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Got AIDS/diabetes? Proof of the medicinal benefits of peyote

Gary said:
Is peyote addictive or harmful?

It is not considered an addictive drug like cocaine, heroin or alcohol because it does not produce the same compulsive drug-seeking behavior. However, like addictive drugs, mescaline produces greater tolerance in some users who take the drug repeatedly. These users must take higher doses to achieve the same results as they have had in the past. This could be an extremely dangerous practice because of the unpredictability of the drug effect on an individual.
http://www.pamf.org/teen/risk/drugs/hal ... eyote.html

:crazyeyes:

[quote:12b6a]Although the DEA acknowledges the importance of the hallucinogenic cactus to the religious rites of Native American peyote users, the agency says the drug has a high potential for abuse and has no accepted medicinal purpose in the United States.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... ote19.html

:-?

The active ingredient in peyote, mescaline was first synthesized in 1919. By 1930 over a dozen states had outlawed possession of peyote. Various studies were conducted on peyote/mescaline during the 20th Century. No useful medical application of the drug was found. Peyote/mescaline was banned in the U.S. in 1967 and placed on Schedule I in 1970.
http://www.intheknowzone.com/halluc/what_mescaline.htm

8-)

Mescaline is a mild to moderately habit-forming substance with no physical addiction. It should be noted, though, that virtually any substance can be addictive, to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the user. It is a generally accepted notion among treatment professionals that the addiction, whether physical or psychological, is the problem, not the specific substance. Below are some treatment programs that may be useful for mescaline users as well as others seeking help with an addiction:
http://www.na.org
http://www.hazelden.org
http://www.caron.org
http://www.phoenixhouse.org
http://www.alinalodge.org
http://www.hafci.org
http://www.drugabusehelp.com/drugs/peyote/

[/quote:12b6a]



What did I ask for-

"Are you suggesting that peyote or other psychedelic plants are likely to be harmful in the context of religious use?

If you are indeed making that claim, then please provide citations, where religious use has been studied, and where there was found to be evidence of harm."


You haven't provided references, where religious use has been studied, and where evidence of harm has been found.


Try again Gary.
 
Gary said:
P.S. Back to the topic..... bring your PROOF. So far, you have added nothing of any significance to the debate. Typical.

:)


Gary has obviously lost it a bit here...


I am asking Gary to provide evidence for his own claim.

Gary is asking me to "bring proof" for a claim THAT I NEVER EVEN MADE!!!


:silly:


Is that not a smoke screen?
 
I have given you the proof..... now IF you would actually like to try and contribute something for a change ... TRY to bring the proof that "Got AIDS/diabetes? Proof of the medicinal benefits of peyote..."

IF you have PROOF, bring it.

:)
 
Gary said:
I have given you the proof.....


You haven't provided a single reference, where the use of peyote has been studied in the context of religious use, and where evidence of harm has been found.


Try again Gary.
 
Lets not get too angry here.....

Gary, I have the one source for the AIDS proof in the primary post I provided.....

Whether or not your AIDS expertise agrees with the statement is another matter.....

But there is a HYPOTHESIS among 3 other VERIFIED statements I made in the first post that show that peyote HAS and IS being used to heal...

I have shown...

1. A child healed from meningitis...
2. Alcoholics being treated sucessfully...
3. Unspiritual people being "converted" to a good fruits lifestyle...
4. NA people usinf the cactus for diabetes.....
5. Antibacterial experiments for the cactus......
6. 300,000 member Church that claims it as a helaing entity and Holy Sacrament....


What else do you want?

I am not here to argue small points but the "bigger picture" of its benificial use in the spiritual arena by the native and non native peoples of this country........

Plus you have never stepped foot in a tepee or takent the sacrament so how much "expertize" do you really have on the matter?
 
Gary, I have the one source for the AIDS proof in the primary post I provided.....
.... and I have shown you that the information about HIV/Aids in that post is wrong. It is not proof that peyote is a cure or that peyote helps HIV+ve people. In fact, I have shown that many other factors can lead to a change in CD4 count. The "proof" is not proof at all.

Secondly, the "proof" is undated, has no medical backup, has no names or verifiable places, doctors etc.

For you to claim that it is proof is simply wrong. IF you are any sort of university student, you will know that your plagiarized copy-n-paste has no substance in this area of HIV/Aids.

Go to your medical faculty at your university and present them with this "proof"..... they will laugh you off the campus!

