Hi and please help me!

[James Mason]

Hi all.

I don't know if agnostics are allowed on this forum, if not please let me know, but I really need some help...

I am scared that I may end up going to Hell (as a lot of my Christian friends tell me I will!) if I don't accept Jesus.

My problem is that I can't really make myself believe in Jesus and God and the events in the Bible. I have tried as hard as I can to make myself believe it's all true, and I have even read the Bible from cover to cover (I am a good reader!) and I have even been to church with them several times, but it just felt like I was "going through the motions".

No matter how hard I try, I just can't believe in it all for sure. I have tried to tell myself that I believe, and that I accept Jesus as my saviour, but I fear I am really just lying to myself when I tell myself that. I am worried that God would know it's a lie too, and will send me to Hell when I die because I didn't really believe in him.

I have also tried opening myself to God and asking for his help to let me believe in him, not trying to test him, mind you, but just asking that he make me able to accept him somehow, but nothing! I felt as though I was just talking to myself when I prayed and nobody's listening. (I felt a bit silly, actually)

I am very jealous of my Christian friends, because they have no trouble at all believing in God and Jesus and the Bible, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't make myself believe it like they do. I wish I could believe and be saved like they are, but it seems I"m not able to.

So, please help me. How can I make myself believe for certain in something that I seem to be unable to believe, in order not to go to Hell when I die? I'm not even sure Hell is real, but it might be, and I don't want to go there.

Thanks very much in advance,
James.

 

[freeway]

Hi James, first welcome to the forum, you'll find there is a lot of people that love Jesus. Each and everyone here or in all of creation can only know Jesus on their own personal level. You try to judge your relationship with God Jesus by what your friend tell you about their relationship. Knowing Jesus is a very personable thing. Some people are like a light just being turned on and while others its a slower process. You sound like a slow process and there is not one thing wrong with that. My advice is to keep praying, never stop, pray pray pray.. Myself, some things chanced instantly while other things took years, and sadly some I am still working on, or should say Jesus is still working on. You sir, be yourself after all is that not how God made you? Keep asking questions tons of questions, Pray always, keep talking to your friends, fine a good bible teaching Church. As I ask everyone that I talk to about God. What do you say about Jesus? Can He save you from "hell" yes and He only. Don't stress out to much. I heard one Pastor say if you are worried that you are not a Christian well then your are. Because a non believer does not worry about such things.. I could go on about this for a few pages but I will stop and let others tell you about the one that Saves completely, even the way we are.... Jesus.. praise Him..

 

[James Mason]

My advice is to keep praying, never stop, pray pray pray..

Hi there freeway, and thanks for your advice!

You sir, be yourself after all is that not how God made you?

I like this bit of advice. So you're saying that it's okay for me not to believe, because God would understand why I can't believe in him since he made me the way I am? And if he does exist and Hell is real, he wouldn't send me there because I wasn't able to believe in him with all my heart like some other people can?

Keep asking questions tons of questions, Pray always

This advice I don't like so much, since asking questions is what prevents me from believing it all to be true, and as I said before, when I tried to pray and ask for help I just felt a bit, well.. silly! The more questions I ask my Christian friends about why they believe, the more I think "well, I can't believe that! It doesn't make sense!! How can you believe all that stuff??"

Perhaps I should stop asking questions that have no satisfying answers, and just accept your first bit of advice to be the way God made me (ie. sceptical) without trying to pretend to be something else. The last thing I want to do is lie to myself.

Thanks for your help!

James.

 

[Vic C.]

My problem is that I can't really make myself believe in Jesus and God and the events in the Bible. I have tried as hard as I can to make myself believe it's all true, and I have even read the Bible from cover to cover (I am a good reader!) and I have even been to church with them several times, but it just felt like I was "going through the motions"

Hi James and welcome.

I want to say that just about everyone here may have felt much the same way before God came into their lives. Faith and belief can't be forced. Only the Lord knows when a person is ready to receive His revelations. Freeway was right; be yourself. Ask questions, express your doubts and trust me on this; when the day comes that you are saved, you will know it.

Many questions will be answered for you by HIM but... so many more questions will crop up and may seem overwhelming at first. I remember a time before I was saved, even though it seems so vague and distant, so I can relate to what you posted in your OP.

