God is on which side? Spiritual Israel or Literal Israel???

[jonahmano]

Had a discussion with a friend that he was sharing that though a country is against the preaching of the gospel and if that same country is supporting Israel or in some partnership with Israel (because that that country hates Islamic terrorism) then that country will be blessed because of the word of God in Genesis 12:13 and for that he was giving examples of USA, Russian (in one time and not now)....

I was bit in denial with his statement because isn't God more concerned about his faith people "Christians" rather than his natural people "The Original seed - Jews". How can God bless a country when the gospel is discouraged or the people of God are persecuted and isn't that other way "I will bless those them who bless you (spiritual Israel) and I will curse them those who curse You (Spiritual Israel).

I too started giving examples of countries with freedom of preaching the gospel and how God blessed countries like Dubai, Singapore, Kuwait........

Is God still biased toward the original seed? When it comes to the comparison of blind original seed "Israel the Nation" and alive and active the spiritual seed "The Chruch" which side will our God prioritize first.

Your spiritual enlightenment on this topic is very much appreciated.

 

[FreeGrace]

Both. He's not done with literal Israel, as indicated by where Jesus Christ returns to earth at the Second Advent. One foot on the Mount of Olives says it all.

And there is no question about "spiritual Israel", referring to all who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for eternal life.

As to the question of "which side" will God priortize first, the answer is that God is currently dealing with believers now, or spiritual Israel.

 

[Willie T]

What did He tell the woman at the well? It's worth reading John, chapter 4.

 

[jasonc]

What did He tell the woman at the well? It's worth reading John, chapter 4.

don't do that. it might ruin the Zionist influenced eschatology they hold.

btw not at you. the location of any saved Hebrew is irrevelant to the location or state of isreal that fulfills the promise as said by Paul. futurist see that as literal isreal(modern) and exclude Jews of all locations.

 

[Malachi]

Is God still biased toward the original seed? When it comes to the comparison of blind original seed "Israel the Nation" and alive and active the spiritual seed "The Chruch" which side will our God prioritize first.

Jonah,
To answer your question, please note the following from Scripture:

1. God is no respecter of persons -- God has no "biases" (Acts 10:34).

2. God's dealings with the nation of Israel and with Jews during and after the Church Age are spelled out in Romans, chapters 9-11.

3. Because Israel rejected their true Messiah, God caused the Romans to destroy Israel in 70 AD (Lk 19:41-44) and scatter the Jews. They returned to Palestine in 1948 in unbelief and blindness (Rom 11:25).

4. At present God makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile -- all are guilty before God and all need to repent and be converted (Rom 2:1 - 3:20).

5. Jews who put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ today cannot maintain their "Jewishness" and hold on to Moses (1 Cor 12:13; Heb 12:18-29). The Church is Jew and Gentile in one Body, and for converted Jews to separate themselves from Gentile Christians is a violation of God's plan for the Church.

6. God made immutable promises to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, David) which ensure that at the second coming of Christ Israel will be redeemed and restored as the kingdom of Israel on earth under Christ and David his regent (Acts 1: 6,7; Rom 11:26-29; Ezek 34:11-31, and numerous other Scriptures).

7. Today, Christians have a duty to give unbelieving Jews the Gospel along with all other nations (Mk 16:15,16). They have no obligation to the nation of Israel per se, and they have no business telling Jews that they do not need to be saved (as some do). Orthodox Jews are looking for their false Messiah, and many will be deceived by the Antichrist when he comes as the false Messiah.

 

[jonahmano]

Jonah,
To answer your question, please note the following from Scripture:

1. God is no respecter of persons -- God has no "biases" (Acts 10:34).

2. God's dealings with the nation of Israel and with Jews during and after the Church Age are spelled out in Romans, chapters 9-11.

3. Because Israel rejected their true Messiah, God caused the Romans to destroy Israel in 70 AD (Lk 19:41-44) and scatter the Jews. They returned to Palestine in 1948 in unbelief and blindness (Rom 11:25).

4. At present God makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile -- all are guilty before God and all need to repent and be converted (Rom 2:1 - 3:20).

5. Jews who put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ today cannot maintain their "Jewishness" and hold on to Moses (1 Cor 12:13; Heb 12:18-29). The Church is Jew and Gentile in one Body, and for converted Jews to separate themselves from Gentile Christians is a violation of God's plan for the Church.

6. God made immutable promises to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, David) which ensure that at the second coming of Christ Israel will be redeemed and restored as the kingdom of Israel on earth under Christ and David his regent (Acts 1: 6,7; Rom 11:26-29; Ezek 34:11-31, and numerous other Scriptures).

