God's discipline on unrepentant believers

[littlelight]

Rom 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
NIV


If the spirit of Jesus is in you the body is dead. Every believer has the spirit of Jesus so the body of every believer is dead. Our spirit is alive but the body is dead. Yet, all of us are still walking around. Does God lie? Maybe we aren't believers? Why are we still alive?

Rom 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Verse 11 tells us just why our mortal body is still alive. Notice that Paul wrote "if the spirit of Him who raised Jesus is living in you " He gives life to our mortal bodies. This if is the same if that is in Matt 5: 29 & 30. Not everyone's eye or hand offends them. So there is a possibility that the Spirit of the Father is not in you. If we are living then there is a good possibility that He is in us. Why wouldn't His (the Father's) spirit be in us?

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
NIV

As Romans 8:9 states we all have the spirit of Jesus and if we obey Jesus' teachings the the Spirit of the Father will be in us then our mortal bodies will live. Before I go further I am not implying when Christians die or are sick then that means they are not obedient. What I am saying is that if we are obedient then we will live to our predetermined death date. Sometimes being obedient leads to death as in the case of the martyrs. What I am saying is "if" we do not repent of our sins then we will die prematurely before our given time. Is there any other supporting scripture?

What about?

John 15:2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
NIV

1 Cor 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
NIV

1 Cor 11:29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
NKJV

All these scriptures support the conclusion that unconfessed sin causes early death. In Jn 15:2 cuts off could have been translated takes up. In 1Cor5:5 the sinful nature is translated flesh in some versions. 1Cor11 gives the progression, sickness then death. Romans 8:9-11 tell us how this is done. When we are disobedient the Father's Spirit leaves in an attempt to bring us into obedience. If we don't repent then our mortal bodies die and our spirit will live.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Before I go further I am not implying when Christians die or are sick then that means they are not obedient.

It sounds like you are getting READY to build the case for such a statement or doctrine.

What I am saying is "if" we do not repent of our sins then we will die prematurely before our given time.

Well, that didn't take long.

 

[littlelight]

It sounds like you are getting READY to build the case for such a statement or doctrine.


Well, that didn't take long.

No I am not. How do we know when God planned for them to die. All I am saying is if a Christian does not repent of sin then God will eventually call them home early. I could die tommorrow and it could have been my normal time in Gods plan or it could be because I was harboring sinful behavior that I am unwilling to part with. Only God would know. As Paul proved a Christian can have medical problems (or so some believe he had an eye problem) an it was not a sign of sin.

 

[Pizzaguy]

All I am saying is if a Christian does not repent of sin then God will eventually call them home early.

There you go again, why do you keep telling me that you are NOT saying this?

 

[Strangelove]

So.....wicked, unrepentant folk never die of old age?

How can you have 'unrepentant believers'? If you are unrepentant then you don't have true faith.

2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.​

 

[Mike]

There you go again, why do you keep telling me that you are NOT saying this?

:rolling

So.....wicked, unrepentant folk never die of old age?

How can you have 'unrepentant believers'? If you are unrepentant then you don't have true faith.

2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.​

No one actually dies of old age. They can die at it, but not of it. And who's to say what that age is? I agree with your response, though. The prophet Billy Joel tells us the complete opposite. ;)

 

[littlelight]

There you go again, why do you keep telling me that you are NOT saying this?

My position is :
A. All Christians die physically unless we happen to be here at the end times.

B. Some Christians die physically according to God's perfect will and in the time alloted to them. When they died they had no unconfessed in their heart. They died and went to heaven.

C. Some Christians die physically not in accordance to God's perfect will for their lives. They died early due to their unconfessed sin. They went to heaven.

This is the best I can state my position. I am sorry for my failure to communicate. May God bless you.

 

[Strangelove]

My position is :
A. All Christians die physically unless we happen to be here at the end times.

B. Some Christians die physically according to God's perfect will and in the time alloted to them. When they died they had no unconfessed in their heart. They died and went to heaven.

C. Some Christians die physically not in accordance to God's perfect will for their lives. They died early due to their unconfessed sin. They went to heaven.

This is the best I can state my position. I am sorry for my failure to communicate. May God bless you.

Thanks to Mike I need to alter my question to you...

Do 'christians' who dont confess their sin ever live a full life into old age?

Are you saying God kills people for being wicked?

So theres no naughty old folk?

 

[littlelight]

Thanks to Mike I need to alter my question to you...

Do 'christians' who dont confess their sin ever live a full life into old age?

Are you saying God kills people for being wicked?

So theres no naughty old folk?

<DIR>Do 'christians' who dont confess their sin ever live a full life into old age?

Maybe, if another Christian offers intercessory prayer.


Are you saying God kills people for being wicked?

The wages of sin is death. It's been that way since the garden. If a person has accepted Jesus then God disciplines those He loves. If that means discipline till physical death then God will take their life.


So theres no naughty old folk?

There is probably a lot of naughty old non christians. If you mean naughty old christians there is a lot fewer than non christians.




</DIR>May God bless you.

 

[Strangelove]

<DIR>Do 'christians' who dont confess their sin ever live a full life into old age?

Maybe, if another Christian offers intercessory prayer.


Are you saying God kills people for being wicked?

The wages of sin is death. It's been that way since the garden. If a person has accepted Jesus then God disciplines those He loves. If that means discipline till physical death then God will take their life.

Eternal death I think was the meaning there bud. As for physical death, mortality was still 100% for believers and non alike last time I checked. :

So theres no naughty old folk?

There is probably a lot of naughty old non christians. If you mean naughty old christians there is a lot fewer than non christians.

May God bless you.

Uhm.....do you agree or disagree that a person CANNOT be Christian if they are unrepentent sinners?

</DIR>

 

[littlelight]

Eternal death I think was the meaning there bud. As for physical death, mortality was still 100% for believers and non alike last time I checked. :




Uhm.....do you agree or disagree that a person CANNOT be Christian if they are unrepentent sinners?



<DIR></DIR>

I thought that eternal death would qualify for killing the wicked.

For your second question I thought that is what we were discussing. If not then how do you answer that question ?

 

[Strangelove]

I thought that eternal death would qualify for killing the wicked.

For your second question I thought that is what we were discussing. If not then how do you answer that question ?

I'm saying that theres no such thing as an unrepentent believer. Therefore the premise for the thread is faulty.

What say you?

 

[littlelight]

I'm saying that theres no such thing as an unrepentent believer. Therefore the premise for the thread is faulty.

What say you?

Acts 5:1-6
5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.
3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
NIV


If there is no unrepentant believer then were Ananias and Sapphira saved believers? If so did they lose salvation?

1 Cor 11:29-31
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
NIV

Same two questions for those who are sick and those that died.

2 Cor 12:21
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
NIV

These have not died but its obvious that they had been told to repent. Paul seems to think that there is a posibility that some may still have not repented. What's their status?

I have edited this because I wanted it to be understood that I believe all cited cases prove my point. To me it was obvious but I wanted there to be no misunderstanding.

 

[Christianlamb1]

A Christian that is told by the spirit of God to repent of something that God doesn't them to do and The spirit keeps knocking the believer becomes deaf to God, so long before that person is dead ,the believer is spiritually dead, if God has mercy on him, he takes the believer's life. But the smart thing to do is to do what God wants according to the bible.