God is a forgiving God!

[Dorothy Mae]

Yet we are told to imitate God Eph5:1 and Matt5:48 and as I've said before Jesus did Not forgive those who crucified him, nor did Stephen those who stoned him to death.
They both prayed 'Father forgive them.'

Ephesians says be FOLLOWERS of God, NOT imitators. Matthew says be WHOLE OR COMPLETE OR PERFECT, not imitators.

God says, for example, “vengeance is mine” and we are forbidden from acting as the Judge of all the Earth such as happens when we refuse to forgive. So your verses don’t reflect your position.

We have to be willing and ready to forgive as Luke17:3 makes clear.

We need to forgive or we won’t be forgiven, no requirements from the offender.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Who Me, you can, of course, convince yourself that Jesus doesn’t require you to forgive those who did you wrong because they haven’t yet repented. You can harbor that unforgiveness.

But your legally convincing yourself you have that right won’t save you from the fruits of unforgiveness. Unforgiveness becomes bitterness in time. I have seen that in people.

Secondly, those successful in healing have said they encountered people crippled with arthritis that were only healed when they forgave others who had done them wrong (but never had repented to their knowledge.) These are christians.

Unforgiveness is a poison you drink hoping the other person dies.

 

[Tenchi]

Jesus did Not forgive those who crucified him,

Luke 23:34
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.

nor did Stephen those who stoned him to death.

Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 7:60
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge...

In both cases, the request for God's forgiveness is a recognition that all sin is ultimately against God and that it is His forgiveness that determines a sinner's eternal destiny. To ask God to forgive, then, is to show greater love for those who've sinned against us and a greater desire for forgiveness than merely to say, "I forgive you."

Also, both Jesus and Stephen were reflecting God in their plea for His forgiveness, both acting in His power and according to His nature in so doing. What higher, better forgiveness can one enact than this?

 

[Who Me]

Who Me, you can, of course, convince yourself that Jesus doesn’t require you to forgive those who did you wrong because they haven’t yet repented. You can harbor that unforgiveness.

But your legally convincing yourself you have that right won’t save you from the fruits of unforgiveness. Unforgiveness becomes bitterness in time. I have seen that in people.

Secondly, those successful in healing have said they encountered people crippled with arthritis that were only healed when they forgave others who had done them wrong (but never had repented to their knowledge.) These are christians.

Unforgiveness is a poison you drink hoping the other person dies.

What is so disapointing is when people do not read what one has written.

Do you realy believe that praying to God about a situation, about ones feelings and about those who hurt one will result in remaining hurt, resentful, angry and in hating those people.
Is your belief in the power of God through prayer so weak?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What is so disapointing is when people do not read what one has written.

Do you realy believe that praying to God about a situation, about ones feelings and about those who hurt one will result in remaining hurt, resentful, angry and in hating those people.
Is your belief in the power of God through prayer so weak?

My belief in the teachings of God is so powerful that if Jesus said we won’t be forgiven IF we do not forgive others, a more pleasant alternative of your own choosing won’t nullify the teachings of Christ in my view. Is your faith such that you just make up what you’re to do and excuse it all by telling yourself God can do anything YOU tell Him to do? You choose to retain unforgiveness and tell yourself it doesn’t matter cause God is powerful??

 

[Who Me]

Also, both Jesus and Stephen were reflecting God in their plea for His forgiveness, both acting in His power and according to His nature in so doing. What higher, better forgiveness can one enact than this?

Yes ultimately all sin is against the triune God. Ultimately it is God who forgives sin.
But just as we are involved in salvation through our proclamation explanation and living of the gospel so we have a part in forgiveness.
Please explain how you fit luke 17:3 into your theology.

Both Jesus and Stephen prayed to God to forgive, they did not forgive themselves.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes ultimately all sin is against the triune God. Ultimately it is God who forgives sin.
But just as we are involved in salvation through our proclamation explanation and living of the gospel so we have a part in forgiveness.
Please explain how you fit luke 17:3 into your theology.

