Genesis Literal or Figurative

[stovebolts]

Coffeelover,

After reading through this thread, it became apparent that your issue isn't whether the earth is round or flat, or if Genesis 1 and 2 are literal or myth. Your issue is one where you call yourself a Christian, and you oppose the idea that another Christian would say that you or others are not Christians based on a world view of a particular text that has nothing to do with ones walk with Christ, but rather ones ideology.

In that regard, I'm with you. We should not say that others are not Christian because on non essential matters, we simply miss the point.

But one thing I would like to say is this. First and foremost scripture is to be looked as a story, not history. When we look at particular scriptures first and foremost as a history lesson, then we've deduced scripture to datapoints and facts and the story looses it's thrust in what was originally trying to be portrayed and we miss the point all together.

So, in short, whether it's taken literal or figurative, this should come secondary to the point being conveyed. And on that note, for those that spend so much time arguing about these data points, it's simply amazing how shallow their understanding when it comes to the story itself.

 

[Pard]

Pard is funny I agree. Funny how he started a thread about nit picking the bible then nit picks the bible.

 

[coffeeelover]

You say some parts are literal and some parts are poetry.

 

[Pard]

You say some parts are literal and some parts are poetry.

Because that's how it is. Learn Hebrew. Then read the Tanakh... Not nit picking, I am reading the Bible properly. It's called exegesis you really should learn what it is and figure it all out because you are making yourself look like an idiot.

 

[coffeeelover]

Because that's how it is. Learn Hebrew. Then read the Tanakh... Not nit picking, I am reading the Bible properly. It's called exegesis you really should learn what it is and figure it all out because you are making yourself look like an idiot.

Don't need to learn Hebrew. Exegesis is just a front by young earthers to justify their preconceived notions. Genesis is not literal.

 

[Strangelove]

You say some parts are literal and some parts are poetry.

?

Brother Coffee:::

1) Did Jesus really die on the cross?
2) Is the Whore of Babylon a real woman?

 

[inhopeofglory]

Genesis is not literal.

You mean "the first few chapters of Genesis aren't literal", in your opinion. An opinion which, by the way, contradicts the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Matthew 19:4-5: "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?"

Jesus believed that Genesis was literal. So should we. He believed the Flood was literal, too.

Matthew 24:37-39: "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."

Do you believe any of Genesis is literal history? Such as, for example, the existence of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, from whom the whole nation of Israel was born?

 

[coffeeelover]

You mean "the first few chapters of Genesis aren't literal", in your opinion. An opinion which, by the way, contradicts the words of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Matthew 19:4-5: "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?"

Jesus believed that Genesis was literal. So should we. He believed the Flood was literal, too.

Matthew 24:37-39: "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."

Do you believe any of Genesis is literal history? Such as, for example, the existence of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, from whom the whole nation of Israel was born?

I don't know what is absolute literal, but I am smart enough to know what isn't. Talking snakes, men wrestling angels, world wide floods are obviously not literal things.

 

[coffeeelover]

?

Brother Coffee:::

1) Did Jesus really die on the cross?
2) Is the Whore of Babylon a real woman?

I am fairly certain Jesus dieing on the cross is an actual event, while the whore of Babylon isn't a real woman.

 

[Strangelove]

I am fairly certain Jesus dieing on the cross is an actual event, while the whore of Babylon isn't a real woman.

Oh...I dont understand. Wern't you pulling Pard up for saying some parts of the Bible are literal and some parts not??:

 

[inhopeofglory]

I don't know what is absolute literal, but I am smart enough to know what isn't. Talking snakes, men wrestling angels, world wide floods are obviously not literal things.

How about talking donkeys? (Numbers 22:22-38) Or is the book of Numbers not literal history either?

What about the biggest one of all, the resurrection? Have you ever seen a man rise from the dead? I haven't. Does that mean it didn't happen as the Bible says it did? Or are the Gospels not literal history?

Is ANY of the Bible literal history?

Why are you so unwilling to accept the supernatural events written in Scripture?

 

[Oats]

What reason do we have to believe that Genesis should be taken figuratively?

 

[coffeeelover]

How about talking donkeys? (Numbers 22:22-38) Or is the book of Numbers not literal history either?

What about the biggest one of all, the resurrection? Have you ever seen a man rise from the dead? I haven't. Does that mean it didn't happen as the Bible says it did? Or are the Gospels not literal history?

