Glen Beck - A Mormon Espousing Christian Theology???

[Mike]

.....there may be a third reason...

...waiting with baited breath...

 

[Tabasco Breath]

...waiting with baited breath...

As any salesperson will tell you, know your audience, and sell yourself to their sensiblities. Beck knows his audience, kind of like the event he put on in DC is catering to a audience that serves a means in light of ratings, book sales, and as he himself will tell you, "I could give a flying crap about the political process." Making money, on the other hand, is to be taken very seriously, and controversy is its own coinage."

Let's face it, his audience is the Christian right and he uses self serving controversy to seperate the sheeps and goats, but he is fleecing the flock.

 

[Mike]

As any salesperson will tell you, know your audience, and sell yourself to their sensiblities. Beck knows his audience, kind of like the event he put on in DC is catering to a audience that serves a means in light of ratings, book sales, and as he himself will tell you, "I could give a flying crap about the political process." Making money, on the other hand, is to be taken very seriously, and controversy is its own coinage."

Let's face it, his audience is the Christian right and he uses self serving controversy to seperate the sheeps and goats, but he is fleecing the flock.

Well then, this would seem to fall under option 2 of my post. He really doesn't believe in the Christian doctrine. Good post and spot on, but darn! I was really hoping you had another possibility I hadn't considered. :D

 

[Mieke]

Yeah...Glenn Beck is a shock jock. He uses whatever works to get ratings and money.

He admits he became a Mormon because his (now) wife was hot (and Mormon).

When working as a shock jock for a radio station, he called the wife of a rival station's DJ, asked her about her very recent miscarriage, and ended with "See, he can't even make a baby right!"

He abandoned his first wife and kids for a job (can't remember if it was before or after he went to AA).

He peddles fear to sell Goldline products (of which, he gets a cut).

He will say anything to anyone, so long as he thinks he can get some money or attention out of it.

 

[mamre]

I know that lots of folks are suspicious of Glen Beck concerning his religious views.

Although I do not watch his show on a regular basis, I have seen nothing (so far) of him attempting to promote the LDS church.

What I have seen is him promoting Jesus Christ, and not any particular religious denomination.
And I give him a big thumbs up on that!!!

Sissy,

You ARE a true Christian!

Now Todd is annoyed because Glenn is an LDS saying what is correct. Since, in his (Todd's) mind Mormons cannot be correct according to his beliefs, then Glen must be "suspicious." What Glen is saying though is what the LDS stands for. There is no other name under Heaven through which we can be saved. Look at the LDS scriptures it supports it completely.

What Todd is demonstrating is nothing less than a complete misunderstanding of what the LDS doctrine on Graces is all about.

The Grace of Jesus Christ is in fact Jesus doing what we cannot do for ourselves, paying for our sins (our own blood is not worth anything, His is). What we CAN do, however, is to repent of our sins so Grace can have an effect. IF we don't repent there is NO AMOUNT OF GRACE in the eternity that can save us. There is NO FREE LUNCH, Todd. Grace creates the conditions for us to repent. Without Grace we can repent as much as we want, but we cannot be saved. But because there is Grace we CAN repent. THAT'S what Todd can't seem to grasp.

mamre

 

[mamre]

.....there may be a third reason...

Todd demonstrates a complete ignorance of the LDS Doctrine on Grace.

Todd, you need to read things in context (as Christians often say). You have an incorrect preconception of what LDS believe about Grace.

LDS believe that Jesus paid for the sins of men. The fact that He paid for those sins doesn't mean everyone is saved. For that payment to have an effect men need to to accept that gift. The way to accept that gift is by repenting, by rejecting the wrong things that they do. That is what the BOM means "after all we can do." It is not a 90% + 10% proposition. No matter what men do, he cannot be saved by repenting alone. Jesus didn't pay only 90% percent or what percentage you come up with of our sins. He paid all of our individual sins, I repeat, ALL of our individual sins.

He paid because our currency (our mortal blood is not worth anything). His currency, His blood, could pay for our transgressions, so He paid. That means our sins are paid for, but it will only be forgiven IF we do our part, our part is to REPENT.

WITHOUT REPENTANCE THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF GRACE THAT CAN SAVE YOU. ON THE OTHER HAND, WITHOUT GRACE, THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF REPENTANCE THAT CAN SAVE YOU EITHER. That's LDS doctrine on Grace.

mamre

 

[mamre]

If you watched the video in the OP, you'll see him espouse fundamental Christian beliefs.If this is how he feels, he needs to get out of that cult. Just because there are good people there (in a worldly way - and no doubt there are), this isn't reason enough to stick around. If he does believe their doctrine, then I believe he was being intellectually dishonest in the OP video.