Peace

 

[freeway]

James said about freeway's advice:
So you're saying that it's okay for me not to believe, because God would understand why I can't believe in him since he made me the way I am? And if he does exist and Hell is real, he wouldn't send me there because I wasn't able to believe in him with all my heart like some other people can?

No you misunderstood, by staying the way you are, which I mean your unique personality. Trust Jesus. you are not going to know everything, but you will learn and grow. Be yourself, do not copy others just for the sake of fitting in. I am a Christian so I will say no its not OK to not believe in Jesus.
and thanks to Vic for his input also..freeway

 

[James Mason]

James said about freeway's advice:
So you're saying that it's okay for me not to believe, because God would understand why I can't believe in him since he made me the way I am? And if he does exist and Hell is real, he wouldn't send me there because I wasn't able to believe in him with all my heart like some other people can?

No you misunderstood, by staying the way you are, which I mean your unique personality.

But you misunderstand me... it is my "personality" which is preventing me from believing - I think my personality is hard-wired to be sceptical.

I don't want to go into all the reasons that make me think "Hmmm... that can't be right!" because I don't want this discussion to turn into an argument about proving god, etc. Suffice to say that there are many reasons to my mind, which make it impossible for me to believe 100% (or even less) in Jesus and the Bible, no matter how hard I've tried!

Like I said, I could pretend to believe, but deep down I know I'll only be pretending. And if God does turn out to be real, he would know I was only pretending too and send me to Hell, wouldn't he?

I am a Christian so I will say no its not OK to not believe in Jesus.

But now I'm worried again. If it is not OK to not believe, and I am unable to make myself believe, then what hope is there for me???? It doesn't feel like my fault if I can't bring myself to believe it all 100%, especially since I've tried as hard as I can to believe.

Nervous,
James.

 

[freeway]

James. just a short note here because I'm leaving for the day... I used to be hung up on UFO.. I believe Jesus was going to land in a ship and this was really going to shock the Christan's.. This I believed full heartening. After becoming a Christian this still stuck in my head. Why because I put so much faith into it. Why, because to think there were a God, well he would see the things that I loved to do that were wrong. So I never looked at religion. After becoming a believer I had to force myself to view this UFO stuff with a different outlook. By using the bible as a guide, I now know UFOs are demonic.. One point that always bugged me to no end, was why would aliens come from a million light yrs away just to blaspheme Jesus..??

 

[Timf]

My problem is that I can't really make myself believe in Jesus and God and the events in the Bible. I have tried as hard as I can to make myself believe it's all true, and I have even read the Bible from cover to cover (I am a good reader!) and I have even been to church with them several times, but it just felt like I was "going through the motions".

Faith = trust

Many people make the mistake of thinking that because they "believe" that Jesus existed as described in the Bible, that they will be going to heaven.

The Bible itself tells us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Faith is also described as existing in different quantities (the size of a mustard seed is used as an example).

The second mistake people can make is confusing Christianity with a denominational "package". This is the same problem people can have with Islam or Buddhism. They try all the procedures, rituals, activities, and methods, but it still seems to fit like a bad suit.

The key is to strip out all that is non-essential to avoid confusion and distraction.

Christianity is about Christ.

Jesus created the world. He planned from before the world was made to have to come and die for our sins so that we could be redeemed.

The fact that Jesus died for our sins does not save us. It is trusting in that fact.

Trust is the key because it is how we participate. We are told that we cannot trust unless the Father "draws" us. This is the key to identify who is going to respond to the Gospel.

Usually God "draws" us by giving us a thirst that can only be quenched by truth.

The person "drawn" by God may have to swim like a salmon against a river current of bad doctrine, strange church practices, ungodly "Christians" and even false teachers. Skepticism can be useful to cut through the manure. However, those drawn to truth often will not rest until they can find it.

Consider the man that reads the words of Jesus regarding if we should pay taxes. When he reads the words, "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's" he finds himself admiring a truth that seems to go deeper and deeper. It is in Christ we find the depth of truth and can finally rest and trust in truth.

Martin Luther held high the Bible and said, "Here I stand". This declaration is an example of placing faith. When we see in the person of Jesus the face of God and truth, we can likewise say, "Here I stand".