Both Jesus and Stephen prayed to God to forgive, they did not forgive themselves.

It’s really foolishness to think a man begs God to forgive someone they refuse to forgive.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Who Me, I’ve encountered this thinking before. One makes up a comfortable “God” and one decides themselves how this God will act and when challenged, you just respond with “is there anything (I think up) God cannot do?” The answer is that the thing you think up m is likely to be unjust and therefore not what He says He does do. God forgiving you while you refuse to forgive others is unjust. He therefore refuses to forgive those who refuse to forgive. That is just.

 

[Tenchi]

Yes ultimately all sin is against the triune God. Ultimately it is God who forgives sin.
But just as we are involved in salvation through our proclamation explanation and living of the gospel so we have a part in forgiveness.
Please explain how you fit luke 17:3 into your theology.

Both Jesus and Stephen prayed to God to forgive, they did not forgive themselves.

To ask God to forgive someone who has offended or harmed us is to ask for a higher, more crucial, forgiveness than our own. It is far more vital that God forgives the one who has sinned against me in some way than that they have obtained my forgiveness. To make such a plea to God on behalf of one who has done us wrong, then, necessarily entails our forgiving them, too, it seems to me. Why would I ask God to forgive someone I have myself refused to forgive? Why would I ask for a higher, more necessary, divine forgiveness for another while withholding my own lesser, comparatively trivial forgiveness from them? Certainly, I think it was the case for Jesus and Stephen that their request to God for His forgiveness of those who were killing them implied their own forgiveness of their killers.

Our part in forgiveness is to refuse to rehearse the offenses given us by others and to refuse to see them in the present through the lens of past offenses - just as God does with those He's forgiven.

Hebrews 8:12 (NASB)
12 "For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."

Hebrews 10:17 (NASB)
17 "And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

Psalm 103:12 (NASB)
12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Micah 7:18-19 (NASB)
18 Who is a God like You, who pardons iniquity And passes over the rebellious act of the remnant of His possession? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights in unchanging love.
19 He will again have compassion on us; He will tread our iniquities under foot. Yes, You will cast all their sins Into the depths of the sea.


Luke 17:3-4 (NASB)
3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."

I would point out that this verse does not stipulate that ONLY if your brother repents are you to forgive him. As the examples of Jesus and Stephen illustrate, we ought to forgive all who trespass against us.

Genuine repentance often entails an offender asking those he's offended for their forgiveness. And when he does, they ought to forgive him. This is the sum-total of what Luke 17:3-4 prescribes, as far as I can see.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Of course in the case of Jesus, it was and is God forgiving, as he is one with his Father. Stephen and all other believers also forgive from our hearts, as we are one in Christ.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The parable of the servant who refused to forgive a fellow servant who owed him much less than the debt he was forgiven of tells us what happens to those who so refuse to forgive. God turns them over to the “tormentors.” That is, evil spirits are allowed to touch their lives. Might be their health. Might be their material wherewithal. Might be their relationships. That happens in this life. If there was a hedge around them, they poked holes in it.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The Christian God is a forgiving God. He is so forgiving that an evil man can repent even on his death bed. It does not matter what crime the evil man might have committed during his earthly life. The evil man might kill millions of people. The evil man might have raped women and abused children. The evil man might be the most evil person on earth. Yet, if on his death bed, he repented of his sins and asked Jesus into his life to be his savior, the Christian God will forgive him of all the evil he had done during his life. That is just how forgiving the Christian God can be.

God reads mens hearts, so he knows if repentance is genuine.
Also, I once took life for granted. For many years, I was unaware that the only reason I'm alive, is because God wills me to be alive.

 

[Who Me]

It’s really foolishness to think a man begs God to forgive someone they refuse to forgive.

Where have I said that one refuses to forgive?

All I have said is one does not have to forgive an unrepentant offender or to seek to manufacture ' feelings ' of forgiveness.

 

[Who Me]

Why would I ask God to forgive someone I have myself refused to forgive?