Hello Mike,

Try to take a different look at what you have said above:

He is spousing the fundamental Christian beliefs because that's what the Mormon Church stands for on Grace. That is so because THE LDS CHURCH IS A CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

Mormons believe that WITHOUT GRACE there is no salvation. Jesus is the ONLY NAME GIVEN under the heavens through which mankind can be save. Jesus paid fall all of our sins, not just a percentage of it.

Mormons DON'T BELIEVE that man can be save by works (repentance) alone.

I will repeat lest you didn't catch it:

THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF GRACE THAT CAN SAVE YOU IF YOU DON'T REPENT FROM YOUR SINS.
THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF REPENTANCE (WORKS) THAT CAN SAVE YOU WITHOUT GRACE.

So, Glen is not trying to be more "Protestant" to the world. He is simply stating what the LDS Church believes about the doctrine of Grace, period.

You are startled by that because YOU (or Todd and others) DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LDS BELIEF ABOUT GRACE, period.

mamre

 

[Pizzaguy]

First of all, I don't really think I like this "Todd" guy. I thought his shots at the dancing preacher were out of line and snotty. Not at all Christ-like or pastor material.

I have to give this to the Mormons...they promote morality, resposnibility and right thinking, and this is what Glen Beck is doing.

I was particualrly grateful for their help with Prop 8 out here in California

Beck is not prostelitizing, he is speaking from the heart...and while he is hard to listen to all the time, he speaks truth about America and our heritage


Morality and right thinking are not the sole possession of Christianity

I know that lots of folks are suspicious of Glen Beck concerning his religious views.

Although I do not watch his show on a regular basis, I have seen nothing (so far) of him attempting to promote the LDS church.

What I have seen is him promoting Jesus Christ, and not any particular religious denomination.
And I give him a big thumbs up on that!!!

As much as many here won't be able to withstand this, fact is, a Mormon CAN have a relationship with Christ. My sister is one such example. Her theological beliefs DO vary from mine, but she calls on the name of Christ for her salvation the same as I do.

 

[Mike]

As much as many here won't be able to withstand this, fact is, a Mormon CAN have a relationship with Christ. My sister is one such example. Her theological beliefs DO vary from mine, but she calls on the name of Christ for her salvation the same as I do.

Mark, if anyone were to review every one of my posts, they will find at no time have I determined that anyone is going to Hell, because that's not for me to know or try to speculate about. I would make the same statement about anyone's capability of knowing Christ, irregardless of their circumstances. I believe this comes down to a "church" that has has deceived many, many people by promoting a false revelation by Joseph Smith. I person who is taught a false testimony of Christ that contradicts the biblical Jesus stands a very real chance of not knowing Him.

I trust your knowledge of your sister is correct and could never speculate otherwise. I hope you'll consider what I have to say to mamre, all things considered. You know how I have outrageous regard for you and your faith, for what that's worth. ;)

Hello Mike,

Try to take a different look at what you have said above:

He is spousing the fundamental Christian beliefs because that's what the Mormon Church stands for on Grace. That is so because THE LDS CHURCH IS A CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

Mormons believe that WITHOUT GRACE there is no salvation. Jesus is the ONLY NAME GIVEN under the heavens through which mankind can be save. Jesus paid fall all of our sins, not just a percentage of it.

Mormons DON'T BELIEVE that man can be save by works (repentance) alone.

I will repeat lest you didn't catch it:

THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF GRACE THAT CAN SAVE YOU IF YOU DON'T REPENT FROM YOUR SINS.
THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF REPENTANCE (WORKS) THAT CAN SAVE YOU WITHOUT GRACE.

So, Glen is not trying to be more "Protestant" to the world. He is simply stating what the LDS Church believes about the doctrine of Grace, period.

You are startled by that because YOU (or Todd and others) DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LDS BELIEF ABOUT GRACE, period.

mamre

Where to start, where to start, where to start...

Mamre, had we not spent as much time as we did almost 1 year ago, I wouldn't be nearly as cautious with you. As things were, you were defiantly head strong in your dismissal of core Christian doctrine and refused to acknowledge that you were a member of the Mormon church, though I asked you directly a number of times. I wonder why you would not be forthcoming. I would have saved us both a lot of time in just understanding where we were both coming from. At the time, I was involved with a Jehovah's Witness with a much more fruitful approach. I came to be very fond of him and respected his give-and-take style.