7. Today, Christians have a duty to give unbelieving Jews the Gospel along with all other nations (Mk 16:15,16). They have no obligation to the nation of Israel per se, and they have no business telling Jews that they do not need to be saved (as some do). Orthodox Jews are looking for their false Messiah, and many will be deceived by the Antichrist when he comes as the false Messiah.

Then how about millions of Jews after the resurrection of Christ, are they dying to eternal death? And why does it says in Romans "All Israel will be saved?"

 

[Malachi]

Then how about millions of Jews after the resurrection of Christ, are they dying to eternal death?

Correct. "There is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12)

And why does it says in Romans "All Israel will be saved?"

That will be at Christ's second coming in the future. Until then God puts no difference between Jew and Gentile. All are guilty. All must be saved.

 

[jonahmano]

Correct. "There is none other name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12)


That will be at Christ's second coming in the future. Until then God puts no difference between Jew and Gentile. All are guilty. All must be saved.

But in Romans it clearly says all Israel will be saved. So what about people who died until now, they won't be saved. Does the Holy Spirit mean "all Israel will be saved" is that all the jews at the second coming of Christ will be saved???

 

[Deborah13]

Jonah,
To answer your question, please note the following from Scripture:

1. God is no respecter of persons -- God has no "biases" (Acts 10:34).

2. God's dealings with the nation of Israel and with Jews during and after the Church Age are spelled out in Romans, chapters 9-11.

3. Because Israel rejected their true Messiah, God caused the Romans to destroy Israel in 70 AD (Lk 19:41-44) and scatter the Jews. They returned to Palestine in 1948 in unbelief and blindness (Rom 11:25).

4. At present God makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile -- all are guilty before God and all need to repent and be converted (Rom 2:1 - 3:20).

5. Jews who put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ today cannot maintain their "Jewishness" and hold on to Moses (1 Cor 12:13; Heb 12:18-29). The Church is Jew and Gentile in one Body, and for converted Jews to separate themselves from Gentile Christians is a violation of God's plan for the Church.

6. God made immutable promises to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, David) which ensure that at the second coming of Christ Israel will be redeemed and restored as the kingdom of Israel on earth under Christ and David his regent (Acts 1: 6,7; Rom 11:26-29; Ezek 34:11-31, and numerous other Scriptures).

7. Today, Christians have a duty to give unbelieving Jews the Gospel along with all other nations (Mk 16:15,16). They have no obligation to the nation of Israel per se, and they have no business telling Jews that they do not need to be saved (as some do). Orthodox Jews are looking for their false Messiah, and many will be deceived by the Antichrist when he comes as the false Messiah.

# 5 - ??
What do you mean by they cannot maintain their Jewishness? What is Jewishness?
The root of the Body of Christ is Jewish. The corner stone is Jewish. The vine is Jewish.
It seems to me the only thing they would need to change is to understand is that they cannot be justified and sanctified by the law. To know their Messiah.

 

[jonahmano]

# 5 - ??
What do you mean by they cannot maintain their Jewishness? What is Jewishness?
The root of the Body of Christ is Jewish. The corner stone is Jewish. The vine is Jewish.
It seems to me the only thing they would need to change is to understand is that they cannot be justified and sanctified by the law. To know their Messiah.

But all Jews from the resurrection of Christ when the law was abolished to this day, are they going to be saved? According to the new testament they are already for the way to hell because they didn't believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[jonahmano]

Jonah,
To answer your question, please note the following from Scripture:

1. God is no respecter of persons -- God has no "biases" (Acts 10:34).

2. God's dealings with the nation of Israel and with Jews during and after the Church Age are spelled out in Romans, chapters 9-11.

3. Because Israel rejected their true Messiah, God caused the Romans to destroy Israel in 70 AD (Lk 19:41-44) and scatter the Jews. They returned to Palestine in 1948 in unbelief and blindness (Rom 11:25).

4. At present God makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile -- all are guilty before God and all need to repent and be converted (Rom 2:1 - 3:20).

5. Jews who put their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ today cannot maintain their "Jewishness" and hold on to Moses (1 Cor 12:13; Heb 12:18-29). The Church is Jew and Gentile in one Body, and for converted Jews to separate themselves from Gentile Christians is a violation of God's plan for the Church.

6. God made immutable promises to the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, David) which ensure that at the second coming of Christ Israel will be redeemed and restored as the kingdom of Israel on earth under Christ and David his regent (Acts 1: 6,7; Rom 11:26-29; Ezek 34:11-31, and numerous other Scriptures).

