God or money?

[lisa-in-FL]

I think you're the one who recently made a point of declaring that you don't care what I say, right? That attitude is probably what's hindering you from seeing my position clearly.

No, I think the issue is that I'm comparing what you say to what the Bible actually says and I'm siding with the Bible.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Like I said in my example that you dismissed, a man working for a salary to support his wife and children is working for love. His motivation is to provide for his family which is an honorable thing to God. If this hypothetical man did not do this the Bible clearly states he'd be worse than an infidel.
Whether he provides for them through his salary or by moving his family to your mythical Christian commune where everyone shares with no ulterior motives, he's serving God through his actions.

That's where I think you are having trouble understanding what Jesus actually said. Serving God or mammon isn't about what motivates you, its about who you serve. Its a subtle distinction, but think of it this way - if you are making a god out of your sharing/no money exchanged lifestyle or putting your faith in that style of living then you are serving something other than God.

This is the danger of legalism. Yes, we're supposed to live differently than the rest of the world and live by Jesus' commands (or else, what are we?) but if you put your faith in your works and your obedience then you've lost sight of Christ.

I'm going to add to this about sharing. Who is to say someone who is living a life of just sharing isn't motivated by survival? You can forsake material wealth but we still need to eat.
Motivation isn't the issue, its about what you are putting your faith in. God or what God provides you with?

 

[john darling]

your mythical Christian commune where everyone shares with no ulterior motives,

Acts 2:44-45 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

It's not really me you're being sarcastic with.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm going to add to this about sharing. Who is to say someone who is living a life of just sharing isn't motivated by survival? You can forsake material wealth but we still need to eat.
Motivation isn't the issue, its about what you are putting your faith in. God or what God provides you with?

As a construction worker I get laid off from my job a lot. I'm always looking for the next job.
I am positive that God has provided me with jobs and work when I needed them.
Even over time when times were desperate.
I have been grateful to God for the opportunity to work. In response I have given "first fruits" by stroking my signature on the back of first paychecks of new jobs and given the money away...as well as giving substantive portions of my earnings to God. I consider the work and paychecks as a gift from God. God doesn't give bad gifts...only good things.

These days here in Nashville work is plentiful. Too much is available. There aren't enough of us skilled trades to go around. I'm getting old and tired.
But for a few I will do side jobs. Usually members of my church. Their residence I don't bill for. Their business'...I have to.

Even still...I don't want the work. I have more than enough. If God had wanted me to be wealthy with money He woulda done it by now. So why should I try to get more than what I need? The money from side work all goes to charity. I don't keep any of it.
People always shudder and tense up over the bills. Just part of their fears. Skilled tradesman are hard to come by these days. And because of that they have become very very expensive. I probably should charge more than I do. But since I never plan on keeping the money... maybe if I billed more I could keep the side jobs down even more. Dunno.
I got three coming up and just finished one. I can't seem to turn them down. The people asking are desperate for honest work. (A ton of schmucks have run about claiming skills but have none but demand high dollars)
I don't know what else to do.
I ain't living in a commune. That's a sure fire way to an agonizing slow death.

 

[john darling]

In response I have given "first fruits" by stroking my signature on the back of first paychecks of new jobs and given the money away...as well as giving substantive portions of my earnings to God

JohnDB, whatever goodness you do for God is being lost in your attempt to justify yourself by letting everyone know about it. Please, for your own eternal reward, keep these personal examples between you and God.

I consider the work and paychecks as a gift from God. God doesn't give bad gifts...only good things.

Yes, you consider working for the purpose of material gain good. But that doesn't make it good. The heart is deceitful above all things. Strong delusion is a real concept. Jesus gave an example of people coming to him on Judgement day saying, "Lord, I have done many wonderful works in your name" and he will say, "I never knew you". Look carefully. These people called him Lord. They believed they did wonderful works in his name. He called them workers of iniquity and said only those who do the work of his father will be saved. In both cases work was involved, just like Jesus' comments on working for God vs working for money.

Earlier, when this thread first started, you said that you work solely for money and not for love. That is the real JohnDB, as horrible as it may seem in the light of all that has come out since then. It was only when someone else reminded you to sugarcoat your comments with this stuff about how it really is all for love that you changed your tune and started bragging about how good you really are. Don't do that. That honest JohnDB is far better than this religious-mask JohnDB.

Even still...I don't want the work. I have more than enough. If God had wanted me to be wealthy with money He woulda done it by now. So why should I try to get more than what I need?

Look at this paragraph carefully. In a few sentences you said you have more than enough and then questioned why you should try to get more than what you need. If you have more than enough then you've already accumulated more than you need, thus negating whatever sentiment you were trying to communicate with the "why should I try to get more than I need" question. This confusion is a fruit of the double mindedness that comes from trying to serve two masters.

I ain't living in a commune. That's a sure fire way to an agonizing slow death.

How does living in Christian community equate to agonizing death?

 

[JohnDB]

JohnDB, whatever goodness you do for God is being lost in your attempt to justify yourself by letting everyone know about it. Please, for your own eternal reward, keep these personal examples between you and God.



