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Gnosticism.

D

Douglas Summers

Member
Paul had many false beliefs of the The Doctrine of Christ that he had to defend against. One of them was Gnosticism (knowledge, science). Genostics assigned Christ a subordinate position of His true deity and Godhead, and devalued His finished redemptive work as not complete. That He was Emmanuel but not equal with God, and that the angel host, formed a bridge, each angel have more power than the next to which Christ was a member and the head between them and God. This included the worship of angels. It includes science and duelism. Deulism is the belief that God and Satan have equal power between good and evil like day and night and the more knowledge and science one has, the closer one is to achieving a higher position to God. (Satan has no power than what God allows!. It is also believed that God can be a Goddess. Paul refutes this belief (Col. 2:18-19) (1 Tim. 6:20-21) Truth can not contradict the Scriptures. (Col. 2:18-19)
18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

(1 Tim. 6:20-21)
20O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 21Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Those who think that Gods Mercy and Grace covers false doctrines, and even worse, do not know the Doctrine of Christ, who's lack of understanding and contending not for the faith contributes to the spreading of falsehoods, is under the anathema of God.
(Gal. 1:6-9)
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
In His Eternal Mercy and Grace
Douglas Summers
 
Douglas Summers said:
Deulism is the belief that God and Satan have equal power between good and evil like day and night and the more knowledge and science one has, the closer one is to achieving a higher position to God.
Click to expand...
Dualism also included the idea of spirit being good and matter being evil.
It is part of the reason that Paul was mocked by the people of Athens who loved to discuss philosophy. (which was religion)
They understood "salvation" to be the release of the spirit from the imprisonment in the material body. So when Paul told them about the resurrection, they thought he was crazy.

The spirit/matter duality is part of the teaching of the neo-platonists. (Plotinus, et. al.)
They believed in one god (monad) which was pure spirit.
From that monad emanated beings which were less spirit and more material.
The neo-platonists were influential in Alexandria of Egypt, a major Christian center, where Arius was a teacher. HE incorporated the neo-platonist ideas into his understanding of Christ ax being very like the Father (homoiousis, similar in essence) but not equal in deity with the Father. (homoousis = same in essence)

Arianism was condemned at the Council of Nicaea in 325 but continued to be the teaching of a large portion of the church for a long time. Clovis I, first king of the Franks (466-511) was converted to Christianity by his wife and then forced all the Franks to accept the Catholic (Nicaean, not Roman) faith.
The Vandals, a Germanic people that ravaged Gaul, Spain, and North Africa in the 4th–5th centuries and sacked Rome in AD 455, were also Arians.

A heresy very similar to that if Arius continues today as the teaching of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Jehovah's Witnesses.

As does the heresy of Monarchical Modalism (one God who manifests Himself at different times in different "modes" as father, Son or Holy Spirit) in the United Pentecostal Church.

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

iakov the fool
 
Jim Parker said:
Dualism also included the idea of spirit being good and matter being evil.
It is part of the reason that Paul was mocked by the people of Athens who loved to discuss philosophy. (which was religion)
They understood "salvation" to be the release of the spirit from the imprisonment in the material body. So when Paul told them about the resurrection, they thought he was crazy.

The spirit/matter duality is part of the teaching of the neo-platonists. (Plotinus, et. al.)
They believed in one god (monad) which was pure spirit.
From that monad emanated beings which were less spirit and more material.
The neo-platonists were influential in Alexandria of Egypt, a major Christian center, where Arius was a teacher. HE incorporated the neo-platonist ideas into his understanding of Christ ax being very like the Father (homoiousis, similar in essence) but not equal in deity with the Father. (homoousis = same in essence)

Arianism was condemned at the Council of Nicaea in 325 but continued to be the teaching of a large portion of the church for a long time. Clovis I, first king of the Franks (466-511) was converted to Christianity by his wife and then forced all the Franks to accept the Catholic (Nicaean, not Roman) faith.
The Vandals, a Germanic people that ravaged Gaul, Spain, and North Africa in the 4th–5th centuries and sacked Rome in AD 455, were also Arians.

A heresy very similar to that if Arius continues today as the teaching of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Jehovah's Witnesses.

As does the heresy of Monarchical Modalism (one God who manifests Himself at different times in different "modes" as father, Son or Holy Spirit) in the United Pentecostal Church.

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

iakov the fool
Click to expand...
Thanks Jim, I knew some about the Alexandria Egyptian part, The rest I did not know.
 
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame. 8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity. 9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings. 10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the LORD. 11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 
'They' prolly being the Gnostics themselves.

Gnosticism covers a broad range of beliefs, usually it was not considered to exist yet in its later form in Paul's time -- the phrase "incipient Gnosticism" is usually used when New Testament writers are warning against heresies of the type that would later be called Gnosticism.

The word 'gnosis' in Greek simply means 'knowledge'.

Professor Elaine Pagels has written much about Gnosticism. I think she likes it TOO much.

There were many forms of it - perhaps one of the wildest was "Merovingian Gnosticism", which held that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were married, and she was pregnant with Christ's child when He was crucified; that He did not really die but SURVIVED the Cross - and they both went to France and had more kids. Holy Blood, Holy Grail, etc.

On one board my username was DancesWithGnostics, ya know, like DancesWithWolves -- Kevin Costner was NOT A WOLF -- just danced (communicated) with them.

Gnostics today go gaga over the apochryphal GOSPEL OF THOMAS, and anything about Essenes, New Agey stuff, etc.
 
Anto9us said:
'They' prolly being the Gnostics themselves.

Gnosticism covers a broad range of beliefs, usually it was not considered to exist yet in its later form in Paul's time -- the phrase "incipient Gnosticism" is usually used when New Testament writers are warning against heresies of the type that would later be called Gnosticism.

