God, Mother of all

[AHIMSA]

Is there anything in scripture that suggests, because God is only refered to in the masculine in the bible, it is somehow theologically incorrect to refer to God as Mother, or somehow reprehensible? Does scripture somewhere assert that we can only refer to God by the names that the Bible has laid out?

Come to think of it, God is generally held to be, by most Christians I meet, neither male nor female, but can somone actually support that statement with scripture?

 

[AHIMSA]

anyone?

 

[Sothenes]

Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

I believe that if anyone says anything differently then they have to tamper with the text and they aren't proclaiming what God said but they are proclaiming the imaginations of their own mind because they got their ideas from their own rebellion, demons, and "make believe" instead of from God.

 

[AHIMSA]

I think you're clearly fabricating some kind of rule out of nowhere. Jesus isn't saying that everytime you pray, you have to be saying the "Our Father". Nowhere does this text suggest that its somehow incorrect to refer to God as our Mother, simply because Jesus only calls God Father.

they are proclaiming the imaginations of their own mind because they got their ideas from their own rebellion, demons, and "make believe" instead of from God.

Presupposing you consider God to be neither male nor female (which you have yet to biblically prove) what is evil or imaginative about calling God Mother, considering that the term Father doesn't accurately describe his gender?

Lastly, by this line of thinking, it would "rebellious" and "imaginative" to refer to God by any title that does not appear to be written in the Bible. I know alot of Pastors try to use different titles for God that fit modern times, so that his significance can be underscored, seeing as alot of anicent terminology fails to properly illustrate what the biblical authors had in mind (in the modern day at least)

 

[Disciple88]

John 4:24 tells us that God is spirit. Other then that, yes, God is only known in the Bible as Father or some sort of male form. Why try to picture God as something else than the Bible portrays? The Bible has the clearest picture and description of who God is, we distort that picture until we become perfect in heaven.

 

[Imagican]

I think you're clearly fabricating some kind of rule out of nowhere. Jesus isn't saying that everytime you pray, you have to be saying the "Our Father". Nowhere does this text suggest that its somehow incorrect to refer to God as our Mother, simply because Jesus only calls God Father.

they are proclaiming the imaginations of their own mind because they got their ideas from their own rebellion, demons, and "make believe" instead of from God.

Presupposing you consider God to be neither male nor female (which you have yet to biblically prove) what is evil or imaginative about calling God Mother, considering that the term Father doesn't accurately describe his gender?

Lastly, by this line of thinking, it would "rebellious" and "imaginative" to refer to God by any title that does not appear to be written in the Bible. I know alot of Pastors try to use different titles for God that fit modern times, so that his significance can be underscored, seeing as alot of anicent terminology fails to properly illustrate what the biblical authors had in mind (in the modern day at least)

AHIMSA,

Since the Bible is NOT void of the understanding of masculine and feminine, it is YOU that are presupposing things.

You obviously simply offered this thread to argue. You 'think' you have a point to make but in reality you are simply void of understanding. If it had been a serious question, then you would be open to other's explanations instead of having your answers 'already made up'. So be it.

I'll bite.

Yes, there is MUCH MUCH evidence that CAN be gathered from scripture that would not only indicate but STATE that God is in the MASCULINE. So to change this at 'your will' and try and create a feminine God is nothing short of creating 'your own' god, which you are certainly welcome to do, (this is a Christian web site though).

God is the HEAD of Christ, He IS Christ's FATHER. There is NO such thing as a female FATHER. Sorry. I guess you can make up definitions for words as easily as creating your 'own' gods, but Father IS Father regardless of your desire for it to 'mean' something else.

Women have been offered their place in the design. Woman was created FOR Adam, FROM Adam. That some women refuse to accept 'their place' and desire to be, not only the 'same' as man, but 'greater' only goes to show that the 'spirit of disobedience' still dwells within many. As Eve was NOT satisfied with her place, so too are many women who choose to envy rather than obey.

God IS MASCULINE, (at least as far as the God that I worship), However, one is 'free' to choose how and what they worship, so, you have EVERY right to follow what you will. Just beware; YOU cannot 'change' God, but you can be changed BY God if you allow Him into your heart. Get it, HIM!!!

 

[AHIMSA]

Imagican,

I understand what you're saying. From your point of view, your perspective is valid, because you believe God to be male. (though I STRONGLY disagree with your views on women).