7. Today, Christians have a duty to give unbelieving Jews the Gospel along with all other nations (Mk 16:15,16). They have no obligation to the nation of Israel per se, and they have no business telling Jews that they do not need to be saved (as some do). Orthodox Jews are looking for their false Messiah, and many will be deceived by the Antichrist when he comes as the false Messiah.

The why does it say in Romans "All Israel will be saved" Which Israel? the remnant at the second coming of Jesus Christ or all the ignorant Israelites who died after the resurrection of Christ and till now?

 

[Malachi]

The why does it say in Romans "All Israel will be saved" Which Israel? the remnant at the second coming of Jesus Christ or all the ignorant Israelites who died after the resurrection of Christ and till now?

Jonah,
I believe I gave you a very clear answer, but it has not registered. Let's make a diagram.

Christ's First Coming------------> Christ's Second Coming
Gospel preached in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, World
Gospel preached FIRST to Jews then to Gentiles
Majority of Jews REJECTED Christ and the Gospel
Majority of Jews CONDEMNED THEMSELVES to Hell
Majority of Jews today in UNBELIEF AND BLINDNESS

Christ's Second Coming------------> Millenium
All Jews brought to Israel supernaturally
All Jews see Christ "in power and great glory"
All Jews see Christ coming to deliver them from their enemies
All Jews mourn and repent
All Jews saved -- thus "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"

 

[reba]

What about people who are not 100% Jewish blood...

There is one salvation at that is the Cross of Christ...
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[reba]

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Exo_4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

1Co_12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Malachi]

# 5 - ??
What do you mean by they cannot maintain their Jewishness? What is Jewishness?

"Jewishness" is trying to maintain one's righteousness by "Torah Observance". Notice that the apostle Paul discarded this type of Jewishness altogether because he knew Christ personally. Paul counted his Jewish righteousness as "dung" below (Please notice and study this passage carefully -- Phil 3:3-11):
3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

The root of the Body of Christ is Jewish. The corner stone is Jewish. The vine is Jewish.

The root is not "Jewish" but "Hebrew", going all the way back to Abraham, the descendent of Eber (the Hebrew). Christ "the cornerstone" is "the seed of Abraham". "The vine" is Christ Himself -- God ("I am the Vine, ye are the branches"). So please notice and study this passage carefully (Gal 3:6-18):
6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

It seems to me the only thing they would need to change is to understand is that they cannot be justified and sanctified by the law. To know their Messiah.

This is the fallacy under which Messianic Jews labor. That is not what the New Testament teaches at all. To "know" Christ is to abandon "Jewishness" as Paul did. Furthermore since the Church is Jew and Gentile in one Body without distinction, they cannot separate themselves from Gentiles and hold on to Moses. That is the clear teaching of the book of Hebrews. (Notice Gal 3:26-29; 1 Cor 12:12-20):
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

 

[Malachi]

What about people who are not 100% Jewish blood...

Since the whole world is guilty before God, this is what God tells everyone right now (Acts 17:30): "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"

There is one salvation at that is the Cross of Christ...
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Correct. There is only ONE Gospel. And all will be saved on this basis, whether Jew or Gentile, whether before or after the second coming of Christ.

 

[Deborah13]

But all Jews from the resurrection of Christ when the law was abolished to this day, are they going to be saved? According to the new testament they are already for the way to hell because they didn't believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

Paul mourned for his people, so much so that he said he would have given up his own good relationship with God, if that could save them.
That's all I know to say.

 

[Deborah13]

"Jewishness" is trying to maintain one's righteousness by "Torah Observance".

Just wondered what you meant by Jewishness. This I agree with.

Do you believe one maintains one's righteousness by observing the 10 Commandments?

Isa_11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom_15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

 

[jonahmano]

Just wondered what you meant by Jewishness. This I agree with.

Do you believe one maintains one's righteousness by observing the 10 Commandments?

Isa_11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom_15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Again bewildering. How can one maintain righteousness by observing the 10 commandments? I think with the Crucifixion of Christ, the law is abolished and no souls Jews or Gentiles will be justified by the law but by grace. So there is no exception for Jews those who have kept commandments of God just because they are the original seed of God.

 

[Malachi]

Do you believe one maintains one's righteousness by observing the 10 Commandments?

Impossible. That's why Christains receive the imputed righteousness of Christ and are justified by faith. All those deemed righteous were justified in the same way (Heb 11). At the same time we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling".

As to the "root of Jesse" we will have a separate thread on the Davidic Covenant.