In your plagiarized copy-n-paste, you said:

Soma-Sight said:
In a healthy body, a normal T-cell count is 1200. The first patient's, T-cell count was around 200 when he first came to see me. After seven days of steady use (50 to 100 drops of the extract, 4 times a day) his T-cell count increased to over 600. This person also switched to a natural whole foods diet and continued with herbs for the immune system. Within 3 months his T-cell count was above 800. To my knowledge, this patient was not using any standard AIDS medications, such as AZT. Today, four and a half years later, this person is still living with AIDS.

In a second case, the patient's T-cell count was initially at 300 when I began to work with him. After 2 months of similar treatment, his T-cell count was at 1000. This patient is also surviving with AIDS.

In both cases, the T-cell count was extremely low by medical standards. A peyote extract was administered in large enough dosages to affect a significant change, and the T-cell counts increased in a short period of time. Because both patents had been diagnosed with AIDS and are still alive four years later, I believe these cases indicate that peyote can be strengthening and or stimulating to a weakened immune system. I would encourage further detailed investigation by medical researchers.

What rubbish! Firstly, we know that this post is absolute hogwash as it uses the wrong terminology for HIV and Aids. Secondly, there are several very obvious mistakes and misinformation.

For instance:
Soma-Sight said:
In a healthy body, a normal T-cell count is 1200. The first patient's, T-cell count was around 200 when he first came to see me. After seven days of steady use (50 to 100 drops of the extract, 4 times a day) his T-cell count increased to over 600. This person also switched to a natural whole foods diet and continued with herbs for the immune system. Within 3 months his T-cell count was above 800. To my knowledge, this patient was not using any standard AIDS medications, such as AZT. Today, four and a half years later, this person is still living with AIDS.
IF the person is "still living with Aids" then they are very sick. Aids = CD4 count below 200 (or 350 in the USA and Europe) and, by definition, 3 or more symptoms.

Staying off ARVs for as long as possible

Many, many HIV+ve people (roughly 1 in 10) are living WITHOUT ARVs (antiretroviral treatment). We keep them OFF the ARVs as long as possible by a BALANCED diet and by watching and controlling OIs (opportunistic infections).

Secondly, CD4 counts is a continuos exercise with HIV+ ve clients..... and we perform both CD4 AND Viral Load counts (two tests) to determine the HIV+ve client's status and stage of disease (1, 2, 3 or 4)... only stage 4 is used to classify the HIV infection as having moved into Aids.

Thirdly, we have many "change of lifestyle" and "change of eating habits" which produce the same effect. (1) Eat a balanced diet (2) Eat more (your body is fighting an infection) (3) Eat plenty of vegetables and fruit every day. Eat dry beans, peas, lentils and soy regularly. Chicken, fish, milk, meat or eggs can be eaten often. Use salt sparingly (4) Exercise regularly (5) Avoid alcohol (6) Stop smoking (7) Minimise stress...... etc, etc

The last point alone can result in huge variations in CD4 count.

Lastly, an anecdotal sample of two is hardly "research" or proof.

The writer of this article knows ZIP/ZERO about HIV/Aids.... but you fall for it in your copy-n-paste.

:roll: :roll:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soma-Sight, like your New Age rubbish, it seems you fall very easily for any quack "cure"....

As I have said many, many times to you before: read and learn before you post.

LEARN about HIV/Aids: http://www.uniads.org
READ about peyote: http://www.unodc.org/unodc/report_1998- ... ge025.html
http://www.nida.nih.gov/DrugPages/DrugsofAbuse.html

It is irresponsible to promote these types of "cures".... people who could be saved and treated medically by proper, proven responses to HIV/Aids may listen to this rubbish and abandon the correct advise given to them by doctors and nutritionists. This is dangerous and can do long-term damage to your immune system which will only show up later in ARV drug resistance and later complications.

Take what I have written here to any doctor involved in HIV/Aids treatment or check it out against http://www.unaids.org


:-?
 
Soma-Sight said:
I am not here to argue small points but the "bigger picture" of its benificial use in the spiritual arena by the native and non native peoples of this country........
Oh.... then why did you label the topic of this post as "Got AIDS/diabetes? Proof of the medicinal benefits of peyote..."

Why were you being deceptive?

You have been unable to prove either point. You have claimed medicinal benefits of peyote in Aids/diabetes. Neither is true.

Now you say that you are actually here to argue the "beneficial use (of peyote) in the spiritual arena...."

