Grace vs Law - which is more important?

[Classik]

The question is not specific enough.
You have to specify what aspect of the law you're talking about:

In regard to the condemnation of the law, grace means little apart from the condemnation of the law.
In regard to the righteousness of the law, grace that does not uphold the righteousness of the law is no grace at all.
On the other hand, in regard to the covenant of the law, grace is far more superior.

They didn't specify either. I think the law in its entirety.
The Torah? Maybe.
I hadn't had time to even think about the need for specificity. But are there divisions in this case?
The 10 commandments? Is this an aspect of the law? Well I think it is a must do affair.

 

[Douglas Summers]

That was the scripture I had in mind when the discussion was going on. But I never bothered to give my stance.


However the man who summarised said, Grace shall end. (Grace shall never end!) But we are judged by the law

We are to uphold the Law! (Rom. 3:31) The law has it's purpose in condemning sin in sinful man so that it sends the condemned sinner to Christ in grace. That is the the purpose of the law...condemnation! It is often said by the lawless that you can not legislate righteousness. But that is what the law does, it condemns sin in the mortal man. That is the reason the liberal wants to get rid of the law in all places (commandments). Because void of the written law men are free from condemnation and guilt........(Rom. 7:7-14)

 

[Kidron]

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Its a good idea, once you realize that "Christ has redeemed you from the curse of the law", that you not pay any attention to someone who is trying to put it back on you.
Mark those who do, and realize that their salvation is a mess and their theology is worse.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

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Its a good idea, once you realize that "Christ has redeemed you from the curse of the law", that you not pay any attention to someone who is trying to put it back on you.
Mark those who do, and realize that their salvation is a mess and their theology is worse.

I do not know of any denominations that teach that a person is justified on the merit of keeping the law. And I have only known one or two people in all my thirty years as a Christian who thought they were justified on the basis of keeping laws. The problem in the church today is the exact opposite--a gross misunderstanding of grace that turns it into a license to continue in the sin Christ died to set them free from.

What ended was the condemnation of the law, not the righteous requirements of the law themselves as so many Protestants believe. Through the new way of faith in Christ we uphold the righteousness of the law, not destroy it as if somehow Christ released us from having to 'do' the righteousness of the law anymore and we can now freely sin with impunity.

I have noticed over the years of talking to Christians that so many false doctrines in the church spring from this one problem of the Protestant church being so terribly misinformed about Paul's law vs. grace argument. They think the end of the law means that faith is the end of having to be righteous in action, not knowing that to have faith in Christ IS to then uphold the righteousness of the law, and to think otherwise is to be terribly deceived.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They didn't specify either. I think the law in its entirety.

Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what they were talking about--the law in it's entirety and in all aspects. That is a terrible misunderstanding about the law that has pretty much overtaken the Protestant church: It only gets understood as a whole entity and in only one aspect, the aspect of judgment and condemnation.

I hadn't had time to even think about the need for specificity. But are there divisions in this case?
The 10 commandments? Is this an aspect of the law? Well I think it is a must do affair.

In very general terms faith--when we walk by the Spirit--keeps the moral and relational aspects of the law quite literally. God's grace does not remove the necessity for his people to "do no harm" to others (Romans 13:10 NASB). Faith at work in us fulfills the law in regard to those parts of the law.

And in regard to the ceremonial parts of the law, faith in Christ applies a far better and perfect work (Christ's work) to our account that makes it so the literal ceremonial requirements of the law are simply not needed anymore. Why draw close to God in the old ways of the old covenant (Sabbath's, Festival's, etc.) to accomplish what has already been done perfectly and forever for us through our faith in Christ's blood? Thus the reason the literal ceremonial laws have become obsolete and no longer needed to be literally done.

That's the fundamental aspects of the law that the OP doesn't address, but which really do need to be addressed in any discussion about the law.

 

[eddif]

Romans 3:22 KJV
Even the righteousness of God which isby faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

This is dure a lot different than the
II Chronicles 7:14

One is based on works of law, and the other on belief.

My work is to present the gospel. I preach not myself, but Christ Jesus.

The great commission is about:
Getting folks lost with the law.
Getting folks saved through the works of Jesus
Getting folks to receive the quickening spirit Jesus became.

I have no problem hearing a Holiness sermon
I have no problem hearing a salvation based on Christ sermon
I have no problem hearing a hell fire and brimstone sermon.
I have no problem hearing a sermon on receiving the Holy Spirit.
I have no problem hearing s fire sermon

All need to be doctrinally sound, but we need all things.

eddif

 

[eddif]

John 3:18 KJV
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The him is of course defined inJohn 3:16

The fact of declaring something clean is best seen in Peters call to the Gentile household:

1st the physical - rise Peter kill and eat
Acts 10:13 KJV
And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

2nd the spiritual -
Acts 10:28 KJV
And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Of course there is a whole passage to study. The physical food declared clean leads Peter to the knowledge that God is declaring the Gentiles clean. Peter has to mentally wonder what all this means. Today we still use the law lawfully to see deeper meanings.

Keeping the external law does not justify. The weightier / hidden deeper hidden things of the law are there to be found. Look for: mercy, grace, etc.

eddif