you are a student of the Bible, so you know that at specific events in ones life, one is given a new name. We see this clearly with Abram / Abraham and we see it clearly with Jacob / Israel. I trust you understand at what point they are given their new names.

With an understanding on the internal change that took place when both Abram and Jacob recieved their new names, here is the event that gave Jethro, the priest of Median his new name.

Exodus 18:10-12 And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians. Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.

And thus, was given the name Hobab, "from 2245; cherished; Chobab, father-in-law of Moses:--Hobab." :D

Num 10:29
29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. (KJV)

So we see that Hobab (Jethro) was the son of Raguel (Reuel, as you have explained as being the same as Raguel), the Midianite whom we've already concluded came from Keturah, Abraham's wife. Hobab, according to scripture is the father in law to Moses.

It really is that simple... But we have another matter to contend with. Let me explain.

Numbers 10:30 And he said unto him, I will not go; but I will depart to mine own land, and to my kindred.

We know that Moses is referring to the land of Canaan, yet Hobab will be going to his own land. Yet we can look at a map and see clearly where the Kenites dwell, which clearly, is in Canaan.

How do you explain this?...



The Kenites dwelt in the Negev, or spoken more clearly, it was in the Land of Canaan, to where Moses was headed, to which Hobab declined. Thus, "Moses' father in law is referred to as 'Kenite' because he was from the land of the Kenites, he was a stranger in a strange land" cannot be correct.

The word is simple and does not require a lengthy explanation

Well thats half truth friend - In most cases yes there are simple answers but in some cases there is much to be covered the explantion is based off the material.

Remember - Proverbs 25:2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.

17 And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock.
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Reuel their father, is not to be read as their biological father. It is to be read in the same manner that Abraham is Jacob's father. (Gen 32:9)

Unture how can you make such and obvious error?

Exodus 2:16 "Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they come and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock."

The priest "Raguel" had seven daughters. Very simple

The 7 (7 meaning spiritual completeness) The 7 daughters took care of the well work and the land. The 7 daughters went and got water from the well.

Exodus 2:17 "And the shepherds came and drove them away: but Moses stood up and helped them, and watered their flock."

The shepherds "kenites" came and drove the women away from the well "probabley stealing there water" but Moses stood up and fought back - whip them good seeing how Moses was military trained.

Exodus 2:18 "And when they came to Reuel [Reguel- from Numbers 29:10] their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day?"

The 7 daughters went back home - and there Daddy "Reuel" asked them "Why are you back so soon" because its a all day job and there back early.

Exodus 2:19 "And they said, "An Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and also drew water enough for us, and watered the flock."

They told there father "Reuel" that Moses helped them.

TSO says this concerning

Notice that they called Moses an Egyptian, for that was how Moses was dressed, and remember that he grew up in the Pharaoh's own household. It did not change his bloodline because he word the Egyptian clothes, nor did it change his bloodline because of the Egyptian that he spoke fluently. These girls assumed that Moses was of the Egyptians. As you study the Word of God, use your mind to keep the thoughts straight, and the subject focused on what God is trying to say. Learn to think for yourself. Keep in mind that Moses is a child of Abraham just like they are.

Reuel their father, is not to be read as their biological father

Exodus 2:16 "Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters: and they come and drew water, and filled the troughs to water their father's flock."

I will continue on the next post.

 

[Prince]

Replying to Stovebolts

1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian:

Simply put, Jethro is the biological father of the 7 daughters, and Jethro's biological father is Reuel.

You are wrong sir and I have shown you why please re-read carefully

As regarding Moses' Father in Law, we actually only have two different names, not three. I know how the English reads, but both Reuel and Raguel are the same Hebrew word Re`uw'el, Strong's # 7467. Below we supply every occurrence of #7467 in the Old Testament (they are not all the same people though they have the same name).
Reuel and Raguel:Hebrew word #7467 Re` uw'el (reh-oo-ale'); from the same as 7466 and 410; friend of God; Reuel, the name of Moses' father-in-law, also of an Edomite and an Israelite: KJV-- Raguel, Reuel.