Truth is not an obscure intellectual abstraction that needs to be defined, classified, and categorized. Truth is truth and the heart that seeks it recognizes it and trusts in it. God set this up so that a child could do it, someone on their death bead could do it, and even those burdened with a secular education can do it.

We are bombarded with a tide of propaganda telling us that everything is relative, that there is no right and wrong, and nothing is absolute. Truth fights back against this tide of lies. Truth is light in darkness. Truth is no ambiguity, waffleing, compromise, or appeasement.

The secularists offer government as a substitute god. We are told that this "god" can provide for us and take care of us. The person drawn to truth sees the foolishness of such a proposition. There is a real God, there is real truth, and this God sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world.

The Son will be returning to collect those who are His. Judgment will be coming on those who are not.

 

[proveallthings]

James,
I will tell you how to get revelation from God. First of all, think of the things that you already know for sure. Things like the love you feel for those close to you, like knowing it is good to be kind or wrong to be cruel. This knowledge comes from your conscience. Another term for conscience it the light of Christ. We are all given this gift from birth. Spend some time meditating or pondering the truths that come to you from you conscience. Ask yourself, what things could I do to be a better member of my family. What things could I do to be a better employee or employer. What things could I do to be a better member of society. I assure you that ideas will come to your mind. Those ideas are personal revelation from God to you. As you obey your conscience, your conscience will increase in awareness, the light of Christ in you life will become brighter. You will become aware of more things you can do to draw closer to God. Just keep following your conscience and trust in God's love. Believe Him when He says that you will find what you seek.

 

[James Mason]

Hey thanks for taking the time to respond...

My problem is that I can't really make myself believe in Jesus and God and the events in the Bible. I have tried as hard as I can to make myself believe it's all true, and I have even read the Bible from cover to cover (I am a good reader!) and I have even been to church with them several times, but it just felt like I was "going through the motions".

Faith = trust

Many people make the mistake of thinking that because they "believe" that Jesus existed as described in the Bible, that they will be going to heaven.

The Bible itself tells us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith. Faith is also described as existing in different quantities (the size of a mustard seed is used as an example).

Great, I completely get what you're saying there.

The second mistake people can make is confusing Christianity with a denominational "package". This is the same problem people can have with Islam or Buddhism. They try all the procedures, rituals, activities, and methods, but it still seems to fit like a bad suit.

The key is to strip out all that is non-essential to avoid confusion and distraction.

Christianity is about Christ.

Yes. I get that too. It's not a "package". Nicely put. Strip away the trimmings... I see.

Jesus created the world. He planned from before the world was made to have to come and die for our sins so that we could be redeemed.

Now hold on there! This is where it starts to get freaky.

Now the risk I have here in telling you why I your advice doesn't go into my brain is that I will come off as though I'm trying to start a fight, and that's the last thing I want to do! But I don't see any other way of telling you what my problems are in accepting all this without, well, telling you what my problems are with accepting all this! (if you understand what I'm saying?)

First, when you say "Jesus created the world", I assume you mean that Jesus IS God, who created the Heavens and the Earth. You say that so matter-of-factly, but I have great trouble in accepting that that explanation is absolute fact. Any religion (and there have been some!) makes similar claims, so how can I be sure Christianity is right, but all those other religions are wrong?

Second, I don't see how Jesus really died, since he was supposed to have resurrected (thus not a real death). I don't really accept that he did resurrect, anyway... to me it's far more likely that that bit was a bit of superstition (people in those days were far more superstitious than we are today). There are lots of myths from all different cultures with people dying and coming back to life, and the chances that this one story happens to be real while the others aren't, quite frankly, doesn't sit well with me.

Even if he did die & resurrect to save us from our sins, I don't get why that was necessary? Why do we have sins in the first place because of a mistake a couple of my ancestors (Adam & Eve)? That doesn't really sound fair to me, and why couldn't God just say "you're forgiven!" instead of this elaborate business about sacrificing his son? Also, how does one man dying absolve me of sins? I mean, if I did a crime, I wouldn't expect someone else to serve my jail time for me, so how does Jesus' temporary death absolve my sins? I just don't see it, sorry.