My question is to Christians who don't see God as male or female, but still insist that masculinity provides the best available portrait of him. Is he male and female? Is he more male than female? Is masculinity somehow divine while femininity is not? What is it about the feminine that is incapable of portraying God?

 

[Imagican]

Wow, you disagree with my offering concerning women and their 'place' eh? Tell me more of that which you disagree on.

If one does a cursory study of the history of pagan religions it is easy to see that the 'godess' has been an integral part of most since time emortal. Fertility goddesses predate the God of the Jews by many thousands of years. These beliefs were founded because of a 'lack' of communion with the 'true' God and therefore are 'man-made' creations wrought from an 'inherent' NEED to 'worship' yet without the 'power' or love involved with worship of the 'true' God.

That there are MANY that choose to worship 'false' gods or godesses today comes as NO surprise. You claim that you, among other 'Christians' choose to question the masculinity of God. What I question is whether or not ANYONE that refuses to accept God for what He has offered could possibly have a 'true' belief in His Son. I am the judge of NO MAN, yet I have certainly been TOLD to discern the 'truth' of ANY witness.

I guess it's safe to 'assume' that you are a woman? How did I guess huh? I have witnessed that there are many women who still hold fast to the spirit of Eve. Able to surcome and be influenced by that 'same serpent' that led her to disobedience. Those that are unwilling to submit either to man or God Himself for the sake of their 'own' power. This is no different than the pride of Satan and what separated him too from God.

These are things that one must contend with themselves. I believe that there will always be those that insist that 'they' are their 'own' gods and therefore be unable to accept the love offered by the 'true' God and Creator of this world. This will only wax worse and worse as we aproach the 'end times'. 'New age' religions are on the 'rise' and the worship of the 'feminine' is just another part of it. Not the ONLY form of this veering from the 'truth', but certainly another part of it.

 

[PDoug]

AHIMSA, All:

Please note the following scripture:

John 10

34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ?

Christ indicated that all those who have faith correctly are gods – meaning that they are each God and belong to the Godhead. This means that every woman who has faith is God, and the ranks of God are filled with women. Therefore God is both masculine and feminine.

Also, please look at the following scripture:

Proverbs 8

1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 On the heights along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;

3 beside the gates leading into the city,
at the entrances, she cries aloud:

4 "To you, O men, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.

.
.
.

32 "Now then, my sons, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.

Now wisdom has identified those who have faith as her sons. But those who have faith are sons of God. It follows therefore that Wisdom is God - by virtue of her sons and the sons of God being one and the same.

Look further at the following:

1 Corinthians 2

6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"â€â€
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

From the above it can be seen that both Wisdom and the Holy Spirit provide those who have faith wisdom. This means that Wisdom is one and the same as the Holy Spirit - which in turn means that the Holy Spirit is feminine.

One last thing, why would the Father avail himself to those He formed as masculine if there was no feminine counterpart for Him? If the Father intended not to have a female counterpart He would not have availed Himself as masculine, but rather as androgynous. (God does not do anything without a good purpose.) Therefore the Godhead includes the Father, the Holy Spirit (who is the Mother and the Father’s consort), and Christ who is their Son.

The above is why Christ said the following:

The Apocryphon of John

I am the one who is with you (pl.) always. I am the Father, I am the Mother, I am the Son. I am the undefiled and incorruptible one.

 

[Novum]

I guess it's safe to 'assume' that you are a woman? How did I guess huh? I have witnessed that there are many women who still hold fast to the spirit of Eve. Able to surcome and be influenced by that 'same serpent' that led her to disobedience. Those that are unwilling to submit either to man or God Himself for the sake of their 'own' power. This is no different than the pride of Satan and what separated him too from God.

These are things that one must contend with themselves. I believe that there will always be those that insist that 'they' are their 'own' gods and therefore be unable to accept the love offered by the 'true' God and Creator of this world. This will only wax worse and worse as we aproach the 'end times'. 'New age' religions are on the 'rise' and the worship of the 'feminine' is just another part of it. Not the ONLY form of this veering from the 'truth', but certainly another part of it.

I really don't want to get too involved here. But I will note that words like these have been the primary justification for hundreds of years of oppression of women which, today, we have finally begun to see fade away.

 

[Imagican]

Novum,

Coming from one who denies God, your reply comes as NO surprise. And I guess you blame the inquisition and crusades on 'God' too?

My words offer NO abuse towards women. Just the oposite in fact. As the 'weaker' of the two sexes, women deserve to be treated as such. Not by 'taking advantage of them', but by offering them the love and protection that is offered through the heart of one capable of 'giving' rather than 'taking'.