Yes, you consider working for the purpose of material gain good. But that doesn't make it good. The heart is deceitful above all things. Strong delusion is a real concept. Jesus gave an example of people coming to him on Judgement day saying, "Lord, I have done many wonderful works in your name" and he will say, "I never knew you". Look carefully. These people called him Lord. They believed they did wonderful works in his name. He called them workers of iniquity and said only those who do the work of his father will be saved. In both cases work was involved, just like Jesus' comments on working for God vs working for money.

Earlier, when this thread first started, you said that you work solely for money and not for love. That is the real JohnDB, as horrible as it may seem in the light of all that has come out since then. It was only when someone else reminded you to sugarcoat your comments with this stuff about how it really is all for love that you changed your tune and started bragging about how good you really are. Don't do that. That honest JohnDB is far better than this religious-mask JohnDB.



Look at this paragraph carefully. In a few sentences you said you have more than enough and then questioned why you should try to get more than what you need. If you have more than enough then you've already accumulated more than you need, thus negating whatever sentiment you were trying to communicate with the "why should I try to get more than I need" question. This confusion is a fruit of the double mindedness that comes from trying to serve two masters.



How does living in Christian community equate to agonizing death?

You're being ridiculous.
It doesn't matter what I say or do I am evil incarnate to you.

Did it ever occur to you that actually you have the problem?

Some of us just don't care about money. My/Our value system is not based on money or material possessions. It's on something else. Where it's a powerful tool...that's all it is to us...just a tool and not an end in and of itself.

You seem obsessed with money.

I explained myself because people need examples of what they could possibly emulate. I ain't a saint but I ain't encouraging evil either.

 

[Brock]

It was weird for me. The Lord told me to move to Ohio

No offense but I never got this. How do people know that it's God telling them to move to another state?

 

[WIP]

For clarity, here's the assertion in question: "The problem is the motivation behind how we get the money; participation in the worldly value which says we should only help people IF they pay us for it. "

Of course this is the assertion people are making.

Which people? That is what I'm asking.

 

[WIP]

This question can easily be answered based on what I've already said in my previous post. These hard working pastors you're talking about, would they refuse to do their work if they don't get money for it? If so, then yeah, they're cheating on God because their behavior would demonstrate that their motivation is material. The amount is not the problem. Motivation is the issue.

Like I said earlier. It's the heart attitude.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Acts 2:44-45 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

It's not really me you're being sarcastic with.

No, I was referring to "your mythical" commune, not the quotes on how the early church worked. You don't say how you live out this life without money but have indicated you live in some kind of sharing community. I'm guessing its your parents' house, but whatever, that's between you and them and God.

I am very disappointed that you ignored everything else I said and continue to fixate on people working to support their families and give money to missionaries, churches, etc as being evil.

1 Corinthians 10:31
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Pretty sure that covers my hypothetical salesman working to earn a paycheck to support his family, as the Bible says he should.

 

[lisa-in-FL]

I'm going to add to this about sharing. Who is to say someone who is living a life of just sharing isn't motivated by survival? You can forsake material wealth but we still need to eat.
Motivation isn't the issue, its about what you are putting your faith in. God or what God provides you with?

JohnDB - Good "Wow" or bad wow? I can never tell with that emoji?

 

[lisa-in-FL]

You're being ridiculous.
It doesn't matter what I say or do I am evil incarnate to you.

Did it ever occur to you that actually you have the problem?

Some of us just don't care about money. My/Our value system is not based on money or material possessions. It's on something else. Where it's a powerful tool...that's all it is to us...just a tool and not an end in and of itself.

You seem obsessed with money.

I explained myself because people need examples of what they could possibly emulate. I ain't a saint but I ain't encouraging evil either.

I'm officially giving up on this thread. Keep doing what you're doing for the glory of God. The rest of us appreciate it!

 

[Edward]

No offense but I never got this. How do people know that it's God telling them to move to another state?

When God tells you something for real, He always has a way of confirming it to you. I'm phone friends with a Brother on this forum. One day he calls me up and say Ed, I dunno what this is about, but God told me to tell you to give your business to your son and move back to Ohio...

I was like, uh really? wow, uh...but then he continued and told me some more things that God told him, about me and my personal life. Words of knowledge about me. As he was talking saying these things, I was realizing that...I had never told him these things about me so there was no way he could know these things. Unless God did tell him these things! Conclusion? This is real. The message IS from God and that was the confirmation for it. That sorta scared me just a bit. I didn't really want to move. But He confirmed it so I was scared not to do it! SO here I am!!

Do you want to know how to hear God speaking to you more clearly and without doubt?

 

[JohnDB]

JohnDB - Good "Wow" or bad wow? I can never tell with that emoji?

It's a good WOW...

 

[Edward]

Brock to hear God more clearly, talk to Him more. Talk to Him as you read the bible. Say, what's that mean, Lord? and pause and listen and wait. Many times what seems like thoughts just popping into your head will come and this is Him! Many times but not always, so...is that you Lord?

and when you pray, we all ask questions. So be like you are when you speak to a person, pause and wait for an answer. Give Him time to speak.