I would like to understand why you have changed your argument. Why the deception?

:-?
 
We aren't qualified to talk about peyote. We have experienced the "sacrament".

I did live in a Teepee for about 6 months in Summerlake Oregon.

I worked with a 100% paiute Indian for almost 20 years. He was a devout Christian. He didn't take drugs.

He was one of "my people" ;-)

Peyote maybe considered a "sacrament" for devil worshippers.

"Why do you think they call it dope?"

:silly:
 
Soma-Sight said:
I have shown...
1. A child healed from meningitis...
Yeah, right!
www.meningitis.org said:
Most cases of viral meningitis are relatively mild, with symptoms of headache, fever and general ill feeling, and those affected recover without medical treatment.
http://www.meningitis.org
http://www.meningitis.org/content.jsp?sectno=5&subno=9

Sometimes the disease progresses with further symptoms: nausea and vomiting, stiff neck, sore throat, abdominal pain, muscle pain, photophobia, altered consciousness. Very unusually, it can become life-threatening or cause long-term after effects.

Viral meningitis is not usually associated with septicaemia.

Although most people recover within 5 days to a fortnight, it may take more time, and for some people the recovery period is prolonged. Antibiotics are ineffective against viruses, so treatment is normally limited to easing the symptoms of the disease (for example, painkillers for headache, anti-emetics to stop vomiting).

Just as well the parents left the child alone while they went cactus picking!!!

:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:
 
Peyote, use to be called Black Magic Mushroom in my hippie days, it was chewed, it was sort of like LSD. The Indians use to chew this stuff, so these people were going around tripping 100's of years ago. When I was younger I use to ingest LSD a lot, and I am glad those days are over.
 
Lewis W said:
Peyote, use to be called Black Magic Mushroom in my hippie days, it was chewed, it was sort of like LSD. The Indians use to chew this stuff, so these people were going around tripping 100's of years ago. When I was younger I use to ingest LSD a lot, and I am glad those days are over.

Good for you. I am an exhippie myself. I am not proud of those days and the pain it caused my family.

It grieves me to see drug use for recreation, "sacraments" :roll: being promoted especially when I have first hand knowledge of the horrendous consequences of the use of this drug.

God bless,

Robert
 
It grieves me to see drug use for recreation, "sacraments" being promoted especially when I have first hand knowledge of the horrendous consequences of the use of this drug.

God bless,

Robert

I am going to call you on this one.....

You have never tried Peyote BB....


Horrendous consequences??????

Really??

Well please point those out ot me!

MORE PEOPLE DIE FROM ASPIRIN EVERY YEAR THENALL THE PEYOTE TRIPS OF THIS CENTURY COMBINED!
 
Hey Gary,

Heres a little info from YOUR link....

The supposed BIG danger of peyote use is.....

What are the dangers?

The effects can cause a chemically induced model of mental illness.



WOW! Stop the presses! What a dangerous drug! A new way to think! We cant have that!

Lets take a comparitive look at YOUR sacrament for YOUR church which is ALCOHOL!

Alcohol
Alcohol goes directly into the bloodstream, physically affecting the whole body. Some illnesses and health problems caused by alcohol include:


Hangovers. Headaches, nausea, vomiting, aches and pains all result from drinking too much. Drinking to the point of drunkenness makes you sick.

Weight gain. Alcohol is not water. A beer has about 150 "empty" calories that provide few if any nutrients.

High blood pressure. Along with being overweight, high blood pressure is associated with many serious health problems.

Depressed immune system. Impaired immunity makes you more likely to contract viral illnesses such as flu and infections.

Cancer. 2-4% of all cancer cases are related to alcohol. Upper digestive tract cancers are the most common, hitting the esophagus, mouth, larynx, and pharynx. Women who drink prior to menopause are more likely to develop breast cancer. Your risk of skin cancer doubles if you drink slightly more than "moderate levels." Some studies implicate alcohol in colon, stomach, pancreas and lung cancer. And let's not forget the liver...

Liver disease. Heavy drinking can cause fatty liver, hepatitis, cirrhosis and cancer of the liver. The liver breaks down alcohol at the rate of only one drink per hour.

Alcohol poisoning. Drinking large amounts can result in alcohol poisoning, which causes unconsciousness and even death. Breathing slows, and the skin becomes cold and may look blue. Don't let a person in this condition "sleep it off." Call 911.

Heart or respiratory failure. Excessive drinking can have serious results. Heart or respiratory failure often means death.
 