I'm not sure where you arrived at God's Grace in your response to my post. This would appear to be a departure from this thread AND your approach from our past conversations.

Joseph Smith - a hunter of riches, has always brought to mind this scripture:

Jeremiah 23
"21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds."

Smith's entire testimony of his revelation fails to meet the test that Scripture stands up to; you know... the one we're not supposed to add or subract from? His motivations were not square, his additional testimony was false, and his understanding of Jesus was not true. Rather than go into all of the departures of the Mormons faith from biblical Christianity, I'll simply bring it all together and say that J.S. stole from the Fullness of Christ. God was not created, did not dwell as a person on another planet, did not ascend to be the god of our planet, did not create the brothers Jesus and Satan, the Holy Spirit did not have physical relations with Mary, Jesus DID rise in the flesh, and Jesus NEVER returned to have a wife in the region of Central America.

I do not know what is to come of someone who does not acknowledge Christ as Fully God, and I will not speculate. I will not say that Mormons cannot know Christ, despite the false image that Mormon doctrine has created. As for the Mormon church being a Christian church or denomination, tell that to the Mormon going door-to-door that doesn't accept the testimony of a Christian and continues to evangelize him. We have that much in common. We both believe it is in the interest of the other person to get away from where they are at.

If our interaction had started with your post here, my response to you would be much different.

 

[Free]

As much as many here won't be able to withstand this, fact is, a Mormon CAN have a relationship with Christ. My sister is one such example. Her theological beliefs DO vary from mine, but she calls on the name of Christ for her salvation the same as I do.

If someone truly has a relationship with Christ, then they cannot be Mormon and vice versa. The Mormon Christ is fundamentally and irreconcilably different the Christ of the Bible.

 

[Pizzaguy]

If someone truly has a relationship with Christ, then they cannot be Mormon and vice versa. The Mormon Christ is fundamentally and irreconcilably different the Christ of the Bible.

My sister says that, when someone says that - ask them just HOW the one "Christ" is different from the "other".

(I WISH I could get her on here, but she abhors all message boards and forums.)

 

[Mike]

My sister says that, when someone says that - ask them just HOW the one "Christ" is different from the "other".

(I WISH I could get her on here, but she abhors all message boards and forums.)

Mark,

It's the nature of Christ and His Full Deity that's different. Think about it in reverse. If Christ was created by god (small g intended) and god was created, living on another planet like you and me, Who Created him?

And that gets to the ultimate problem that I have in including them in the Church. They reject the Fullness of His Godhood. God didn't sacrifice Himself. He sent a lesser, created being to do it. And that wouldn't accomplish what Christ came to do, if we believe what WE believe.

 

[warhorse]

I'll say on the outset, this is a 9+ minute video clip, but I believe this is interesting and important to watch as Glenn Beck appears to be re-defining himself and emerging as a thought leader in faith. He is garnering more and more attention because of his bold messages of faith. There's a problem, though. As most of us know, Glenn Beck is a self proclaimed Mormon. Why then is he professing theology that flies in the face of Mormonism and very closely aligns with Christianity?

One of two things appears to be happening. Either:

1. He has found the Truth in the Christian understanding of salvation and who Jesus is.

OR

2. He is professing beliefs that he, as a Mormon, doesn't truly believe.

Todd Friel does a great job in this clip of calling Beck to the carpet. Beck must be honest in what he proclaims. Either he is a Mormon or a Christian. Millions of people are paying attention to him as he becomes more and more identified by his faith as opposed to his politics. We need to be aware of where he stands and what he's saying. If he holds Mormon beliefs and is falsely making these claims of faith, there is the risk that he could have an end goal in attracting unsuspecting listeners to the Mormon faith. He's an enigma. I just don't know what to make of this re-invented Glenn Beck.

[video=youtube;UoiwZ3HoJMM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoiwZ3HoJMM[/video]

Many who love and believe in christ, find there way into churches that do not discearn doctrine properly, from what i have seen of Glen Beck his own studies of scripture have led him to a true faith in christ.

 

[TonkaTim]

Mormonism is very subtly deceptive. At first it appears to proclaim Christ. Mormons claim to be Christians. They will appear to proclaim the Christ, but they always hand you another gospel, the gospel of Joseph Smith.

In their Articles of Faith, one finds quickly they are works based;
"3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
Articles of Faith | Mormon.org

They also teach that ALL will be resurrected and go to Heaven, even the wicked;
God's Plan of Happiness | Mormon.org
"Immortality—One of God’s Greatest Gifts
Resurrected Jesus Christ

If you could have one wish, what would it be?