Every occurrence of Hebrew word #7467 (KJV)

Gen 36:4
4 And Adah bare to Esau Eliphaz; and Bashemath bare Reuel; (KJV)

Gen 36:10
10 These are the names of Esau's sons; Eliphaz the son of Adah the wife of Esau, Reuel the son of Bashemath the wife of Esau. (KJV)

Gen 36:13
13 And these are the sons of Reuel; Nahath, and Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah: these were the sons of Bashemath Esau's wife. (KJV)

Gen 36:17
17 And these are the sons of Reuel Esau's son; duke Nahath, duke Zerah, duke Shammah, duke Mizzah: these are the dukes that came of Reuel in the land of Edom; these are the sons of Bashemath Esau's wife. (KJV)

Exod 2:18
18 And when they came to Reuel their father, he said, How is it that ye are come so soon to day? (KJV)

Num 10:29
29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel. (KJV)

1 Chr 1:35
35 The sons of Esau; Eliphaz, Reuel, and Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah. (KJV)

1 Chr 1:37
37 The sons of Reuel; Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah. (KJV)

1 Chr 9:8
8 And Ibneiah the son of Jeroham, and Elah the son of Uzzi, the son of Michri, and Meshullam the son of Shephathiah, the son of Reuel, the son of Ibnijah; (KJV)
​

So that explains two out of the three. As far as Jethro, it is just another name that the man was called. Why? Perhaps the answer lies in the name-meanings. We know that in the Hebrew every name has a meaning, i.e., Lo-Ammi = "not my people," i.e., " Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God." (Hosea 1:9). And Moses means "drawn from the water," for he was 'drawn from the water' by Pharaoh's Daughter, i.e., "And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water." (Exod 2:10).
Further light is shed on the subject by Smith's Bible Dictionary which gives the meanings of the two (three) names as:

Reuel and Raguel: = Friend of God.
Jethro: = Excellence.
​

• Dr. Smith handles the situation with a footnote as follows: "Reuel was probably his proper name, and Jethro his official title." — Smith's Bible Dictionary, 1979 edition, pg. 309
  
  
• (A fine Christian Minister) , in his commentary on Exodus 18:1, also states that the name Jehtro was a title (His Excellency), and Reuel being Moses' Father in law's proper name. — (another Ministry on TV) Exodus Tapeset.
• E.W. Bullinger, in his Companion Bible, states of Jethro that he is Reuel with no further comment except a reference to Ex 2:18. At Ex 2:18, under the name Reuel, Bullinger notes that the name in Hebrew means "friend of God," and that he is the same man as the Raguel of Num 10:29 and that he was "a true worshipper" (of Jehovah), referencing Ex 18:12 (where Jethro dutifully sacrifices to Jehovah). — Companion Bible, ppg. 75, 98.

That Jethro is his title name make sense, for the very definition of Jethro means means "his excellence." May we read it therefore as "his excellency" in title form?

Jethro: Hebrew word #3503 Yithrow (yith-ro'); from # 3499 with pron. suffix; his excellence; Jethro, Moses' father-in-law: KJV-- Jethro. Compare 3500.

#3499 yether (yeh'-ther); from 3498; properly, an overhanging, i.e. (by implication) an excess, superiority, remainder; also a small rope (as hanging free): KJV-- + abundant, cord, exceeding, excellancy (-ent), what they leave, that hath left, plentifully, remnant, residue, rest, string, with.
​

Simply put, Jethro is the biological father of the 7 daughters, and Jethro's biological father is Reuel.

NO JETHRO IS REUEL as seen above...

 

[stovebolts]

NO JETHRO IS REUEL as seen above...

Funny how your sources use the words "Perhaps", yet you are so bold...

Tell me teacher, is Abraham Jacob's biological father?

Gen 32:9 And Jacob said, O God of my father Abraham

Who is Hobab? It was my understanding that Hobab was the Father in Law of Moses?....

Judges 4:11 Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.

You like Strongs...
2246. Chobab
from 2245; cherished; Chobab, father-in-law of Moses:--Hobab.

Which brings us back to...
Numbers 10:29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel.

Your mistake lies in the word father in Exodus 2. Common mistake my friend, don't sweat it.

BTW, I am a student of The Ramban and take the view of The Ramban over that of Rashi or Kaballah where applicable and most certainly over Dr. Smith or Mr. Bullinger.