My biological mother (was adopted at a young age and did not meet her until later in life) died of AIDS after being a prostitute and drug addict for years.

I for one would have gladly helped her to try any of these methods of healing or help if they had been studied and shown to have any positive effect at the time.

The drugs they gave her at the time she was going through this were disgusting in their effects on her body and mind. They nearly killed her on their own more then one time.

I have no doubt that God has placed healing substances on this earth for us to use. Is it peyote? I don't know but I won't say it isn't either.

I am one that fully advocates the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes. The drugs man has put on the market are more dangerous then marijuana and have not been shown to have the tremendous positive effects that it has.

I don't agree with drug abuse but if used to help people who are suffering, I say why not?

I think you put it better than I have here.....

Of course ALL drugs have side effects.....

As you have experinced with AIDS drugs....

Even aspirin and cough syrup can KILL you or cause harm in the correct circumstances....

To say Peyote has NEVER cured or healed an illness, is always bad, is always satanic to use, is antichrist is not only ignorant..... it is impossible to really know! The limited knowledge we have here from google and Gary's posts are antientheogenically biased and not an accurate portrayal of the truth in a historical or even modern setting.
 
Lets take a comparitive look at YOUR sacrament for YOUR church which is ALCOHOL!
Wrong... the liquid in question is wine. Nowhere can it be shown that the wine used during Jesus' time had the same alcohol content as now... it is believed that it had no alcoholic content at all.

Please refrain from using this Thread as a springboard to condone mescaline use. That is a violation of one of our rules here Soma.

Thanks,
Vic
 
Soma-Sight said:
It grieves me to see drug use for recreation, "sacraments" being promoted especially when I have first hand knowledge of the horrendous consequences of the use of this drug.

God bless,

Robert

I am going to call you on this one.....

You have never tried Peyote BB....


Horrendous consequences??????

Really??

Well please point those out ot me!

MORE PEOPLE DIE FROM ASPIRIN EVERY YEAR THENALL THE PEYOTE TRIPS OF THIS CENTURY COMBINED!

You can call me anytime. :P

Drugs like acid, peyote, used for recreational and religious purposes harm the users and reak havoc on the family and those who promote using this stuff had better not be selling it.

I would love to be an undercover narc. You know a what the bad guys call a "government fink".

I cannot respect people who promote drug use except for medicinal purposes.

I helped the police bust a drug house once.

Gave me a great deal of satisfaction. :D



:evil:
 
Wrong... the liquid in question is wine. Nowhere can it be shown that the wine used during Jesus' time had the same alcohol content as now... it is believed that it had no alcoholic content at all.

Please refrain from using this Thread as a springboard to condone mescaline use. That is a violation of one of our rules here Soma.

Thanks,
Vic

No prob vic, I am done with this thread.....

But I must say you are sounding more and more like an Adventist!

We use Grape juice (Welches) in place of (Wine).....

I guess I was referring to the Catholic Mass here......
 
You can call me anytime.

Drugs like acid, peyote, used for recreational and religious purposes harm the users and reak havoc on the family and those who promote using this stuff had better not be selling it.

I would love to be an undercover narc. You know a what the bad guys call a "government fink".

I cannot respect people who promote drug use except for medicinal purposes.

I helped the police bust a drug house once.

Gave me a great deal of satisfaction.

For some reason I am not surprised AT ALL that you would be involved in something like that....

Of course always remember that what I have demonstrated on these boards is the LEGAL BANA FIDE religious use of a sacrament....

SO dont go sniffing around too many tepees to fill our already full prison system with non violent cactus eaters..... :-D

I can just see it....

BB with the poilce outfit, Republican nat convention card and small print KJV in the back pocket busting some burn out hippy's butt...

That is AWESOME!

http://www.suntreecreations.net/sitebuilder/images/
happycustomerjames-159x427.jpg

cone_cop.jpg
 
Soma-Sight said:
But I must say you are sounding more and more like an Adventist!

We use Grape juice (Welches) in place of (Wine).....
No, I am just a plain ol' Bible believin' sinner. :angel: We use grape juice too. Welch's grape juice was originally produced for the purpose of being used in service; right here in good Ol' NJ too. :)

My point though was that wine doesn't need to have large amounts of alcohol to be called wine. Plus wine does have health benefits. Also, it was common for the Jews to dilute wine; 3 parts to one part water.

Isn't this more fun than talking about a cactus? :lol:
 
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