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Head Coverings & Hair Length

Psalm28:7

Member
Do you think Christian women still need to wear head coverings now? The Bible specifically mentions that women should wear them (1 Cor. 11: 3-16). I always reasoned that since I have long hair, it is "like" my head is covered, and I don't need to worry. But what about women with short hair or men with long hair? Is that wrong? Your thoughts and opinions?

Here is an article about the argument: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html
 
we had this discussion at my private school, and no girl i knew teacher or student that thought they needed to cover there head.

i agree with that. girls shouldnt have to do that any more nor should they really but im sure others have a different opinion i want to hear those. im kinda interested
 
This passage is referring to authority as head covering, not a hat or cloth. A woman's head covering is the man, and the man's is only Jesus, not another man including your pastor. A man is not to have a head covering when praying. There should be no one between him and God.


As for how long a man's hair should be, short. To have hair like a woman is disgraceful. You should pull your hair, i.e. take your hair in a handful behind your head and cut it past your fist... that would make it fall just above the shoulder.
 
Do you think Christian women still need to wear head coverings now? The Bible specifically mentions that women should wear them (1 Cor. 11: 3-16). I always reasoned that since I have long hair, it is "like" my head is covered, and I don't need to worry. But what about women with short hair or men with long hair? Is that wrong? Your thoughts and opinions?

Here is an article about the argument: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html

Head covering is neither for others to see nor required to wear the whole time. Read the verse again, it is required only when praying and prophesying not always. If you ignore it, it is up to you and God for it is God you are praying and not to any man.

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While I do not have total answers for all this, I do find this interesting.

I Corinthians 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

The fallen angels saw the daughters of men (during prayer ?). (sons of God and sons of men)
The Pharaoh realized the covering (?)

Genesis 12:18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?

If these recognize the importance of symbols (?) why do we not seem to understand?

If angels are messengers, who are the angels in the NT church? Are they the Revelation 2:20 angels of the seven churches?

eddif
 
eddif,

I'm not quite understanding where you are coming from as far as the reference to Pharaoh and Abraham is concerned. I can't see the connection to "head coverings" in the fact that Abraham lied and said that Sarah was his sister and not his wife.

The "because of the angels" statement is a hard one for us to understand. I'm not sure that anyone can say with absolute certainty what Paul meant by that. It's sort of up there with the "saved through child bearing" statement he made in his letter to Timothy. These are probably references to something within that place and time that would have made sense to them, but the fuller meaning is lost to us.

That women being under male authority is tied much more to God's plan for mankind as opposed to culture is very apparent. But the point is, the "symbol of authority" is to be worn when praying or prophesying within the assembly (the context of the text shows this) as opposed to just simply being a woman. This passage in no way states that women are to wear a head covering at all times. I don't even think it applies to women for all time (however I do respect women who, because of this text, wear head coverings in church). The underlying principle of women submitting to male authority is what is at issue here. In that culture, the head covering was symbolic of that. In our culture, we don't wear head coverings, and it would probably be very counter productive of our ability to effectively share the gospel if we did. But we women should still, because of the angels for whatever that reason involves, be submissive to male authority within the church and home.
 
Hm, my hair goes about halfway down my back... nobody's ever said anything negative about it, and it's mostly because I'm an equestrian as opposed to trying to make a statement or image. I really couldn't care less what length men or women keep their hair.

If we want to get really technical, women who have recently undergone treatment for cancer would be sinners until their hair grows back to a "proper" length. I don't see God's hand in that sort of a judgement.
 
Long hair was reference to the times. Harlots cut their hair short so that people knew what they were. This is a cultural issue that exemplifies 'avoid any appearance of evil'. In other words, don't give people a reason to doubt you.
 
Hm, my hair goes about halfway down my back... nobody's ever said anything negative about it, and it's mostly because I'm an equestrian as opposed to trying to make a statement or image. I really couldn't care less what length men or women keep their hair.

If we want to get really technical, women who have recently undergone treatment for cancer would be sinners until their hair grows back to a "proper" length. I don't see God's hand in that sort of a judgement.

Scripture does not say women cutting hair is a sin. What it says is, it is a shame. Both are different.

