Bible Study Has God blinded some folks so that they cannot understand His Word?

[Drew]

If we can conclude that it's man who has taken the first step, then we are all good.

Well then, I guess we are indeed "all good".

 

[Sinthesis]

I don't think God hardens hearts against their owners' will, but He can give the self-willed what they need to feed their particular delusion so as to eventually be made an example for others who might be seduced by their path. He could also immediately afflict them so as to be made an example for others, but this might not be as effective.

Blindness could be attributed to God if the afflicted are looking for the wrong thing, or looking for something good but to an evil purpose, or have had their search for perfection overshadowed by the covetous familiarity of good-enough.

 

[smaller]

IF God did in fact do this, and I believe this is TRUE, then how much more was Pharaoh hardened?

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

If people are not used to Gods Conveyances in allegory, they will only, only see Pharaoh as a flesh man. That was NEVER the case.

Here, the real Pharaoh, stands up to be seen and recognized, in the spiritual senses:

Ezekiel 29:3
Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

Now, we have ALL read the scriptures long long enough to recognize by now who the GREAT DRAGON, PHARAOH really is. We are long past the time of recognition:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The WRAPS were thrown off this matter thousands of years ago, when the PROPHETs penned the Words of God above.

So WHY is it that we can NOT see it? See the notation on "who" is deceived, the WHOLE WORLD.

Are we still likewise deceived?

 

[smaller]

Yes, God in Christ beyond any doubt HARDENS the heart of Pharaoh, the great dragon.

Do you think the devil has a hard heart?

 

[Drew]

I suggest that the most "significant" case of God actually actively contributing to hardening is His hardening of many Israelites as per Paul's argument of Roman 9 to11. Here is one bit where Paul asserts that God actively participated in their hardening:

just as it is written,"God gave them a spirit of stupor, Eyes to see not and ears to hear not, [Romans 11:8, NASB]

I suggest the overall shape of Paul's argument is this:

- It is, on the surface, a deep and troubling mystery why many of God's own people have seemingly rejected their Messiah.
- Strange thought it may seem, God has hardened these Israelites in order for the world to be saved;
- He has hardened Israel through giving them the Law - the Law has the counter-intuitive effect of strengthening the power of sin;
- Through the Law, God is very intentionally seducing sin - seen as a power or a force - to 'take up residence' in the nation of Israel;
- Once there, sin is then transferred to Jesus on the Cross. Now sin is cornered - isolated in one spot and vulnerable - and God condemns sin on the Cross, with Jesus dying in the process;
- Israel played a key "setup" role in all this - being the place where God begins his plan of luring sin into a position of vulnerability;
- In this strange way, God has indeed kept His promise that Israel would be a blessing to all nations.

I am prepared to support this argument, if anyone is interested. It is not mine in origin - it comes from theologian NT Wright.

 

[smaller]

I'd suggest the Mr. Wright doesn't have clue one about either Pharaoh or the Great Dragon.

 

[Brother Mike]

I suggest that the most "significant" case of God actually actively contributing to hardening is His hardening of many Israelites as per Paul's argument of Roman 9 to11. Here is one bit where Paul asserts that God actively participated in their hardening:

just as it is written,"God gave them a spirit of stupor, Eyes to see not and ears to hear not, [Romans 11:8, NASB]

I suggest the overall shape of Paul's argument is this:

- It is, on the surface, a deep and troubling mystery why many of God's own people have seemingly rejected their Messiah.
- Strange thought it may seem, God has hardened these Israelites in order for the world to be saved;
- He has hardened Israel through giving them the Law - the Law has the counter-intuitive effect of strengthening the power of sin;
- Through the Law, God is very intentionally seducing sin - seen as a power or a force - to 'take up residence' in the nation of Israel;
- Once there, sin is then transferred to Jesus on the Cross. Now sin is cornered - isolated in one spot and vulnerable - and God condemns sin on the Cross, with Jesus dying in the process;
- Israel played a key "setup" role in all this - being the place where God begins his plan of luring sin into a position of vulnerability;
- In this strange way, God has indeed kept His promise that Israel would be a blessing to all nations.

I am prepared to support this argument, if anyone is interested. It is not mine in origin - it comes from theologian NT Wright.

While being Jealous of the Power that came with being a person under the Lord Jesus, and why I suspect the religious got really mad people being healed in the name of Jesus, and God doing great things for them, and the religious leaders having no such power. I don't see that today with the Jews, and it could be a whole lot of us are not walking in that power of anointing as we should.

Now, if Israel did accept Jesus, and kept God to themselves, then the question is would there be as many believers today? Instead of saying I believe in God, it might be I believe in the Jewish God who they serve Jesus.

The theory seems like speculation considering the rate of which Muslims seem to be growing for today's standards.

 

[Drew]

The theory seems like speculation considering the rate of which Muslims seem to be growing for today's standards.

I suspect that I am not successfully communicating this "theory" to you. What I am saying is that God hardened (some) Israelites as part of a plan to do something critical on the cross - defeat/condemn sin. I think the New Testament is pretty clear that sin was indeed in a sense "defeated" on the cross. I can provide the necessary texts if you like (although I realize it's hard to reconcile this claim with the present state of the world).

In short, the "theory" is about the plan leading to the cross, and not about how things play out afterward.

 

[Brother Mike]

I suspect that I am not successfully communicating this "theory" to you. What I am saying is that God hardened (some) Israelites as part of a plan to do something critical on the cross - defeat/condemn sin. I think the New Testament is pretty clear that sin was indeed in a sense "defeated" on the cross. I can provide the necessary texts if you like (although I realize it's hard to reconcile this claim with the present state of the world).

In short, the "theory" is about the plan leading to the cross, and not about how things play out afterward.

I see it in scripture with what Paul said, to provoke to Jealousy. Scripture is eternal, and always relevant. I don't see it today, but that could only possibly be that because of what you said, the Apostles did carry the Word to the Gentiles. Later Rome shut the Word off from the rest of the World, but they were considered "Christian" and from that other groups sprang up outside of the Jewish people again. I don't know, I can see what your saying though.