Help Me Answer These Questions.

[westtexas]

I have a Bible class of 1,123 weekly and over 100,000 hits or seeds planted this past year

Have you got a link for your class? I'd like to check it out.
Westtexas

 

[BrenchStevens]

Mr. Pelvis,

I have not yet dismissed the concept of the devil. For starters, I'm sure that our forefathers had plenty of reason to draw such a conclusion from scripture. Secondly, it is spoken of in the New Testament several times. Although many of those instances refer to an adversary, some are different. Some refer to a demonic being. There are spiritual enemies out there. The reality of demonic possession has been witnessed by millions throughout the span of time. To say that demons to not exist is to deny several accounts in the Bible.

Although I agree that some instances where Satan is spoken of, it refers to an adversary, I do not agree that it does so in every instance.

 

[smaller]

Why is there no mention of satan or the devil in Abraham's lifetime ? Why is there no mention of the devil or satan in the first five books of the Bible ?

There are many references, but more covert. Satan has many references in text, some overt, some covert.

Where you see 'wicked' or 'wickedness' or 'sons of belial' or 'evil' or 'lawlessness' there is the activity of satan even though no overt name attached. Satan is the anti-christ spirit and is conveyed primarily allegorically because that working 'starts' in arena's that are not viewable to fleshly eyes.

Besides the book of Job there is no mention of the devil or satan any where in the old testament which spans 4,000
years.

Insert to the above, references to 'leviathan' and 'dragon' and 'serpent/snakes' and 'thorns' and 'wicked servants' and many more that are available along the trail of allegorical interpretations.

Jesus gave us 'the clues' as to HOW and WHERE Satan is found in the text. Without 'arming' ourselves with HIS information understanding will remain elusive:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

IF the above statements of Jesus are TRUE, which as believers we do believe those statements to be TRUE, then the 'activity' of Satan is IMMEDIATE in response to where THE WORD is sown. This principle of understanding can be deployed throughout the text beginning from the First Words of Blessings to Adam. The very NEXT WORD to Adam was THE LAW-> DO NOT EAT which also included the DEATH PENALTY. This shows the PRESENCE of the LAWLESS ONE had already done his work just as JESUS advised us above.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[westtexas]

Once the old testament teachings are understood then you can move on to the new testament
fitting the both together. Our Heavenly Father who loves us would not allow such a creature as the CHURCHES DESCRIBE. That is why Abraham, Isaac, Jacob never mention the devil or satan because it is a modern invention
of the churches to scare you into churches so they can collect money.

TOTALLY UNTRUE unless you want to consider the Septuagint a modern invention. satan-in Hebrew(7854) is an adversary, satanas-in Greek(4567) is also an adversary, antidikos-is a greek noun for an adversary or an enemy(476), antikeimai- is a Greek verb "to withstand as an adversary(480), diabolos (1228) is "an accuser" in Greek. From it comes the English word devil and it is used only as a proper name for Satan. Let's talk about the way the Greeks translated the Old Testament, unless it's too modern of an invention for you.
I've got to say though, I'm still not sure why you are trying to convince everyone that Satan is not in the scripture in the Old Testament.
Edited to add: Do you believe Satan is in the New Testament? I see in your post that you do not believe Satan tempts us or causes to sin. Who do you believe does?
Westtexas

 

[Oats]

Elvis, Have you researched the Old Testament thoroughly....The major prophets have much to say on this subject....

 

[Elvispelvis]

Oats said;
Elvis, Have you researched the Old Testament thoroughly....The major prophets have much to say on this subject....

All my adult life has been spent researching the old testament. Presently I have studied the old testament aprox,
fifty times. My teacher studied the old testament over 70 times , once a year, every year, all his life, so did his teacher before him and so on back to the Hugenots and Waldenses who were burned at the stake for telling people to read the Bible.

40 years ago I drowned in a river and prayed God let me live and I will search the Bible for you.

I became an RC, then High Anglican , then Charismatic Renewal, Jehovah's witness, then I met a group
that read the Bible from beginning to end every year studying Hebrew and Greek.

I left my band and went to religious school for three years learning how to study properly !

When you are taught by a bible scholar the old testament takes on a completely new life.

The truth shall set you free! Seek and you shall find ! Knock and it shall be opened for you!
From a child I have been taught that I must eat the word every day.

As the children in the wilderness had to collect manna from heaven once a day so do we.
To this day I read three chapters a day from the old testament every day of my life.

My favorite are the words of David and Solomon. Psalms , Proverbs.
Presently I teach the old testament online for free of coarse.

As I always begin, the Bible was not written in English. Yeshua does not speak English.
All the writers of the new testament are Jews.
Yeshua is a Jew. The promises were made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David, Yeshua.

We may be grafted in God willing.
Study to show thyself approved, a workman that need not be
ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, the bible.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling !


Please study the old testament.

 

[westtexas]

Presently I teach the old testament online for free of coarse.

