Hating people: is it ever right?

[YosefHayim]

Ye that love the LORD, hate evil, saith the scriptures.

We see that we must hate the things the Father hates: lasciviousness, covetousness, mallice, envy, etc., etc.,

Yet there is another scripture: 'I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.' Psalm 139:22

Other translations say "utter, extreme, total" hatred.

And from the context it seems like the psalmist in essence is saying "I have hated them which do evil, so see that there's nothing wrong with me."

I count them my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart!
Try me and know my thoughts!
24 And see if there be any grievous way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting!
(ESV)​

Is David wrong or right in his hatred? Should we hate others with perfect or complete hatred?

Is hatred that "Grievous way he must be tried for".

 

[Gary]

Matthew 5....(NKJV)
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[YosefHayim]

Matthew 5....(NKJV)
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Hate was OK in the OT?

 

[Jesse]

Hate was OK in the OT?

The standard has been increased under the New Covenant, therefore expectations on our part increases as well.. In the OT, you could not sleep with your brother's wife, now you can not even think about it otherwise you would have already sinned in your heart. Thinking about hating a brother is as if you have committed murder in your heart.

 

[john darling]

Yet there is another scripture: 'I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.' Psalm 139:22

I usually understand the word "perfect" to be something more like "mature" or "wise". So I'd interpret the above quote as something like, "I hate them with hatred which is not influenced by personal or emotional bias, but rather because I have a right understanding of why their behavior is bad enough to warrant hatred". Although that interpretation still doesn't address hatred for the person, specifically.

Maybe it should be something like this:
REV 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
REV 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

I know "love the sinner but hate the sin" sounds cliche these days but I think it's a fairly accurate description of what we need to do.

Jesus talked about hating families, though I'm inclined to believe he wasn't talking about hating the people, but rather, hating the emotional connections that could stop us from following God when family members object to some radical decision, like forsaking all (Lk 14:33) or "calling no man father" (Mt 23:7-11). I've seen family members crying out, "don't you love us, why are you doing this to us. Do you really hate us this much"? Our unwillingness to be swayed by emotional pressure comes across as cold and uncaring of their feelings, but it's not hate in the sense of deliberately wanting to hurt others.

 

[Willie T]

Hate was OK in the OT?

Do you want to live under the OT Covenant? That simple question should answer you.

That is one of the biggest mistakes we Christians make, wanting to take a little bit from the OT, and a little bit from the NT... and try to invent our own religion by living somewhere in between.

It don't work!

 

[john darling]

That is one of the biggest mistakes we Christians make, wanting to take a little bit from the OT, and a little bit from the NT... and try to invent our own religion by living somewhere in between.

I know what you mean. In the OT it was okay to work a night shift, but Jesus changed all that. At sundown, people aren't supposed to work anymore, but people still keep doing it.

JN 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Hate was OK in the OT?

There are many reasons in the OT why certain things were allowed, but in a sense this is a bit of relativism. That God had certain things allowed or not allowed based upon the context of their situation.

"He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9-9 (ESV)

Notice, that he notes the reason for the command not on some kind of moral principle, but on the basis of Israel's hard hearts. Jesus then appeals to the way things ought to be within the created order, that he designed one man for one woman and that this union that God has brought together should not be separated.

I think in this instance, it seemed necessary that Israel was allowed to hate their enemies, as they were tools for this judgment.

“Do not say in your heart, after the LORD your God has thrust them out before you, ‘It is because of my righteousness that the LORD has brought me in to possess this land,’ whereas it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out before you. Not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart are you going in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations the LORD your God is driving them out from before you, and that he may confirm the word that the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob." Deuteronomy 9:4-5 (ESV)

As that Covenant was just for the people of Israel, it called for a different mission and different laws and rules. The New Covenant is meant for everyone, people of every nation, tribe and tongue. We are to appear as Jesus appeared, who did not come to judge the world but to save it, through his love.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I know what you mean. In the OT it was okay to work a night shift, but Jesus changed all that. At sundown, people aren't supposed to work anymore, but people still keep doing it.

