He will be called a Nazarene

[Mysteryman]

But anyway, Jesus was known to have been from Nazareth. Would it then be fair to infer that the author is simply affirming Jesus with the OT prophesies and thus simply "inserts city here".

Mysteryman said something close to that too. I think it's pretty clear from the passage that the author of Matthew is saying that it's the fact of coming from Nazareth that fulfills what was said through the prophets. Yet that prophecy is distinctly lacking from the Old Testament. I think there's only one conclusion to draw from this.

Well, don't leave us hanging, tell us what that one conclusion is?


But, before you do, you might want to take into consideration the finer details of what was said in Matthew 2:23: And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled: "He shall be called a Nazarene."

Notice the plural: "prophets." Contrast that with every other instance of a prophecy being fulfilled in Matthew:

Matt 2:5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

Matt 2:17 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet Jeremiah:

Matt 3:3a For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah

Matt 4:14 so that what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled:

Matt 12:17 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah:

Matt 13:14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

Matt 13:35a This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet:

Matt 15:7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:

Matt 21:4 This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying,


Every other instance of a specific prophecy being fulfilled in Matthew was spoken by a prophet (singular). That Matthew 2:23 uses the plural "prophets" fully supports what has been said regarding the matter--it is a summary of what was said by several prophets and there is no specific prophecy in mind here.

Free

You make a very valid statement here, that it does say in the plural - Prophets

Isa. 9:1
Psalms 68:27
Joshua 21:34 - "out of the tribe of Zebulun"

IN Christ - MM

 

[logical bob]

But anyway, Jesus was known to have been from Nazareth. Would it then be fair to infer that the author is simply affirming Jesus with the OT prophesies and thus simply "inserts city here".

Mysteryman said something close to that too. I think it's pretty clear from the passage that the author of Matthew is saying that it's the fact of coming from Nazareth that fulfills what was said through the prophets. Yet that prophecy is distinctly lacking from the Old Testament. I think there's only one conclusion to draw from this.

Well, don't leave us hanging, tell us what that one conclusion is.

I wasn't sure at first if I could post that conclusion within the forum rules, but having PMed Free it seems I can.

I suspect the author of Matthew simply made this prophecy up. He certainly liked to link details of his narrative to prophecies and, as Free pointed out, in all other cases he offers a specific quote to back it up. I think he’d have loved to use such a quote here but couldn’t because there isn’t one. Faced with the alternative of making it seem that Jesus came from Nazareth for no particular reason, which would have grated, I think he chanced his arm and invented a prophecy.

This might seem disrespectful but I think it does the author more credit than the alternatives. I think we showed above that the idea that “parched ground†refers specifically to Nazareth because “nothing good comes from there†doesn’t work. We also established that there’s no connection between the Nazrite sect and the town of Nazareth.

All that seems to leave is the suggestion that the messiah was to be a shoot out of dry ground or the stump of Jesse and that the Greek name Nazareth sounds a bit like the Hebrew word for shoot. Frankly, that’s like you saying “the chosen one will bring a time of rebirth†and me saying “look, this guy comes from Phoenix!†Or you saying “the chosen one will be like water out of dry ground†and me saying “hey, it’s a guy from Alice Springs!†It’s that lame, and surely a writer of this author’s capability can do better than cheap wordplay.

 

[glorydaz]

I know one thing for sure....Matthew didn't just "make it up".

He does say prophets (plural). He doesn't give a specific quote because at least more than one prophet alluded to it. I think when Matthew says the prophecies were “fulfilled,†he means that the predictions of the prophets were that Jesus would be low and despised... would be rejected and ridiculed, and that was accomplished by his having come from Nazareth.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Nazareth apparently had a bad reputation and Matthew knew that.

And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

 

[westtexas]

Joshua 21:34 - "out of the tribe of Zebulun"

Mysteryman, I didn't read through every post here so forgive me if I mis-understood what you posted here. You're not trying to say our Lord is a descendant of the tribe of Zebulun are you?

Westtexas

 

[Mysteryman]

Joshua 21:34 - "out of the tribe of Zebulun"

Mysteryman, I didn't read through every post here so forgive me if I mis-understood what you posted here. You're not trying to say our Lord is a descendant of the tribe of Zebulun are you?

Westtexas

Hello

No, he "came out of" is the understanding. It was prophesied that he would also come out of Egypt, which he did, after his family fled from Herod. Jesus came out of Egypt as well . Jesus being called a Nazarene, is because his family took up residence there after leaving Egypt. They went to Nazareth, and there is where he finished growing up. All the prophesies came true from/of the prophets within the OT.

Joshua 21:34 - "out of the tribe of Zebulun < This was one of the prophesies, that Jesus would come out of the tribe of Zebulun. Many things were hidden within the OT prophesies, and the reason that this is true, is because all the prophesies seem to be talking about someone of that day and time.

Even though the prophecy of the messiah as to where he was to be born and him coming out of Egypt and being called a Nazarene, were all prophesies that originally were talking about the events and people of that day and time that the prophesies were given.

Jesus coming out of the tribe of Zebulun was never a direct statement made by the prophets. Always indirect, in that the prophecy was about then and the future. The prophecy had a dual purpose.

We read in the book of Hebrews 7:14 that he would come out of a tribe that Moses did not speak of, concerning priesthood. We can easily conclude that the tribe that Moses didn't speak of concerning priesthood, was the tribe of Zebulun. The priest line came from Levi, the levitical priesthood, the son of Aaron, and Aaron was the older brother of Moses.

Love IN Christ - MM

 

[logical bob]

I know one thing for sure....Matthew didn't just "make it up".

He does say prophets (plural). He doesn't give a specific quote because at least more than one prophet alluded to it. I think when Matthew says the prophecies were “fulfilled,†he means that the predictions of the prophets were that Jesus would be low and despised... would be rejected and ridiculed, and that was accomplished by his having come from Nazareth.

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

[quote="Psalm 22:6-7":1uw310h6] But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Nazareth apparently had a bad reputation and Matthew knew that.

And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

[/quote:1uw310h6]
With respect, had the evangelist meant that he would have written "...he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: "He will be low and despised, rejected and ridiculed." "

The inescapable fact is that he claims that the prophets make a reference to Nazareth when in fact they don't.

 

[Mysteryman]

I know one thing for sure....Matthew didn't just "make it up".

He does say prophets (plural). He doesn't give a specific quote because at least more than one prophet alluded to it. I think when Matthew says the prophecies were “fulfilled,†he means that the predictions of the prophets were that Jesus would be low and despised... would be rejected and ridiculed, and that was accomplished by his having come from Nazareth.

[quote="Isaiah 53:3":fix27w27] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

[quote="Psalm 22:6-7":fix27w27] But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

Nazareth apparently had a bad reputation and Matthew knew that.

And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

[/quote:fix27w27]
With respect, had the evangelist meant that he would have written "...he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: "He will be low and despised, rejected and ridiculed." "

The inescapable fact is that he claims that the prophets make a reference to Nazareth when in fact they don't.[/quote:fix27w27]

Hi Bob

Directly , no. There is no direct reference of him coming out of Nazreth. But the Word does not say that he would come out of Nazareth. It states, that he will be called a Nazarene. All on 'has to do" is come out of Zebulun , in order to be called a Nazarene. And in Joshuah 21:34 is the prophecy that he will come out of the tribe of Zebulun. < That alone makes him a Nazarene !

Take care - IN Christ - MM