Can we have a link? I would like to check it out.
Westtexas

 

[Chris]

whata clever question. I always assumed that the serpent in the garden of Eden was the first writing of the devil, and hadn't thought much more about it. I might have to have a think about this.

 

[Elvispelvis]

Thanks for the interest westexas.

We have a free bible coarse book online called Bible Basics that comes complete with questions.
If you Google it, it is easy to find.

My elders put together a book that tackles all the hard subjects.
Heaven , hell, death, eternity, God Manifestation,the mistaken identity of Yeshua, the kingdom to come, angels
sin, souls, money, sex and violence in the bible.

Or I have a personal training coarse through the emails to take you through at your own speed, however it requires that you read four bible chapters everyday. It takes most three years, but at the end you will be an Ordained Ministrer who serves the bread and the wine, gives the sermon, marries people, etc. ,

Equivalent College Coarse $15,000.
We never solicite funds at any time Freely have you been given, give freely!
We never have a collection for the public.


FOLLOWING ARE ACTUAL COLLEGE COARSES IF YOU PAY AT UNIVERSITY NOT OUR CLASSES !

BIB103 History II - Divided Kingdom (Course Syllabus)
3 credits
$335.89
The student will read the second half of I Kings and II Chronicles, II Kings, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi at a rate of about two chapters per day. He will discover, record, and share his insights from each chapter. The background and theme of each book are studied, and major biblical themes are traced. The student is exposed to proper principles of biblical interpretation and is required to work with them. The revelation of the Holy Spirit as the Author of the Scriptures is central throughout.


BIB104 Poetry Books (Course Syllabus)
3 credits
$317.89
The student will read Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon at a rate of about two chapters per day. He will discover, record, and share his insights from each chapter. The background and theme of each book are studied, and major biblical themes are traced. The student is exposed to proper principles of biblical interpretation and is required to work with them. The revelation of the Holy Spirit as the Author of the Scriptures is central throughout.


BIB105 Major Prophets (Course Syllabus)
3 credits
$305.89
The student will read Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, and Daniel at a rate of about two chapters per day. He will discover, record, and share his insights from each chapter. The background and theme of each book are studied, and major biblical themes are traced. The student is exposed to proper principles of biblical interpretation and is required to work with them. The revelation of the Holy Spirit as the Author of the Scriptures is central throughout.

 

[Neo]

As far as my understanding of the "devil" in the OT it is more on a level of parables and termonology rather than literal assumption. When they speak of the work of satan or "saw-tawn" they are speaking solely in terms of opposition to their cause and the works of gentiles. The devil actually evolved over time through the bible to become a physical manifestation of evil. The real devil is the acts of men which is what the OT depicts, but is later contradicted in the NT. The Tanakh is not very specific about a physical evil presence only an enlightened and benevolent presence which is the god of Israel.

 

[Elvispelvis]

Chris said;
whata clever question. I always assumed that the serpent in the garden of Eden was the first writing of the devil, and hadn't thought much more about it. I might have to have a think about this.

Elvis:

Thanks chris for the thoughtful words because someone else told me it was a stupid way to do things.
When just one person says maybe I will rethink satan, devil, lucifer it makes me so happy to think perhaps
someone else is about to become free like me.

The truth will set you free is talking about the devil.

Chris satan is not mentioned by the serpent when it comes time for punishment from God , Adam blamed Eve,
Eve blamed the serpent , so why did the serpent not blame satan?

The serpent was facing eternal punishment it would have cried from the roof tops the devil made me do it yet, it did not!,
If you know your bible the ass also spoke so God can make any creature talk.

God would not punish us for someone elses sin so why didnt the serpent blame satan?
Answer satan was not there!
That is a fable you heard past down through time from Dantes Inferno.

If you read the other posts they say there was no satan in Abrahams time yet the same person said that satan
was in the garden of Eden, which one is correct.?

Many others quote the new testament over and over, lacking the ability to keep the discussion to the old testament.
There fore proving my point that satan was not there in the Garden.!

The pathetic story of man's fall is related in Genesis chapter 3. The serpent was cursed for misquoting God's word and tempting Eve to disobey it. The man and woman were punished for their disobedience. But a ray of hope comes into this dark picture when God says to the serpent:-

"I will put enmity (hatred, opposition) between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it (the woman's seed) shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15).

This verse is highly concentrated; we need to carefully define the various things involved. A "seed" means a descendant or child, but it can also refer to the people associated with the particular "seed". We will see later that Abraham's "seed" was Jesus (Gal. 3:16), but that if we are "in" Jesus by baptism, then we also are the seed (Gal. 3:27-29). This word "seed" also refers to the idea of sperm (1 Pet. 1:23); so a true seed will have the characteristics of its father.