Sometimes he just puts scriptures into my head, sometimes thoughts, Sometimes it sounds like my conscience speaking to me, other times it comes like a person would have a conversation and answer me or He will ask me a question!.

But you have to be willing to receive it and believe it. For those with ears to hear, let them hear. Don't dismiss it as imagination or your own thoughts. Understand that just because you can't see Him doesn't mean He wont talk to you.

You know that we have at least three different voices inside of us. Our flesh mind, God and the enemy. You have to get better at knowing who is talking in my head! I have said a lot, is that you Lord?

It gets easier knowing who's who. I used to think the enemy was always talking to me, but many times it was my own wicked heart, lol. When God speaks, He wont contradict scripture, wont tell you to do something you know is wrong or to go someplace that you know you shouldn't and it will sound like something that Jesus would say.

He used to speak to me through other people more because I was hard of hearing, lol! I would pray and ask about something and not hear Him so the next morning (lots of times!) the first video I click on on youtube answers my question of what I asked last night. Or I pick up the bible and it comes open right to the page which speaks to answer my question. That is a little spooky but it is sure real, Brother.

I talk to the Lord while I drive around going job to job. and I kid you not Brother, lots of times it...turns into a conversation, as if someone was really in the truck riding and talking with me. And He is! He is in me and beside me.

You have to try. You have to listen. Then you have to believe it and receive into your heart as real and fact. It comes down to the, you have to become as a little child to enter the Kingdom of God. Which is, believing without seeing, believing without understanding many times, just trust. Childlike faith to receive and be taught and led.

 

[Edward]

As a construction worker I get laid off from my job a lot. I'm always looking for the next job.
I am positive that God has provided me with jobs and work when I needed them.
Even over time when times were desperate.
I have been grateful to God for the opportunity to work. In response I have given "first fruits" by stroking my signature on the back of first paychecks of new jobs and given the money away...as well as giving substantive portions of my earnings to God. I consider the work and paychecks as a gift from God. God doesn't give bad gifts...only good things.

These days here in Nashville work is plentiful. Too much is available. There aren't enough of us skilled trades to go around. I'm getting old and tired.
But for a few I will do side jobs. Usually members of my church. Their residence I don't bill for. Their business'...I have to.

Even still...I don't want the work. I have more than enough. If God had wanted me to be wealthy with money He woulda done it by now. So why should I try to get more than what I need? The money from side work all goes to charity. I don't keep any of it.
People always shudder and tense up over the bills. Just part of their fears. Skilled tradesman are hard to come by these days. And because of that they have become very very expensive. I probably should charge more than I do. But since I never plan on keeping the money... maybe if I billed more I could keep the side jobs down even more. Dunno.
I got three coming up and just finished one. I can't seem to turn them down. The people asking are desperate for honest work. (A ton of schmucks have run about claiming skills but have none but demand high dollars)
I don't know what else to do.
I ain't living in a commune. That's a sure fire way to an agonizing slow death.

I know what you mean, Brother! And yes, the way to keep the side work down is, raise the price. This does two things. You either wont have to even mess with it, or, you'll make decent money.

My dad taught me how to bid and estimate. Bid as if you need the work and want to get the job, so be honest and fair in estimating materials and time...once you have that figure, double it. That will cover the unforeseen things that could crop up once the job is underway, assure that you get a fair profit that is on a level with your skill level, keeps the slumlords at a distance, and also allows you some room to be nice to the customer and knock a little off if the job went very well and quick and nothing cropped up with it. It's worked for me!.

The highest bid job that I ever won the bid for and did, I was the highest bid that they got...but he told me that even though I was higher than them, I got the job because he liked how I talk, better than them!

 

[Brock]

Do you want to know how to hear God speaking to you more clearly and without doubt?

Yes

 

[Truthfrees]

As a construction worker I get laid off from my job a lot. I'm always looking for the next job.
I am positive that God has provided me with jobs and work when I needed them.
Even over time when times were desperate.
I have been grateful to God for the opportunity to work. In response I have given "first fruits" by stroking my signature on the back of first paychecks of new jobs and given the money away...as well as giving substantive portions of my earnings to God. I consider the work and paychecks as a gift from God. God doesn't give bad gifts...only good things.

These days here in Nashville work is plentiful. Too much is available. There aren't enough of us skilled trades to go around. I'm getting old and tired.
But for a few I will do side jobs. Usually members of my church. Their residence I don't bill for. Their business'...I have to.

Even still...I don't want the work. I have more than enough. If God had wanted me to be wealthy with money He woulda done it by now. So why should I try to get more than what I need? The money from side work all goes to charity. I don't keep any of it.
People always shudder and tense up over the bills. Just part of their fears. Skilled tradesman are hard to come by these days. And because of that they have become very very expensive. I probably should charge more than I do. But since I never plan on keeping the money... maybe if I billed more I could keep the side jobs down even more. Dunno.
I got three coming up and just finished one. I can't seem to turn them down. The people asking are desperate for honest work. (A ton of schmucks have run about claiming skills but have none but demand high dollars)
I don't know what else to do.
I ain't living in a commune. That's a sure fire way to an agonizing slow death.

God bless you - wow - what an awesome ministry you do for those who are in need

praying in support of you and your charity work