JN 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Not sure if you're joking, but Jesus wasn't giving a random command about working after sundown. He was appealing to his future death.

"We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” John 9:4-5 (ESV)

Jesus life and death are here contrasted as night and day, light and darkness. That he must continue his ministry of healing and declaring the Kingdom of God until the night comes. That is his death, and that while he is in the world he is the light of the world.

 

[Willie T]

I know what you mean. In the OT it was okay to work a night shift, but Jesus changed all that. At sundown, people aren't supposed to work anymore, but people still keep doing it.

JN 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Why do you play games with God's word?

 

[john darling]

Why do you play games with God's word?

Hi willie. Nah, I'm not playing games. I was just looking for an excuse to this this emoticon.

It's just hilarious.

 

[YosefHayim]

Do you want to live under the OT Covenant? That simple question should answer you.

That is one of the biggest mistakes we Christians make, wanting to take a little bit from the OT, and a little bit from the NT... and try to invent our own religion by living somewhere in between.

It don't work!

No.

But Isn't the "love your enemy" aspect in the OT?

Proverbs 25:21 - Feed your hungry enemies
Proverbs 24:17 - Don't rejoice when enemies fall
Exodus 23:4-5 - If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.

Even grace through faith alone is found in the OT genesis says "Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness," and in Ezekiel Yahweh says that people must turn from "his own righteousness".

Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, not destroy it. The law will pass away when heaven and earth do.

So is David's hate something he is not seeing which is a "grievous way" in him?

 

[Willie T]

No.

But Isn't the "love your enemy" aspect in the OT?

Proverbs 25:21 - Feed your hungry enemies
Proverbs 24:17 - Don't rejoice when enemies fall
Exodus 23:4-5 - If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.

Even grace through faith alone is found in the OT genesis says "Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness," and in Ezekiel Yahweh says that people must turn from "his own righteousness".

Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, not destroy it. The law will pass away when heaven and earth do.

So is David's hate something he is not seeing which is a "grievous way" in him?

As long as the OT Scripture we may want to seize upon agrees with the NT, fine. But many don't.

 

[Sinthesis]

No.

But Isn't the "love your enemy" aspect in the OT?

Proverbs 25:21 - Feed your hungry enemies
Proverbs 24:17 - Don't rejoice when enemies fall
Exodus 23:4-5 - If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again. If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.

Even grace through faith alone is found in the OT genesis says "Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness," and in Ezekiel Yahweh says that people must turn from "his own righteousness".

Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, not destroy it. The law will pass away when heaven and earth do.

So is David's hate something he is not seeing which is a "grievous way" in him?

In my opinion, David feels his hate for the enemies of God is justified, but he suspects he may be missing something, so he asks for God's thoughts.

Psa 139:17 - How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
Psa 139:18 - If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.
Psa 139:19 - Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.
Psa 139:20 - For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain.
Psa 139:21 - Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
Psa 139:22 - I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Psa 139:23 - Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
Psa 139:24 - And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.​

David's life, when searched by God, is exposed as having a wicked way, but prior to the work of Christ he could not have been lead in the way everlasting. So while David's hate of God's enemies may be justified under the old Covenant of Mercy, the new Covenant of Grace amounts to a gift of something not deserved, such as love for our or God's enemies.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Do you want to live under the OT Covenant? That simple question should answer you.

That is one of the biggest mistakes we Christians make, wanting to take a little bit from the OT, and a little bit from the NT... and try to invent our own religion by living somewhere in between.

It don't work!

Willie T Greetings,
Amen Brother !! Now that says can we have some word up in here.....
I see the same thing all over the place and pulling scriptures from here and there and placing them where they feel is correct and saying its God.
We are under a NEW Covenant and we are REDEEMED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW...
This does not say that the O.T is not needed for it is, but not everything in the O.T is appliable unto the new covenant. I hope I said this correct.