Where have I said this?

 

[Who Me]

My belief in the teachings of God is so powerful that if Jesus said we won’t be forgiven IF we do not forgive others, a more pleasant alternative of your own choosing won’t nullify the teachings of Christ in my view. Is your faith such that you just make up what you’re to do and excuse it all by telling yourself God can do anything YOU tell Him to do? You choose to retain unforgiveness and tell yourself it doesn’t matter cause God is powerful??

Tell me what is more pleasing to God.
Someone who pretends, even to themselves to have forgiven someone or a person who is honest enough to admit to God that they cannot on there own forgive a person.

You say you belief in the teaching of God, yet do not believe in being honest to a God who knows our deepest thoughts, or in being open to God changing how one thinks and feels.


May I recomend you read about Corrie ten Boom.
She spent her life serving God and went with her sister to a concentration camp. Her sister died there. Years later she was speaking in Germany and afterwards a man came up to her.
He thanked her for her message, said he had served as a guard in a concentration camp, was now a Christian.
He wanted to shake her hand.
Corrie, had seen and recognised him. One of the most brutal guards in the camp.
She was filled with thoughts of what had happened there and of hatred. She heard what he said.
She prayed for help and was given it, her hatred disappeared replaced with love for this man,


This is what I have been writing about, giving it all over to God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Tell me what is more pleasing to God.
Someone who pretends, even to themselves to have forgiven someone or a person who is honest enough to admit to God that they cannot on there own forgive a person.

You say you belief in the teaching of God, yet do not believe in being honest to a God who knows our deepest thoughts, or in being open to God changing how one thinks and feels.


May I recomend you read about Corrie ten Boom.
She spent her life serving God and went with her sister to a concentration camp. Her sister died there. Years later she was speaking in Germany and afterwards a man came up to her.
He thanked her for her message, said he had served as a guard in a concentration camp, was now a Christian.
He wanted to shake her hand.
Corrie, had seen and recognised him. One of the most brutal guards in the camp.
She was filled with thoughts of what had happened there and of hatred. She heard what he said.
She prayed for help and was given it, her hatred disappeared replaced with love for this man,


This is what I have been writing about, giving it all over to God.

Corrie forgave the man. She didn’t “give it all over to God” but FORGAVE him herself. Have you forgiven everyone who did you wrong?

And I don’t recall God being pleased with Jobs prayers even though Job “was honest.” Where did Jesus teach us to be honest to God especially about deciding NOT to obey. Is there a virtue in being so cheeky as to tell God that you won’t forgive someone instead of forgiving? Where did Jesus say “give it to God instead of forgiving?”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Where have I said that one refuses to forgive?

All I have said is one does not have to forgive an unrepentant offender or to seek to manufacture ' feelings ' of forgiveness.

THAT is what refusing to forgive is. Jesus said forgive not forgive ONLY THOSE WHO REPENT TO
YOUR knowledge otherwise keep the resentment?

 

[Who Me]

Corrie forgave the man. She didn’t “give it all over to God” but FORGAVE him herself. Have you forgiven everyone who did you wrong?

She was unable to forgive without God's help.

 

[Who Me]

THAT is what refusing to forgive is. Jesus said forgive not forgive ONLY THOSE WHO REPENT TO
YOUR knowledge otherwise keep the resentment?

Nowhere have I said or implied one refuses to forgive or that one holds a grudge.
I have consistently said one hands the situation and one's feelings over to God for him to deal with.

When one has been seriously hurt, like Corrie ten Boon, those feelings are deep, multi layered and need God's grace to enable one to forgive.

We have a pattern for forgiveness set out in how God forgives, we have an example in Jesus of what to do when someone is clearly u repentant and instructions of what to do for those who abuse us.
These all under pin our need to be willing to forgive.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

She was unable to forgive without God's help.

If she hadn’t reached out her hand, something she COULD do, there’d have been no help.

But why don’t you ask God to help you forgive those who haven’t repented to you?