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HeIsRisen2018

HeIsRisen2018

Dramione love 3333
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I was just wondering what Jesus meant in John 8:11 when He said that since He was and is the only one who remains sinless. I'm not even sure whether or not He meant willingly sinning since a lot of us (although we repent afterwards) do that sometimes. I would be lying if I told you that I never did. Because even though I'm not proud of it by any means, sometimes I just want to do what I want to do, and since the Lord knows everything about us, even better than we know ourselves, I'm sure He knows that that is considered normal and regular human behavior. If He didn't know and expect that, then Jesus wouldn't have even been born in the first place because there wouldn't be any need for a Savior.
 
It's said in a few different verses.

Repent. Turn from your sins. Sin no more. Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. I don't think this is something to gloss over because God is understanding and loving, because it's one message that is said several times in several different ways.

Mathew 19:23-26 adds another element to this though. Humanly speaking it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. It's my hope to one day be free of the sins I have tried and failed to remove on my own. Because with God all things are possible. So keep trying to resist sin, and keep trying to be close to God. I think the two goals are intertwined.
 
Not_Now.Soon said:
It's said in a few different verses.

Repent. Turn from your sins. Sin no more. Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. I don't think this is something to gloss over because God is understanding and loving, because it's one message that is said several times in several different ways.

Mathew 19:23-26 adds another element to this though. Humanly speaking it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. It's my hope to one day be free of the sins I have tried and failed to remove on my own. Because with God all things are possible. So keep trying to resist sin, and keep trying to be close to God. I think the two goals are intertwined.
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That's an extremely good point when you put it like that, but I do believe that I heard somewhere that we all are sinners God looks at us as perfect already since we are saved and all of our past sins are forgotten. Maybe that's what you meant when you said that although that will never be humanly possible, it isn't impossible at all for God since the blood of Christ was shed for us. :cross
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
That's an extremely good point when you put it like that, but I do believe that I heard somewhere that we all are sinners God looks at us as perfect already since we are saved and all of our past sins are forgotten. Maybe that's what you meant when you said that although that will never be humanly possible, it isn't impossible at all for God since the blood of Christ was shed for us. :cross
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The problem is, because God knows our faults, we figure that He will forgive us and so we use that knowledge to excuse ourselves from sin. In other words, we use it as a license to continue living our life without care. Our objective should always be to strive for perfection as our Father in heaven is perfect. That's it. No excuses and no buts.

I remember when our church was still a member of the ELCA and during our annual synod meetings when we would bring up the subject of allowing practicing homosexuals to serve as pastors and just gay relationships in general it would curdle my stomach every time someone would make the statement, "I was born this way."

I was born a sinner too but that is no excuse.
 
WIP said:
The problem is, because God knows our faults, we figure that He will forgive us and so we use that knowledge to excuse ourselves from sin. In other words, we use it as a license to continue living our life without care. Our objective should always be to strive for perfection as our Father in heaven is perfect. That's it. No excuses and no buts.
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Very true, but I also do believe that there is a difference between striving for perfection and being a perfectionist.
 
WIP said:
Sorry HeIsRisen, I was editing my post when you liked it.
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That's alright, I still like it and agree with it. Some churches don't have the right to call themselves churches when they practice something unbiblical like that.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
By striving not to be a sinner, but not beating yourself up about it when it happens.
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The potential issue is that how we define "beating ourselves up" can change. What I mean is this. Today, I might be feel very down on myself because of sin. Then, I remember that I am forgiven and so I relax a little. As time goes on, I stop going through the first part (being down on myself) and just jump directly to the second part (I'm forgiven) and so I begin to think less and less about my sins and pay less and less attention to how I live my life and eventually I become numb to my sin to the point that I am no longer concerned about working toward perfection. My sin becomes acceptable in a way.

This is what I see happening in our churches today. Sexual immorality is running rampant in my opinion. It's everywhere. Advertisers use sex to sell products. Strong sexual implications are expressed in prime time television programs. Most situation comedies today focus most of the humor around sexual implications. The movie and television rating system has become more and more relaxed with regard to what is considered PG or R ratings. At one time, an R rated movie would not include any nudity at all and that is no longer the case. A PG rated movie today may even show rear nudity.

With regard to the ELCA as I mentioned earlier, I could never understand how a church body could even be discussing acceptance of homosexuality much less the question of practicing homosexuals serving. Think about it. At that time a practicing homosexual was someone engaging in sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage. Any sexual activity between humans outside of marriage is no longer considered wrong except maybe incest but I might even question that at times. I wonder how long it will be before sex with animals is brought to the table.

Abortion is another example. Today, we (Christians and nonChristians alike) not only don't consider it wrong but actually made it legal.

We have become soft on sin and it is getting worse. Why? Because we preach that it is okay because we can be forgiven. It's not okay. Yes, it is true we can be forgiven but as Jesus said to the woman, "Go and sin no more." Period!
 
