God the Son from "The Catechism" of the Episcopal

[Sothenes]

The following is from "An Outline of the Faith commonly called "The Catechism" which is found at:

http://anglicansonline.org/basics/catec ... 0the%20Son

God the Son
Q. What do we mean when we say that Jesus is the only Son of God?
A. We mean that Jesus is the only perfect image of the Father, and shows us the nature of God.

Q. What is the nature of God revealed in Jesus?
A. God is love.

Q. What do we mean when we say that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and became incarnate from the Virgin Mary?
A. We mean that by God's own act, his divine Son received our human nature from the Virgin Mary, his mother.

Q. Why did he take our human nature?
A. The divine Son became human, so that in him human beings might be adopted as children of God, and be made heirs of God's kingdom.

Q. What is the great importance of Jesus' suffering and death?
A. By his obedience, even to suffering and death, Jesus made the offering which we could not make; in him we are freed from the power of sin and reconciled to God.

Q. What is the significance of Jesus' resurrection?
A. By his resurrection, Jesus overcame death and opened for us the way of eternal life.

Q. What do we mean when we say that he descended to the dead?
A. We mean that he went to the departed and offered them also the benefits of redemption.

Q. What do we mean when we say that he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father?
A. We mean that Jesus took our human nature into heaven where he now reigns with the Father and intercedes for us.

Q. How can we share in his victory over sin, suffering, and death?
A. We share in his victory when we are baptized into the New Covenant and become living members of Christ.

 

[Imagican]

And you know what? I agree with EVERYTHING posted here EXCEPT Jesus = God. Everything else IS what it is that ANY Christian would accept. It's the Jesus IS God part that changes the truth into something 'man-made'.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Well, I of course agree with the thing 100%. I believe that Jesus was "the Word [that] became flesh." And since "the Word was God," I believe Jesus was God. Now not God the Father but God the Son.

 

[Sothenes]

And you know what? I agree with EVERYTHING posted here EXCEPT Jesus = God. Everything else IS what it is that ANY Christian would accept. It's the Jesus IS God part that changes the truth into something 'man-made'.

Did you miss the part that says:

"God the Son"?

 

[mutzrein]

My problem with ANY doctrinal statement such as this is the premise upon which it is founded. When your premise says that Jesus is God then everything else become subject to it. And so the same words mean different things to different people according to your premise.

 

[gingercat]

I have been lisetening to Psalms tape 9-12 and it is very clear to me that the Psalmist is talking about God the Father and Jesus is the right hand of Him.

We should not trust RCC's interpretations: It is accomodating pagan religion.

 

[Sothenes]

I have been lisetening to Psalms tape 9-12 and it is very clear to me that the Psalmist is talking about God the Father and Jesus is the right hand of Him.

We should not trust RCC's interpretations: It is accomodating pagan religion.

I'm not R.C.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

I have been lisetening to Psalms tape 9-12 and it is very clear to me that the Psalmist is talking about God the Father and Jesus is the right hand of Him.

We should not trust RCC's interpretations: It is accomodating pagan religion.

I'm not R.C.

Not only that, "The Catechism" is an Episcopal catechism.

Oh and just so people know catechisms are not only found in Catholicism.

In fact a catechism is defined as such, according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechism
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A catechism (κατηχητικός in Greek) is a summary or exposition of doctrine, traditionally used in Christian religious teaching. Catechisms are doctrinal manuals often in the form of questions followed by answers to be memorized, a format that has sometimes been used in non-religious or secular contexts as well.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For further explanation please click the link given above.

 

[Imagican]

I have been lisetening to Psalms tape 9-12 and it is very clear to me that the Psalmist is talking about God the Father and Jesus is the right hand of Him.

We should not trust RCC's interpretations: It is accomodating pagan religion.

I'm not R.C.

You don't need be RC to accept what they 'created'. And 'trinity' is just that; an RCC 'creation'.

 

[gingercat]

I have been lisetening to Psalms tape 9-12 and it is very clear to me that the Psalmist is talking about God the Father and Jesus is the right hand of Him.

We should not trust RCC's interpretations: It is accomodating pagan religion.

I'm not R.C.

You don't need be RC to accept what they 'created'. And 'trinity' is just that; an RCC 'creation'.

That's my point :D

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Just out of curiosity,

What would the Catholic Church gain from making Jesus God if He wasn't?

 

[Sothenes]

I have been lisetening to Psalms tape 9-12 and it is very clear to me that the Psalmist is talking about God the Father and Jesus is the right hand of Him.

We should not trust RCC's interpretations: It is accomodating pagan religion.

You are offering us myth on Christianity because there is no historical or geographical evidence from respected scholars about what you are teaching.

"...it is critical to recognize that the Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods who headed up a pantheon of many other gods.20 But these triads constituted three separate gods (polytheism), which is utterly diferent from the doctrine of the Trinity-which maintains that there is only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one Godhead. Moreover, it has been pointed out that such pagan ideas predate Christianity by some two thousand years and were far removed from the part of the world where Christianity developed.21 From a historical and geographical perspective, then, the suggestion that Christianity borrowed the Trinitarian concept from pagans is quite infeasible."-"Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses" by Dr. Ron Rhodes

20 Paul G. Weathers,"Answering the Arguments of Jehovah's Witnesses Against the Trinity," Contend for the Faith, ed. Eric Pement (Chicago: EMNR, 1992), pp. 132, 136.
21 Robert M. Bowman, Why You Should Believe in the Trinity (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1989), p. 43.

 

[Klee shay]

What would the Catholic Church gain from making Jesus God if He wasn't?

I don't think it's a matter of what the Catholic Church would gain so much as it being what the Father would lose.

God did not call Jesus anything but His Son. By adding to what God instituted as truth, we take away from His Holy Word and promote an image of God that defies what he declared as truth.