The word 'gnosis' in Greek simply means 'knowledge'.

Professor Elaine Pagels has written much about Gnosticism. I think she likes it TOO much.

There were many forms of it - perhaps one of the wildest was "Merovingian Gnosticism", which held that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were married, and she was pregnant with Christ's child when He was crucified; that He did not really die but SURVIVED the Cross - and they both went to France and had more kids. Holy Blood, Holy Grail, etc.

On one board my username was DancesWithGnostics, ya know, like DancesWithWolves -- Kevin Costner was NOT A WOLF -- just danced (communicated) with them.

Gnostics today go gaga over the apochryphal GOSPEL OF THOMAS, and anything about Essenes, New Agey stuff, etc.
Click to expand...
I knew a woman who fancied herself a Gnostic Christian.
The rest of us knew her as a wicked gossip who owned a business. And when her customers would leave if her friends were in the shop they'd talk those departed customers down something fierce. So much for her Christian side huh?

The marriage to Mary of Magdalena is also something as I recall that certain Orthodox Christians hold as true. Including the child. The Gospel of Mary in the Apocrypha is supposedly her accounts.
 
Anto9us said:
'They' prolly being the Gnostics themselves.

Gnosticism covers a broad range of beliefs, usually it was not considered to exist yet in its later form in Paul's time -- the phrase "incipient Gnosticism" is usually used when New Testament writers are warning against heresies of the type that would later be called Gnosticism.

The word 'gnosis' in Greek simply means 'knowledge'.

Professor Elaine Pagels has written much about Gnosticism. I think she likes it TOO much.

There were many forms of it - perhaps one of the wildest was "Merovingian Gnosticism", which held that Mary Magdalene and Jesus were married, and she was pregnant with Christ's child when He was crucified; that He did not really die but SURVIVED the Cross - and they both went to France and had more kids. Holy Blood, Holy Grail, etc.

On one board my username was DancesWithGnostics, ya know, like DancesWithWolves -- Kevin Costner was NOT A WOLF -- just danced (communicated) with them.

Gnostics today go gaga over the apochryphal GOSPEL OF THOMAS, and anything about Essenes, New Agey stuff, etc.
Click to expand...
People go gaga for anything but the real thing.
 
We have a few Orthodox here, hopefully they'll chime in about Jesus ever getting married. I do know they aren't required to have all their beliefs in lockstep, that there's some wiggle room left open ... you have me curious if that's in the allowable realm.

I didn't know the whole thing with France was a gnostic idea.

Is the gospel of Mary in the apocrypha? My Google-fu says no.
 
"Certain Orthodox christians do hold some off-the-wall ideas apart from the regular Orthodox - Greek Orthodox - eastern Orthodox churches (my son is Greek Orthodox)

But I never heard of any that think Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and had kids.

It is the off-the-wall churches that didn't accept the Council of Chalcedon that are different from rest of Orthodox, imo.
 
Razeontherock said:
We have a few Orthodox here, hopefully they'll chime in about Jesus ever getting married.
Click to expand...
Jesus never married.
THere is absolutely no reason to imagine that the writers of the Gospels just forgot that little item or intentionally left it out.
Jesus was born to redeem mankind from the effect of sin (death) by his own death and resurrection, not to get married and raise a family.
A person has to be a little bit silly to believe that junk.

iakov the fool
 
Razeontherock said:
We have a few Orthodox here, hopefully they'll chime in about Jesus ever getting married. I do know they aren't required to have all their beliefs in lockstep, that there's some wiggle room left open ... you have me curious if that's in the allowable realm.

I didn't know the whole thing with France was a gnostic idea.

Is the gospel of Mary in the apocrypha? My Google-fu says no.
Click to expand...
Gospel of Mary of Magdala
Text from the Papyrus Berolinensis
http://www.maryofmagdala.com/GMary_Text/gmary_text.html



The Gospel of Mary is an apocryphal book discovered in 1896 in a 5th-century papyrus codex written in Sahidic Coptic. The codex Papyrus Berolinensis 8502 was purchased in Cairo by German scholar Karl Reinhardt.

Although the work is popularly known as the Gospel of Mary, it is not technically classed as a gospel by scholastic consensus because "the term 'gospel' is used as a label for any written text that is primarily focused on recounting the teachings and/or activities of Jesus during his adult life".[1]

Continues http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
 
blessedsmithereens said:
Gospel of Mary of Magdala
Text from the Papyrus Berolinensis
http://www.maryofmagdala.com/GMary_Text/gmary_text.html



The Gospel of Mary is an apocryphal book discovered in 1896 in a 5th-century papyrus codex written in Sahidic Coptic. The codex Papyrus Berolinensis 8502 was purchased in Cairo by German scholar Karl Reinhardt.

Although the work is popularly known as the Gospel of Mary, it is not technically classed as a gospel by scholastic consensus because "the term 'gospel' is used as a label for any written text that is primarily focused on recounting the teachings and/or activities of Jesus during his adult life".[1]

Continues http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mary
Click to expand...

An apocryphal book yes; part of the Apocrypha, included in the KJV of 1611? No.
 
Razeontherock said:
An apocryphal book yes; part of the Apocrypha, included in the KJV of 1611? No.
Click to expand...
I never made any mention of its inclusion in the KJV of 1611.
You do know that isn't the first bible produced, right?


The Gospel of Mary of Magdala: Jesus and the First Woman Apostle
by Karen L. King (Polebridge Press, Santa Rosa, California, 2003), pp. 3-12
Early Christianity & the Gospel of Mary http://www.gnosis.org/library/GMary-King-Intro.html
 
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