I have simply pointed out the 'true' nature of the 'place' of women. I would NEVER expect you to accept this Nov. For you are your 'own' God and set the rules as YOU see fit. No, insult intended, only stating what you would offer through your words, yet refuse to admit openly.

 

[PDoug]

Imagican,

The way you responded to AHIMSA was wholly uncalled for. God the Holy Spirit, is in fact the Mother of the Universe, and AHIMSA was correct. All you did was show that, if even if Novum does not call himself a Christian, he is a far greater Christian than you, because he bears better fruit than you.

 

[Novum]

My words offer NO abuse towards women. Just the oposite in fact. As the 'weaker' of the two sexes, women deserve to be treated as such. Not by 'taking advantage of them', but by offering them the love and protection that is offered through the heart of one capable of 'giving' rather than 'taking'.

I have simply pointed out the 'true' nature of the 'place' of women. I would NEVER expect you to accept this Nov. For you are your 'own' God and set the rules as YOU see fit. No, insult intended, only stating what you would offer through your words, yet refuse to admit openly.

Emphasis mine. This is vile, disgusting trash, Imagican. I would expect anyone with even a weak grasp of the concepts of equality and justice to recoil in shock at your words for the sexist, unsupported hate speech and slander that they are. It is with words like yours that people marched proudly into the 21st century... BC.

And I don't think your Jesus would be pleased with what you're writing.

 

[gingercat]

Novum,

I never got into thinking whether God is male or female. I am guessing He is neither since He is Spirit. I will look into it.

Anyway, how imagican is expressing is not insult for women. I am woman and I am just happy being treated as weaker sex. I wish there are more godly men who protect women as weaker sex.

 

[mutzrein]

Good to see your post ginger. I haven't said goodbye to you yet.

And thanks for a woman's perspective.


Nowhere does scripture relate to God as anything other than male gender, so why do people want to make God feminine? Why even discuss it? God's not going to change. He's not going to stop being father to His own children just because of the PC notions of those who don't even know Him.

And as for God the holy spirit being the mother of the universe. Where on earth do people get this tripe from?

BTW it was the Spirit of God that planted the seed in Mary if there is any significance in that to anyone.

 

[Imagican]

Just more 'new aged mystic spiritualism' designed to take ones mind and spirit away from the 'truth'. A 'little bit of the past' combined with the 'carnal minds of the present', mixed together in a 'soup of confusion'.

 

[Novum]

Anyway, how imagican is expressing is not insult for women. I am woman and I am just happy being treated as weaker sex. I wish there are more godly men who protect women as weaker sex.

You would do well to not presume to speak for all women, just as I do not presume to speak for all men.

 

[gingercat]

Anyway, how imagican is expressing is not insult for women. I am woman and I am just happy being treated as weaker sex. I wish there are more godly men who protect women as weaker sex.

You would do well to not presume to speak for all women, just as I do not presume to speak for all men.

I am just speaking from the Bible's point of view. I used to think like secular women and tried very hard to be like men but not since I became Christian.

 

[Novum]

Anyway, how imagican is expressing is not insult for women. I am woman and I am just happy being treated as weaker sex. I wish there are more godly men who protect women as weaker sex.

You would do well to not presume to speak for all women, just as I do not presume to speak for all men.

I am just speaking from the Bible's point of view.

I don't care where you think you're speaking from. You have no place in dictating the beliefs of women for them; your words represent only your beliefs and not necessarily anyone else's.

I used to think like secular women and tried very hard to be like men but not since I became Christian.

What does that mean? All these women - and the men who support them - want is to be treated equally. Who says anyone's trying to "be like men"?

 

[gingercat]

Anyway, how imagican is expressing is not insult for women. I am woman and I am just happy being treated as weaker sex. I wish there are more godly men who protect women as weaker sex.

You would do well to not presume to speak for all women, just as I do not presume to speak for all men.

I am just speaking from the Bible's point of view.

I don't care where you think you're speaking from. You have no place in dictating the beliefs of women for them; your words represent only your beliefs and not necessarily anyone else's.

I used to think like secular women and tried very hard to be like men but not since I became Christian.

What does that mean? All these women - and the men who support them - want is to be treated equally. Who says anyone's trying to "be like men"?

Imagican is not insulting women. That's all I am saying. The Bible is clearly teaching women's role and Christians should respect it. You are not Christian so you would not understand.