The seed of the serpent must therefore refer to that which has the family likeness of the serpent:-

* distorting God's Word
* lying
* leading others into sin.

there is not a literal person doing this, but that within us there is

* "our old man" of the flesh (Rom. 6:6)
* "the natural man" (1 Cor. 2:14)
* "the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts" (Eph. 4:22)
* "the old man with his deeds" (Col. 3:9).

This "man" of sin within us is the Biblical "devil", the seed of the serpent.

For those asking me who tempted Yeshua in the widerness the answer is HUMAN NATURE,
the evil in us all. He was like us the son of man.



Sincerley Craig

 

[smaller]

The seed of the serpent must therefore refer to that which has the family likeness of the serpent:-

* distorting God's Word
* lying
* leading others into sin.

there is not a literal person doing this, but that within us there is

* "our old man" of the flesh (Rom. 6:6)
* "the natural man" (1 Cor. 2:14)
* "the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts" (Eph. 4:22)
* "the old man with his deeds" (Col. 3:9).

This "man" of sin within us is the Biblical "devil", the seed of the serpent.

For those asking me who tempted Yeshua in the widerness the answer is HUMAN NATURE,
the evil in us all. He was like us the son of man.

Sincerley Craig

Your conclusion logically LEADS to the understanding that MANKIND (in whatever spin) ARE the only DEVILS and that there is no OTHER SEPARATE ENTITY than MANKIND as DEVILS.

That view, if that is your view, is DEMONIC itself.

There is NO DEVIL turned into a child of God in the entirety of the text.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Elvispelvis]

Neo said;
As far as my understanding of the "devil" in the OT it is more on a level of parables and termonology rather than literal assumption. When they speak of the work of satan or "saw-tawn" they are speaking solely in terms of opposition to their cause and the works of gentiles. The devil actually evolved over time through the bible to become a physical manifestation of evil. The real devil is the acts of men which is what the OT depicts, but is later contradicted in the NT. The Tanakh is not very specific about a physical evil presence only an enlightened and benevolent presence which is the god of Israel.

Elvis said:

Thank you Neo for your logical approach through history. Even many modern Jews believe the custom and traditon of goyheim, assimilation, christian Jews, say the devil made me do it.

Bible personification calling wisdom a woman,or the mountains cried out, the trees sang. It is called personification
used all through the bible. Evil personified, to do evil= devil is an English word.
The Greek word is not devil.

The title you used is the description from the old testament ' The God of Israel".

Neo "The Truth has Set You Free".

So I am not the only one out there folks.

 

[Neo]

Thanks, Elvis

Yes, there are people out there who input logic into religion and still consider themselves christian even though others don't. You don't need the bible to be a christian. You only need your faith.

 

[Chris]

ok one thing i do know there are demons. I have felt and seen them and they suck really badly. (Tho I am not scared of them they are just reject angels that didn't cut it to make decent ones) there is no denying they exist. the problem with a no devil existence as an entity in itself theory, really has problems for me for what I have seen and know exists. the same way i know the holy spirit does.

years ago one pushed me down in my bed and sorta choked me (It was a black thing like really transparent smoke)so i could't breathe. It stopped bothering me when i made it go away in Jesus name.

gee its all puzzling

 

[Elvispelvis]

Below are the exact phrases showing evil comes from God, not satan.

Jdg 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1Sa 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, [which are] before thee, to seek out a man, [who is] a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
1Sa 16:23 And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand.

1Sa 19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with [his] hand

Go ahead satan believers answer these verses explain how evil comes from God not satan?

Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]?

Hopefully you can see these are old testament verses were modern churches are sorely lacking in there
understanding of just where evil comes from.

Please study the old testament

 

[Chris]

it is an interesting thought and topic but i thought the new testament fulfills the old

Mark 1:13


13 And he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by Satan. And he was with the wild animals, and the angels were ministering to him.

i know this is a tangent. but asa beliver in christ and the bible as gods inspired word I just believe what it says.

 

[Chris]

1Sa 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand.

this is interesting an evil spirit caused prophecy. I like this concept-thought provoking, now i have to think about this and solve it

cheers

my mind is open i don't know everything, I'm just a believer.

 

[Chris]

i did abit of look up on some study notes - some the evil spirits some of written in the bible seem to refer to sickness or an unexplainable event. Epilepsy would be freaky to them.

Jesus cast out evil spirits. I got the impression that legion one he cast out into the herd of pigs was demonic.



afterthought

If you are in touch with the supernatural world these things are used. How else would occultists levitate and do the other weird stuff they do. How else do mediums talk to dead dudes, unless its just your third eye opening allows it. lol thats gonna confuse everyone now..... sorry

 

[Elvispelvis]

Chris "The truth shall set you free" from devils, satan, demons, goblins, ghosts.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]?

FOR THERE IS NO POWER BUT OF GOD.

Yes you are on the right track Yeshua healed the sick of diseases, epilepsy, insanity, lame, but the superstitious people said they had a demon.
I will address the new testament when I am finished with the old testament.