Also, sin is something that originates from within the heart and choosing evil as a choice, not something that can be forced from outside without leaving a choice to choose from.
 
So you think women recovering from cancer should be ashamed?

Shame is different from ashamed.

A shame exposed is one thing (Jer 13:26) and not ashamed because of it is another thing (Gen 2:25).

Please let me know why and for what reason, the women who are recovering from cancer must be ashamed of?
 
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Please let me know why and for what reason, the women who are recovering from cancer must be ashamed of?

No clue. You were the one who said women with their hair cut was a shame.

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reba
 
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Hi, DarkHorseRising. If you have any disputes about the action taken, feel free to take it up with myself or another moderator in a PM.
But please let's not pull this thread off topic.
 
Do you think Christian women still need to wear head coverings now? The Bible specifically mentions that women should wear them (1 Cor. 11: 3-16). I always reasoned that since I have long hair, it is "like" my head is covered, and I don't need to worry. But what about women with short hair or men with long hair? Is that wrong? Your thoughts and opinions?

Here is an article about the argument: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html

In Paul's day, the oral law said that Eve brought about the downfall of humanity, single-handedly. Adam was seen either as seduced by his wife into darkness, after she succumbed, or he was seen as eating the fruit as an act of loving sacrifice so Eve wouldn't be alone outside of Eden.

These traditions don't match the Torah's account, however, which has Adam present with Eve while both were tempted by the serpent. Also, Romans tells us that death entered the world through Adam's sin, not Eve's.

Nevertheless, the oral law found fault with Eve and said that all women should wear a head covering as a sign of shame for Eve's treachery. The rabbis of Paul's day also taught that a woman's hair was a sexual part of her body. Exposing her hair was like exposing her genitalia, in their minds.

So, women, particularly Jewish women had to cover their heads when in public, as a sign of shame, and as an expression of modesty. Not doing so was in fact grounds for divorce.

Contrary to this, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:7, that a woman is not the "shame" of man, rather she is his "glory." Given the social norms of Paul's day this was a very radical statement. So, women were not supposed to wear the veil of shame any longer. They may choose to, however, in mixed gatherings if their non-Christian, Jewish husbands were present.

Cheryl Schatz provides good information on this topic, here:
http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/07/12/shaming-the-head-2/

What Cheryl doesn't mention, as far as I can see, is that 1 Corinthians is a response to a letter Paul received from people in the church regarding ongoing arguments related to various traditions. One person seeking clarification from Paul was a woman in the church named Chloe. Paul mentions her by name in his letter, and says that people from her household brought a number of contentious issues to his attention.

The oldest copies of Paul's letter are Greek uncials. What this means is that all of the words are written in capital letters, there are absolutely no punctuation marks, nor are there even spaces between the words.

To understand the letter correctly, therefore, one needed to be well acquainted with its context. Chloe and others in Corinth would have known this, we do not. We do not have any copies of the letter Paul was answering.

In 1 Corinthians, it is clear that Paul is responding to a letter he received. There is evidence that he quotes this letter at times, and then responds to it. Some of his passages read like a contradictory dialogue for this reason.

Consider this passage from 1 Corinthians 11 as an example:
"For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; <SUP class=crossreference value='(M)'></SUP><SUP class=versenum>9 </SUP>neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. <SUP class=crossreference value='(N)'></SUP><SUP class=versenum>10 </SUP>It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own<SUP class=footnote value='[b]'>[b]</SUP> head, because of the angels."

<SUP class=versenum>Many scholars consider this to be a quote from the letter Paul received. They consider the following passage to be his response:</SUP>

<SUP class=versenum>11 "</SUP>Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. <SUP class=versenum>12 </SUP>For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God."

One passage seems to agree with (or be quoting from) the oral traditions of Paul's day. The next seems to challenge or correct this. I also think this is what we see in the discussion on head coverings.

P.S. Here is a photograph of one of the oldest Greek manuscripts containing Paul's writing: http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=p46+m...&w=566&h=800&ei=1NIQUPLcMe_I0AHyo4HIBg&zoom=1

You'll see what I mean with regard to punctuation and spacing. Some people think that their particular English translation of the Bible is crystal clear regarding its teaching on women. They've suggested to me that looking into the context of a letter is irrelevant. Well, since we are in fact dealing with a letter (one side of a conversation), since we don't have the letter Paul was responding to, and since Paul's letter has no punctuation, I believe attempting to understand the context is pivotal.