The fact that Jesus died for our sins does not save us. It is trusting in that fact.

Trust is the key because it is how we participate. We are told that we cannot trust unless the Father "draws" us. This is the key to identify who is going to respond to the Gospel.

Usually God "draws" us by giving us a thirst that can only be quenched by truth.

The person "drawn" by God may have to swim like a salmon against a river current of bad doctrine, strange church practices, ungodly "Christians" and even false teachers. Skepticism can be useful to cut through the manure. However, those drawn to truth often will not rest until they can find it.

Consider the man that reads the words of Jesus regarding if we should pay taxes. When he reads the words, "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's" he finds himself admiring a truth that seems to go deeper and deeper. It is in Christ we find the depth of truth and can finally rest and trust in truth.

Okay, but it seems you've just replaced my complaint about belief with faith=trust. I suppose I could re-word my inital query to say "I'm incapable of trusting Jesus as my saviour", just as well as saying "I'm incapable of believing"... It's all the same thing. Inability to believe/Inability to trust/Inability to place faith in Christianity.

It doesn't seem fair to me that I will be sent to Hell if I can't bring myself to have faith, whereas a lot of other people have no problem in giving their faith to a particular religion.

...
The secularists offer government as a substitute god. We are told that this "god" can provide for us and take care of us.

Not I! I'm well aware that government is just people, and I think I'm generally more savvy than most people, so you needn't worry I"m replacing God with Government!!

The person drawn to truth sees the foolishness of such a proposition. There is a real God, there is real truth, and this God sent His Son to die for the sins of the whole world.

The Son will be returning to collect those who are His. Judgment will be coming on those who are not.

Okay so in that last part, you're just saying to me There IS a God, there IS a real truth, he DID send his son as thought it's indisputable fact, and you believe it firmly, whereas I can't believe it.

Why should I be doomed because I can't make myself believe what you can believe so easily? Is it my fault God made me the way I am... sceptical?

 

[James Mason]

Also thankyou proveallthings for trying to help me...

James,
I will tell you how to get revelation from God. First of all, think of the things that you already know for sure. Things like the love you feel for those close to you, like knowing it is good to be kind or wrong to be cruel. This knowledge comes from your conscience. Another term for conscience it the light of Christ.

That sounds very poetic ("light of christ") but it doesn't make me feel it's actually true in any way - it just comes across to me as a nice poetic metaphor, nothing more.

We are all given this gift from birth. Spend some time meditating or pondering the truths that come to you from you conscience. Ask yourself, what things could I do to be a better member of my family. What things could I do to be a better employee or employer. What things could I do to be a better member of society. I assure you that ideas will come to your mind. Those ideas are personal revelation from God to you. As you obey your conscience, your conscience will increase in awareness, the light of Christ in you life will become brighter. You will become aware of more things you can do to draw closer to God. Just keep following your conscience and trust in God's love. Believe Him when He says that you will find what you seek.

But this is my problem... When I sit and ponder, and REALLY think hard what I believe, my conscience is telling me not to believe one particular religion is real while all the others are false.

If I think about it in my heart of hearts, I can only see Christianity as just another religion. I was raised in a christian culture, so obviously it's closer to me than, say, Islam (which seems very alien to me), but If I stop and think hard and search my conscience, I know that this is only because I was raised in a Christian country.

If I had been born elsewhere, I'd probably be having the same doubts about another religion altogether. This seems so clear in my mind, it is what my conscience tells me to believe.

I feel that if I truly follow my conscience, and God is real, I will be punished by being sent to Hell.

But I feel that if I lie to myself, and pretend I have faith in Christ as my saviour, I will only be lying and if God is real I will be sent to Hell anyway.

No matter which way I look at it I feel I am doomed if God turns out to be real, and it doesn't seem fair that God would have created a creature like me who's doomed to Hell because of the way He made me in the first place.

Do you see my predicament?

 

[Timf]

James,

It sounds like you are having trouble trusting (faith) because you haven't been convinced that Christianity is true. It also sounds like the biggest reason you cannot accept Christianity as true is because it wouldn't be "fair" to others.