WIP said:
The potential issue is that how we define "beating ourselves up" can change. What I mean is this. Today, I might be feel very down on myself because of sin. Then, I remember that I am forgiven and so I relax a little. As time goes on, I stop going through the first part (being down on myself) and just jump directly to the second part (I'm forgiven) and so I begin to think less and less about my sins and pay less and less attention to how I live my life and eventually I become numb to my sin to the point that I am no longer concerned about working toward perfection. My sin becomes acceptable in a way.

This is what I see happening in our churches today. Sexual immorality is running rampant in my opinion. It's everywhere. Advertisers use sex to sell products. Strong sexual implications are expressed in prime time television programs. Most situation comedies today focus most of the humor around sexual implications. The movie and television rating system has become more and more relaxed with regard to what is considered PG or R ratings. At one time, an R rated movie would not include any nudity at all and that is no longer the case. A PG rated movie today may even show rear nudity.

With regard to the ELCA as I mentioned earlier, I could never understand how a church body could even be discussing acceptance of homosexuality much less the question of practicing homosexuals serving. Think about it. At that time a practicing homosexual was someone engaging in sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage. Any sexual activity between humans outside of marriage is no longer considered wrong except maybe incest but I might even question that at times. I wonder how long it will be before sex with animals is brought to the table.

Abortion is another example. Today, we (Christians and nonChristians alike) not only don't consider it wrong but actually made it legal.

We have become soft on sin and it is getting worse. Why? Because we preach that it is okay because we can be forgiven. It's not okay. Yes, it is true we can be forgiven but as Jesus said to the woman, "Go and sin no more." Period!
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I agree with most of that but let me just point something out for the record. Homsexuality should not be accepted, but that doesn't give us the right to hate homosexuals either. Hate the sin but love the sinner is what I always go by.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I agree with most of that but let me just point something out for the record. Homsexuality should not be accepted, but that doesn't give us the right to hate homosexuals either. Hate the sin but love the sinner is what I always go by.
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What counts as hate though? Where do we draw the line? That's one of the issues for any and all sins. But it's easier to see in homosexual debates. Some seem to consider it the same kind of hate and abuse to not accept homosexuality as it would be to drive someone to suicide.

But on other sins there's less of a spotlight to love the sinner. Love the person who insults you or who is harmful to you. Love the person you debate with and drives you crazy. Love the person you compete with to have work.

We live in a selfish world where love the sinner often means only if the sin isn't against us. And when isn't against us, standing against a sin someone does, is very close to standing against the person who is sinning. It's hard to draw the line for hating the sin. Or at least it seems that way to me.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I agree with most of that but let me just point something out for the record. Homsexuality should not be accepted, but that doesn't give us the right to hate homosexuals either. Hate the sin but love the sinner is what I always go by.
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I'm not understanding where you think I suggested that I hate homosexuals.

There's another way to think about all of this. Suppose my toddler insisted on playing out in the street. Would I be hating the toddler when I tell them to stay off the street and then punish them when they disobey me and do it anyway? Or would I be loving the child?

Letting someone know that they are living contrary to God's command is not hating them but rather an expression of love. Looking the other way and letting them continue to live in sin is closer to hating them.
 
I agree that having practicing homosexuals in leadership positions within the church is inexcusable. I say this as a dude who was thoroughly damaged by the gay community in my late teens, got saved 5 years ago, and is now celibate. I"m not "grossed out" by gay stuff (LOL), but I know first hand what "gay culture" does to people, and its not of God. At all.

Other than that...

The church is an interesting part of the culture, in that it both reflects and changes the surrounding culture. The culture has clearly seeped into much of The Protestant Church in big, big ways, which explains why many Christians are identical to non-Christians, and some are -less- upright, morally, by anyone's standards. Then again...

as one reads the NT, it becomes clear that there were heretics, wolves in sheep's clothing, false teachers, etc. from the get go. With a more postmodern outlook, plus growing inequality and the woes of late stage capitalism, the nature of the problems the church faces are different than from back then, but I'm not sure that its any harder now to be geuinely saved and follow Christ than it was back then, or maybe even 50 years ago. Christians are always "in the world, but not of it," so there's going to be a degree of conflict, even sometimes within the established church system.
 
WIP said:
I'm not understanding where you think I suggested that I hate homosexuals.

There's another way to think about all of this. Suppose my toddler insisted on playing out in the street. Would I be hating the toddler when I tell them to stay off the street and then punish them when they disobey me and do it anyway? Or would I be loving the child?

Letting someone know that they are living contrary to God's command is not hating them but rather an expression of love. Looking the other way and letting them continue to live in sin is closer to hating them.
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I don't recall that I actually accused you of hating homosexuals, but somebody who is a homosexual probably isn't even a Christian anyway so why would they care that they are living a sinful life?
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I don't recall that I actually accused you of hating homosexuals, but somebody who is a homosexual probably isn't even a Christian anyway so why would they care that they are living a sinful life?
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Using the latest surveys as a random sampling, about 75% or so believe they are Christian.
 
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