You may notice also that Paul is not in the habit of supporting those who attempt to impose Jewish traditions, or even the Torah, on Christians. For Paul to be supporting head coverings would be very inconsistent with his other letters explaining that Christians are no longer under the law.

Hope that sheds some light on a complex issue :)
 
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Thank you Bob for your knowledgeable input to this thread!

For Me: The subject of head coverings have been a source of entertainment/aggravation for the last 40 years....
 
No clue. You were the one who said women with their hair cut was a shame.

Shame is a noun and ashamed is adjective.

As a noun, shame is described as a painful feeling that may arise from the thought or the realization of something disgraceful, vile and detestable whether it be done by someone else or by oneself. Thus it is an emotion or an affect so to speak.

Conversely, ashamed is when one is feeling the shame.

Ref: differencebetween.net

Even a shaving a women's head is not a sin as it is mentioned in some of the rituals in the law. It is just mentioned for mourning, a symbolic for humiliation.

Anyway, back to topic, equating losing hair to shame is like mocking a disabled man for how he is. That is not what Bible is speaking about.

1 Cor 11:3-16
  • The verse is not speaking about already shaved women but comparing the dishonor of getting head shaved to not covering.
  • Since uncovered women who dishonors her head is same as if her head were shaved, Paul suggests that she must be shaved.
  • Hence, if a woman thinks it is shameful to be shaved, let her honor her head by covering it.
  • Her head is referred to her husband and the covering is the symbol of authority of him over her.
  • Scripture speaks about angels getting tempted and fall into sin (Gen 6:2;2Pet 2:4; Jude 1:6) and angels come as strangers as in Heb 13:2. Thus, a woman having a symbol of authority, is a reminder to angels that "she is not available", nor leave any temptations for angels to sin.
 
Do you think Christian women still need to wear head coverings now? The Bible specifically mentions that women should wear them (1 Cor. 11: 3-16). I always reasoned that since I have long hair, it is "like" my head is covered, and I don't need to worry. But what about women with short hair or men with long hair? Is that wrong? Your thoughts and opinions?
@#$%
Here is an article about the argument: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html
@#$%
All my sisters use head-coverings for church stuff.:lol
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how about men? It all depends on culture. (moral) decency applies.


This guy is cute, Carles Puyol
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Thank you Bob for your knowledgeable input to this thread!

For Me: The subject of head coverings have been a source of entertainment/aggravation for the last 40 years....

You're most welcome, I'm glad you found it useful :)
 
eddif,

...That women being under male authority is tied much more to God's plan for mankind as opposed to culture is very apparent. But the point is, the "symbol of authority" is to be worn when praying or prophesying within the assembly (the context of the text shows this) as opposed to just simply being a woman. This passage in no way states that women are to wear a head covering at all times. I don't even think it applies to women for all time (however I do respect women who, because of this text, wear head coverings in church). The underlying principle of women submitting to male authority is what is at issue here. In that culture, the head covering was symbolic of that. In our culture, we don't wear head coverings, and it would probably be very counter productive of our ability to effectively share the gospel if we did. But we women should still, because of the angels for whatever that reason involves, be submissive to male authority within the church and home.

Wow, thank you, everyone, for your input. This helped! :)

Looking at these verses from a cultural aspect, I can see how they can be applied to us now. Personally, I would admit to feeling a little silly if I wore a head covering. I especially liked to think that perhaps head coverings would be "counter productive." It's a good point.

From my understanding of your posts, women nowadays don't need to worry about hair length because it isn't the hair length that is the issue but the submission to your husband or God. Women could wear their hair short if they wanted to. As for head coverings, this might only need to be done during prayers, prophesying or other church matters. It's as Fedusenko said, "This is a cultural issue that exemplifies 'avoid any appearance of evil'. In other words, don't give people a reason to doubt you." Maintaining a pure, godly appearance and showing submission to authority is what I should take from these verses. It's what I feel God would want me to do if I wear head coverings or not.
 
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