Is ANY of the Bible literal history?

Why are you so unwilling to accept the supernatural events written in Scripture?

No talking donkeys aren't literal. As for the resurrection there are schools of thought that holds it is not literal either. That Jesus did not come back in physical form but is resurrect in our hearts.

 

[coffeeelover]

What reason do we have to believe that Genesis should be taken figuratively?

Cause it is written as a fairy tale.

 

[Strangelove]

As for the resurrection there are schools of thought that holds it is not literal either. That Jesus did not come back in physical form but is resurrect in our hearts.

Ouch!

 

[Mike]

No talking donkeys aren't literal. As for the resurrection there are schools of thought that holds it is not literal either. That Jesus did not come back in physical form but is resurrect in our hearts.

CL, you answered the donkey question for yourself, but put the matter of the resurrection of as "schools of thought say...". Earlier, you said you feel He did die but nothing about His resurrection. Are you in this school? I'm thinking so, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Did Jesus physically rise from the grave, according to your belief?

 

[watchman F]

I don't know what is absolute literal, but I am smart enough to know what isn't. Talking snakes, men wrestling angels, world wide floods are obviously not literal things.

Thats your problem you think you are too smart to believe God.

1st Corinthians 1
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

1st Corinthians 2
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


1st Corinthians 3
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's


Should I go on???????

 

[watchman F]

As for the resurrection there are schools of thought that holds it is not literal either. That Jesus did not come back in physical form but is resurrect in our hearts.

Yep I am saying it, you are not a christian.

1st Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Any one who reject the literal physical bodily resurrection of Christ CANNOT be saved. It is one of the named specification for salvation.

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[watchman F]

What reason do we have to believe that Genesis should be taken figuratively?

Lack of faith, that is why people do not believe Genesis.

 

[Pard]

Cause it is written as a fairy tale.

1IN THE beginning God (prepared, formed, fashioned, and) created the heavens and the earth.(A) 2The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light; and there was light.
4And God saw that the light was good (suitable, pleasant) and He approved it; and God separated the light from the darkness.(B)
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament [the expanse of the sky] in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters [below] from the waters [above].
7And God made the firmament [the expanse] and separated the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse. And it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heavens. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be collected into one place [of standing], and let the dry land appear. And it was so.
10God called the dry land Earth, and the accumulated waters He called Seas. And God saw that this was good (fitting, admirable) and He approved it.
11And God said, Let the earth put forth [tender] vegetation: plants yielding seed and fruit trees yielding fruit whose seed is in itself, each according to its kind, upon the earth. And it was so.
12The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed according to their own kinds and trees bearing fruit in which was their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good (suitable, admirable) and He approved it.
13And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be signs and tokens [of God's provident care], and [to mark] seasons, days, and years,(C)
15And let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light upon the earth. And it was so.
16And God made the two great lights--the greater light (the sun) to rule the day and the lesser light (the moon) to rule the night. He also made the stars.
17And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18To rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good (fitting, pleasant) and He approved it.
19And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly and swarm with living creatures, and let birds fly over the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.
21God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good (suitable, admirable) and He approved it.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let the fowl multiply in the earth.
23And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creeping things, and [wild] beasts of the earth according to their kinds. And it was so.
25And God made the [wild] beasts of the earth according to their kinds, and domestic animals according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good (fitting, pleasant) and He approved it.
26God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.(D)
27So God created man in His own image, in the image and likeness of God He created him; male and female He created them.(E)
28And God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it [using all its vast resources in the service of God and man]; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and over every living creature that moves upon the earth.
29And God said, See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the land and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
30And to all the animals on the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the ground--to everything in which there is the breath of life--I have given every green plant for food. And it was so.
31And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good (suitable, pleasant) and He approved it completely. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

Genesis 1 AMP


Does that sound like a fairy tale? Hardly, it sounds like a technical report! Does any fairy tale go into such detail? Does Red Riding Hood go into detail about HOW exactly the wolf talks? Does Cinderella go into detail about HOW mice talk or HOW the pumpkin turned into a chariot or HOW her rags became a dress? No, they do not. Fairy tales leave things to the imagination, Genesis 1 does not leave anything to the imagination!



(I used the Amplified Translation because it does a very good job at getting across the original Hebrew.)