One objection people frequently have to Christianity is that eternal punishment for those who do not accept Christianity seems unjust. It should be understood that the Greek word often translated "eternal" is aion which is usually translated "age". My understanding of Christianity assumes punishment that is just (Hitler gets more punishment than my neighbor who just cheats on his taxes). The central tenet of Christianity is that we all deserve punishment for our sins, but that by the grace of God we can be joined to Christ and have His payment for our sins bring us out of judgment.

Regarding those who have never heard about Jesus, the Bible says that what can be known about God can be seen in creation so they are without excuse. This would mean that people can be held accountable for rejecting what is called a general revelation. The Bible does not specifically say that any can be saved through this general revelation, but it also does not say that they can't.

The Bible also describes humans as the creation of a potter in that we have no right to question He who created us. We are told that some are created for one purpose and others for another.

Many people come to the precipice in their philosophical journey. The stand at the edge of eternity and contemplate the Christian God. They often leave unconvinced because what they see is inconsistent with what they bring with them.

Many people bring with them an idea of "fairness". For them the Christian God cannot be true because He fails to meet the requirement that He be "fair". Like a child that is upset that a sibling has received something that he has not, "fair" is defined as everyone getting exactly the same thing.

In this way the Christian God appears to not be "fair". We all deserve punishment for our sins. If God were "fair", He would kill all of us. Instead, God paid the price for the sin of the world and offered everyone the opportunity to receive forgiveness for their sins. None would take it. God gives some special grace to receive His offer. These are the ones who are drawn to truth and are saved.

The world is saturated with ideas and beliefs such as "fairness" that are born from desire, nurtured in hope, defended by relativism, and clung to with desperation. I met a woman years ago who had recently graduated with a degree in psychology. She mentioned the phrase, "inner child" and I sort of chuckled. She seemed curious why I had reacted so and asked. I told there is no such thing as an "inner child". There is nothing more to support the idea of some sort of template of human perfection than the wish it were true. If it were true, we would know how it formed, where it resided, how we can transfer what it contains to repair what is damaged. This gave her pause as she reflected on what else she had unquestionably taken is as true without critical assessment.

If we conclude that God fails our test for being "fair" we should also consider if what we consider "fair" is real, true, or even good?

The search for truth is the search for what is certain, fixed, unchangeable, and right. If one thing is found to be certain, fixed, unchangeable, and right then other things can be seen as wrong. This is what many dislike about Christianity, if it is true, then other things are false. However, a search for truth will inevitably lead to failure to find truth or to that which is true. While many try to make Christianity into a type of "warm and fuzzy" place where no one feels bad, truth, by definition, will cause contention with that which is not true.

A point that many reach in their search for truth is the point where they have to choose between those things that make them feel good and those things that are true. Those who follow the path of feeling good, come to redefine truth as "go along and get along".

The person who wants to know what is true in spite of hardship and discomfort, often finds that as he draws nearer the cold light of truth, the love of Christ is the balm for what we see in ourselves and others. Truth can bring pain, but love transcends pain.

The God I believe in is not cruel or capricious. I cannot describe for you everything about my God so that you can decide for yourself if you feel he meets your criteria for accepting. I cannot convince or persuade you to trust in my God. I can only tell you what He has done for me and why I feel He is true and can be trusted. In the last analysis it comes down to the path you are on. If you are on the path of truth, you will at some point find that you have dropped into the uncomfortable world of conflict between what is true and what is false. If you are on a path to resolve differences and discovery harmony and peace, you may find yourself following the siren call of illusion.

 

[Mysteryman]

James

One verse came to my mind when it comes to a doubter. Did you know that Jesus had disciples that also doubted ?

Ever hear of doubting Thomas ?

Well, here is what the scripture says pertaining to doubting Thomas as well as others.

In John 20:27 - Reach and touch me and be not faithless, but believing.

Then Jesus said in John 20:29 - "Jesus saith unto him , Thomas , because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed"

Believers are "blessed" because we believe, yet we have not seen.

The difference between a doubter like Thomas and us Christians today, is that Thomas saw by touching him, and believed.

Think of it this way, if you can not believe within yourself today. When you see him , you then likewise will believe. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but you will believe at some point, even if you wait until the day that you have to see him. But be assured, you and I will see him.

I am just "blessed" to see and know him , even though my physical eyes have not seen him.

Love IN Christ - MM