Most of us would probably say we want to live forever. That’s exactly what God gave to each of us when He sent His son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die for us and to atone for our sins. It’s called resurrection and everyone born on earth, even wicked people, will receive this gift of immortality (1 Corinthians 15:22).

On the third day after His Crucifixion, Jesus Christ became the first person to be resurrected. His spirit was reunited with His glorified, perfected body and He could no longer die. When Christ’s friends went to visit His tomb, angels said, “He is not here: for he is risen, as he said†(Matthew 28:6).

“Will I go to heaven?â€
Yes! God will judge all men fairly and reward them appropriately with a place within His kingdom."

Their teachings blaspheme the Holy Spirit by denying the truth of the completed work done by Christ on the cross.
Their teachings also declare the lie Satan told in the Garden.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: - Genesis 3:4

 

[proveallthings]

Consider this. Suppose you had a brother who fell out of faith and left the Church. Would your pastor or any pastor you know forbid you to associate with him and demand that you sever all ties with him? Cults do. I wouldn't ever sever ties, because I'd want to make every effort to love him back to faith, and my pastor would support me.

Mike,
I'm just looking through some old posts and this one caught my attention because of Glenn Beck. First of all, you should know that I am a Latter Day Saint and enjoy and learn much from these forums. I'm sure I know what the church teaches better than you and certainly better than the Scott guy in the video. The quotes from Glenn Beck are dead-on, pure LDS doctrine. The tactics this video guy used could be used just as easily to show how two different books of the Bible contradict each other. It would be the same as someone taking quotes out of context from a calculous text book and comparing it with a basic geometry book to prove that calculous was heresy. He was obviously not trying to understand, but to make a case against Mormonism and Glenn Beck.

You suggested two possible conclusions that we could come to from this, but neither are correct. There is a third possible conclusion, which can be the only correct one. That is, you nor the guy in the video have even a fundamental understanding of the teaches or believes of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

You have accepted as fact what others have said about us instead of seeking to truly understand. The comment above is a good example. Mormons have never even come close to the doctrine of shunning. Any good Mormon would feel the same as you do on this subject. I know that this is a practice of the JWs, however, which makes me cringe. So does that mean we aren't a cult anymore?

Another example of your ignorance was in another thread where you suggested that we changed our name from Mormon to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as a publicity ploy. Nothing could be further from the truth. The term Mormon Church came from those who were persecuting, mobbing, luting and murdering the Latter Day Saints in the early years. The title we have now has always been our official name.

I know you are sincerely trying to promote the good name of Christ and I commend you for this effort. We all have blind spots, including myself, and I hope you don't take offense at what I have said here. I will be glad to discuss the doctrines of "Mormonism" with you at any time privately or in this forum, if you are interested in a more complete understanding of this very misunderstood Christian faith.

Thanks for listening,
proveallthings

 

[Mike]

You suggested two possible conclusions that we could come to from this, but neither are correct. There is a third possible conclusion, which can be the only correct one. That is, you nor the guy in the video have even a fundamental understanding of the teaches or believes of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

So, PAT's, I'm glad you chimed in. A little history for you and then a question. I am 44 now, and was brought to faith in my mid twenties. We had neighbors who were Mormon and were very secretive about their church. They said they were interested in possibly leaving their church and wanted to visit mine. I was delighted and spent an evening telling him all about my faith and my church. At the end of the night, he said, "Well you know, I asked you first, so maybe it's only fair I invite you to my church first. He never intended to visit Christian churches, it was a back handed way of getting us to their Mormon church.

Related in a little way, why is it that Mormons will claim that they are as much a part of Christianity as others, but if I answer the door and explain that Jesus is my strength, the Mormon missionary will still attempt to witness to me. Why is that? If I were going door to door and came across a response like that, I'd be inclined to give him a fist pump or a bear hug or to pray. I wouldn't witness further to convince him he was on the wrong road. :

 

[proveallthings]

So, PAT's, I'm glad you chimed in. A little history for you and then a question. I am 44 now, and was brought to faith in my mid twenties. We had neighbors who were Mormon and were very secretive about their church. They said they were interested in possibly leaving their church and wanted to visit mine. I was delighted and spent an evening telling him all about my faith and my church. At the end of the night, he said, "Well you know, I asked you first, so maybe it's only fair I invite you to my church first. He never intended to visit Christian churches, it was a back handed way of getting us to their Mormon church.

