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Bible Study Genesis 15:18 - HELP!

Pizza

Pizza

Member
18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates—

I don't mean to take this out of context, so we should look at more than this verse, but my question is, what land was God promising to Abrahm's descendants?
 
A great big chunk.. yup real big... now the scripture battle begins... In reading we find a little word as big as that land IF... different folks have different view of that covenant...
TO me it is this simple... had his descendants kept their part of the covenant they would still have that land...

Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
 
Yep! I get yelled at a good deal for teaching the Europeans and the United States need to read their Bibles and to shut up their Pie Holes because all the land from the Euphrates to the Mediterranean and from the Red Sea to somewhere in Lebenon belongs to Israel.

Give up some land for the self proclaimed Palestinian Peoples to make themselves a nation that they have never been? Really? God does not think that is funny... at all. Those Arabs need to find their way to the foot of the Cross, confess their sins and praise God for not letting Ishmael die in the desert, ending their lineage, right there.
 
Sinthesis said:
Strictly speaking, Ishmael is a descendent of Abram.

That said, I believe all has been given to Jesus(Abraham's singular seed), and He gives it to whomever He chooses to His own purposes.
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But God said, "To your descendants..." And He spoke of the 400 years they'd endure, the way I read Genesis 15, God was speaking about many people, not just Jesus.

So, what land was He talking about and who was He promising to give it to? The area encompassed as described is a LOT of land - does this mean Israel will hold all that land someday? Or are those living all over the region now to be considered to be the descendants God spoke of?
 
Even though Ishmael was a child of Abraham, it was Isaac who was identified as his heir. From there it was Jacob who would have the birthright, and the nation of Isreal would stem. Pretty much all of the land the Isrealites conquered toward the end of Exodus and in the book of Joshua was what they were getting. Now it was up to them to keep their end of the covenant, otherwise they would lose their inheritances, which is exactly what happened.

But the thing about that is once Jesus came that "inheritance" was made irrelevant, and replaced by a much greater inheritance, which is what many people fail to understand. It really doesn't matter if Isreal has a nation in this day and age, as our inheritance is with Christ in heaven, not on this earth. So, the whole conflict over who controls what in the middle east is just a pride fueled pissing match between a bunch of nations that have completely missed the point.
 
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The part of the Covenant that deals with land that God is giving to Abram and descendants of Abram covers from the Nile River to the Euphrates River; and this ultimate possession will be completed in the Millennium age. Ezekiel forty through forty eight gives the details of this land distribution.
 
Pizza said:
But God said, "To your descendants..." And He spoke of the 400 years they'd endure, the way I read Genesis 15, God was speaking about many people, not just Jesus.

So, what land was He talking about and who was He promising to give it to? The area encompassed as described is a LOT of land - does this mean Israel will hold all that land someday? Or are those living all over the region now to be considered to be the descendants God spoke of?
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Jos 21:43 ¶ And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 - And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 - There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Jos 23:14 ¶ And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you,and not one thing hath failed thereof.
Jos 23:15 - Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.
Jos 23:16 - When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.​

All the land promises were filled, but God's Worldly People blew it, as was prophesied. Do you believe the promises are to be fulfilled for God's Spiritual People in/by Jesus Christ? How and why would it be different this time?
 
That is just it, I do not KNOW what I believe - that is why I started the thread.

Post 8 says this is all something that will happen in the future.
Posts 7 and 9 say that the promise was filled in the past.
Post 2 goes with posts 7 and 9 in explaining that they DID have it and why they lost it.

I spent many years in churches that taught that almost everything in the old testament that was prophesy, was prophesy still in the future - that most of what was prophsized in the old testament was yet to come. I had real issues with that and I see many here do, too.
 
Pizza said:
That is just it, I do not KNOW what I believe - that is why I started the thread.

Post 8 says this is all something that will happen in the future.
Posts 7 and 9 say that the promise was filled in the past.
Post 2 goes with posts 7 and 9 in explaining that they DID have it and why they lost it.

I spent many years in churches that taught that almost everything in the old testament that was prophesy, was prophesy still in the future - that most of what was prophsized in the old testament was yet to come. I had real issues with that and I see many here do, too.
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Perhaps, you seek the answer in the wrong place. God’s Word, as you can see from the answers here, even among Christians, is controversial. Therefore, if you’re confused about His Word, ask our Heavenly Father for clarity. Will He give it to you? I do not know. That’s between you and Him.
 
Isaiah 19:21
And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.
22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

There are some Christians in that area today. The Coptic Church is active on some level. On judgement day they will be accepted.

eddif
 
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