 

[Klee shay]

The following is from "An Outline of the Faith commonly called "The Catechism" which is found at:

http://anglicansonline.org/basics/catec ... 0the%20Son

God the Son
Q. What do we mean when we say that Jesus is the only Son of God?
A. We mean that Jesus is the only perfect image of the Father, and shows us the nature of God.

Q. What is the nature of God revealed in Jesus?
A. God is love.

Q. What do we mean when we say that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and became incarnate from the Virgin Mary?
A. We mean that by God's own act, his divine Son received our human nature from the Virgin Mary, his mother.

Q. Why did he take our human nature?
A. The divine Son became human, so that in him human beings might be adopted as children of God, and be made heirs of God's kingdom.

Q. What is the great importance of Jesus' suffering and death?
A. By his obedience, even to suffering and death, Jesus made the offering which we could not make; in him we are freed from the power of sin and reconciled to God.

Q. What is the significance of Jesus' resurrection?
A. By his resurrection, Jesus overcame death and opened for us the way of eternal life.

Q. What do we mean when we say that he descended to the dead?
A. We mean that he went to the departed and offered them also the benefits of redemption.

Q. What do we mean when we say that he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father?
A. We mean that Jesus took our human nature into heaven where he now reigns with the Father and intercedes for us.

Q. How can we share in his victory over sin, suffering, and death?
A. We share in his victory when we are baptized into the New Covenant and become living members of Christ.

Sorry to say Sothenes, but this material looks like more self promotion of man's ideals based on God?

"What do we mean"; is a broad sweep of interpretation to what Jesus meant.

I see no scripture to back up these claims of "we mean". If we follow God through His Son Jesus; shouldn't we start with what Jesus taught?

I can see these Q&A's only causing more confusion for those just starting out; or at least desgined to harden the hearts of those "wanting" to follow Jesus without knowing him yet. This "we mean" promotes an idenity of God which leaves both God and Jesus's purifying words out of it - leading a novice into an understanding of a false God.

How then can God Himself; the living God, have a relationship with them?

 

[Sothenes]

Sorry to say Sothenes, but this material looks like more self promotion of man's ideals based on God?

"What do we mean"; is a broad sweep of interpretation to what Jesus meant.

I see no scripture to back up these claims of "we mean". If we follow God through His Son Jesus; shouldn't we start with what Jesus taught?

I can see these Q&A's only causing more confusion for those just starting out; or at least desgined to harden the hearts of those "wanting" to follow Jesus without knowing him yet. This "we mean" promotes an idenity of God which leaves both God and Jesus's purifying words out of it - leading a novice into an understanding of a false God.

How then can God Himself; the living God, have a relationship with them?

A church has the right to govern itself and offer discipline. There are about fourty authors who recorded what God wrote in the Bible and anyone could say that they are man's ideas or man's self promotion. It all starts with authority and if people don't like authority then they won't like the Bible either.

What "we mean" is an honest way to tell other people what the Church believes if they want to become a member and have a Catecism to keep outside, unregenerate and ungodly influences from changing the church.

A chatecism is "a series of question put to an individual (such as a political candidate) to elicit their views" and we should put people to the test if they desire to work in the Church. A chatecism is also a useful plumbline for anyone to determine whether the church has a clean bill of health. It leaves a recorded history to tell others what they believed.

definition from wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

How can God have a relationship with these people? Easy. They pray to Him and listen to God through the Word of God. I encourage you to continue with what Jesus taught but if people are going to teach Arianism from the Bible then it isn't what God taught.

 

[mutzrein]

+JMJ+

Just out of curiosity,

What would the Catholic Church gain from making Jesus God if He wasn't?

I think it is very plain to see what the Catholic Church has gained. Millions - people & money.

Scripture tells us that no-one can see or enter the kingdom of heaven unless they are born again. Now this is something founded totally on God's grace and has nothing to do with human decision. And as children of God our righteousness comes only through the One who has given us life.

According to the catholic church it seems, no-one can be saved unless they adhere to the catholic church's doctrine that Jesus is God. That is, you have to decide to believe in their interpretation that Jesus is God in order that you can receive eternal life. In a nutshell, it is fear. Believe as we do or go to hell.

That's a pretty big incentive to belong & believe don't you think.

But I will say this. The catholic church does not have this philosophy to themselves. There are many both within and without Christendom who preach a salvation that is not of the Spirit of God.

 

[gingercat]

I think it is very plain to see what the Catholic Church has gained. Millions - people & money.

Jesus says only a few find the truth. If your church or denomination is supported by many, you have to worry and watch out!

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

I think it is very plain to see what the Catholic Church has gained. Millions - people & money.

Do you believe that was the Church's intention?

But I will say this. The catholic church does not have this philosophy to themselves. There are many both within and without Christendom who preach a salvation that is not of the Spirit of God.

Who decides what is of the Spirit of God?

 

[gingercat]

+JMJ+

I think it is very plain to see what the Catholic Church has gained. Millions - people & money.

Do you believe that was the Church's intention?

[quote:d148d]But I will say this. The catholic church does not have this philosophy to themselves. There are many both within and without Christendom who preach a salvation that is not of the Spirit of God.

Who decides what is of the Spirit of God?[/quote:d148d]

Jesus says only a few find the truth. If your church or denomination is supported by many, you have to worry and watch out!

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Jesus says only a few find the truth. If your church or denomination is supported by many, you have to worry and watch out!

Supported by many?

Most priests can't walk down the street in their clerics without getting at least some dirty looks.

Catholics are viewed as bigoted, homophobic, anti-woman, judgemental, and by some of our own Christian bretheren, Pope/Mary worshiping idolaters.

If I were looking for support from the world, I would have to bag Catholicism.