Related in a little way, why is it that Mormons will claim that they are as much a part of Christianity as others, but if I answer the door and explain that Jesus is my strength, the Mormon missionary will still attempt to witness to me. Why is that? If I were going door to door and came across a response like that, I'd be inclined to give him a fist pump or a bear hug or to pray. I wouldn't witness further to convince him he was on the wrong road. :

Mike, I can't speak for those Mormons you experienced many years ago. That is not a method I have ever heard taught in the church. I do, however, believe that the more we seek to understand another's point of view the more open that person will be to understanding mine. A strategy I would love to see more of from you toward us. Of course deception is not an element that would be conducive to that endeavor. I personally have attended many churches and Bible studies of other faiths, being edified and gaining greater respect for their beliefs. I often find that they are not as different from me as I had supposed.

I was once a full time missionary like the ones you refer to. The answer to your question is very simple. From a missionary's point of view, if you are a Christian earnestly seeking to follow Christ why wouldn't you of all people would be thrilled to learn that He has called Apostles in our day, that in this age of conflicting ideas within Christianity he has reestablished his priesthood authority on earth to prepare for his second coming. That Christ is not distant, but speaks to men today as in times of old. Why would that not be joyful news to any Christian? The missionary's don't believe you are on the wrong road if you believe in Christ. They believe you are on the right road and would rejoice in further enlightenment on that road.

I hope that helps.

 

[Mike]

Hi friend,

Your answer did make sense. Thank you for sharing. I disagree with a number of things, but from your perspective I understand better your POV. Understanding is fine and almost always beneficial, but I think it's important to avoid not putting other belief systems on the same level when you come to understand. As a Mormon, you likely would not be inclined to put orthodox Christianity on the same level as Mormonism. I get that.

The answer to your question is very simple. From a missionary's point of view, if you are a Christian earnestly seeking to follow Christ why wouldn't you of all people would be thrilled to learn that He has called Apostles in our day, that in this age of conflicting ideas within Christianity he has reestablished his priesthood authority on earth to prepare for his second coming.

Most Mormons I know are wonderful people in their commitment to family/friends, communities and to their faith. The Mormon who has caused me grief has been the exception rather than the rule. I appreciate your willingness to talk about this openly. It's also with the understanding of our ToS that I acknowledge you are in a bit of a tough spot. You must take care not to "promote" Mormonism, but you can state why you believe what you do. I have no limitations, besides being respectful of you personally. Not that we are arguing or debating the matter. Again, I appreciate your amicable, forthright approach.

The quote above from your last post belies the our common ground. You must understand that Christians do not find value in the testimony of Joseph Smith. I know you do. When he said that he had a new testimony that updated and trumped all others, he said that all other testimonies were wrong in some way, and he had the "correct" testimony. We consider the reasonable logic in believing his testimony compared to biblical testimonies with much supporting documentation and many more witnesses. We also consider some of the theological flaws which lead to the determination that his overall testimony is false.

I'm not sure you want to go down the road of a conversation about the testimony of Joseph Smith, so I'll stop there. I'd be happy to go deeper and keep things respectable if you are interested, even if we do our own thing in the "1-on-1 Debate Forum". This isn't a "debate", but that would allow us to discuss this between the two of us if you are interested.

Again, thank you for your input. Be blessed,

Mike

 

[proveallthings]

I'd be happy to go deeper and keep things respectable if you are interested, even if we do our own thing in the "1-on-1 Debate Forum". This isn't a "debate", but that would allow us to discuss this between the two of us if you are interested.



Mike

Mike,
This sounds enlightening and fun. You are more familiar with these forums than I, so I will go with your recommendation on which to use. I think the best approach for us to each gain greater understanding of the other would be to start with an exploration of what is common ground. This will take more effort and discipline, but I believe will be much more profitable. It will tend to reduce contention and be more inviting to the spirit in our discussion.

I would have three goals or desired outcomes from this. One would be for me to be able to present your position to you well enough for you to acknowledge that you personally feel completely understood. I know I probably could not do that at this point, so I expect to learn a lot about your position in this experience. Another outcome I would hope for is that you would at least have an increased understanding of my position. I really believe that if we work at it and be patient with and forgiving of each other, we can each come away from this experience with a deep respect and love for each other, even if we still have areas of disagreement. That would be my third goal.

These are my thoughts. How would you like to procede?

Sincerely,
proveallthings

 

[Mike]

These are my thoughts. How would you like to procede?

Sincerely,
proveallthings

Awesome! I'll PM you.

Mike