Bible Study Holy Spirit First and Second Testaments

[for_his_glory]

This was after he had been anointed and the Holy Spirit had come upon him.
The Holy Spirit was taken away from Saul so that he was no longer comforted and a different spirit sent to him. [KJV]
YLT
1Sa 16:14 And the Spirit of Jehovah turned aside [departed] from Saul, and a spirit of sadness from Jehovah terrified him;

Like JustPassingThru said, I think this was an empowering like received on Pentecost and gifts of wisdom, prophecy, etc. was given to him.
I suspect he already had the Holy Spirit though because he had believing faith. I don't know how anyone could have faith in the suffering Messiah without the Holy Spirit revealing it to them. David prophesied about Him. Looking at his life and what God says about him, it appears to me that he had been sealed by the Holy Spirit since before this anointing.

I agree with JustPassingthru in #16 and has answered this quite well.

 

[Eugene]

Only believers from all of the ages, from Adam to the last saint saved in the millennium, that have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them is the Church, the Bride of Christ, 1 John 2:27,
When we are born again we receive the Holy Spirit, we have the Holy Spirit,

Who did Jesus say this to? Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, (BUT) and shall be in you.

Did they receive the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost? Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Do all receive the Holy when they are saved since Pentecost?

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? Evidently it was possible to have received Jesus within, but not the Holy Spirit.

How would they know? The proof? Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

You also insinuated that the entire church is the bride; do you have scripture to that effect? Thanks.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah, I agree with what you are saying David accomplished, that is not the point, he was not born again like we are, look at the verse you quoted,

I never said he was, just trying to compare scriptures about the Holy Spirit and His work in the OT and NT.
What do you mean by "all David accomplished?"

Psa 16:10

For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, Nor givest thy saintly one to see corruption.
Where did the soul of David go when he died? Luke 16:22
Where does our soul go when we die? 2 Cor 5:8

I'm not sure why you quoted Psalm 16:10?
Do you believe that scripture is talking about David?
I believe we go immediately to the Lord because the firstfruits were harvested.
I believe David went Sheol to wait until after the Christ rose as the firstfruits of the harvest before he could go.

How do your scriptures about where we go when we die relate to the Holy Spirit in the OT and NT?

It's two different dispensations, we are in the dispensation of grace. Eph 3:2
David lived during the dispensation of the law. The two dispensations do not over lap or can they exist at the same time, the four other dispensations did not over lap and neither do these. Blessings

I don't want to get into dispensations or covenants, that is much more involved than the work of the Holy Spirit in the OT compared to the NT and how the Holy Spirit was applied to people. What is the difference between the Holy Spirit 'coming upon' someone in the OT vs NT?

The plain scripture answers these simple questions.
Was David a prophet? yes
Did the Holy Spirit give David the ability to prophecy? yes
Did a prophet in the 1st century church have all the other gifts as well? no
Did the Holy Spirit ever leave David? no
Did the Holy Spirit leave Saul? yes
Is the Holy Spirit that 'came upon' David the same Holy Spirit present at Pentecost? yes

What are your thoughts about the Holy Spirit and how He worked in the OT vs NT?

In our text of 1 Sam 16:13 we find,
1. Samuel anointed David, rather than Jesus sending the Holy Spirit.
2.David was anointed with oil, the symbol, the type, of the Holy Spirit, on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit appeared like tongues of fire on all of the gathered believers
3. It was only David amongst his brethren that was anointed, it was not universal.
4. The Holy Spirit was not in David, it came upon him, on the day of Pentecost the believers had already received the Holy Spirit, John 20:22 He was in them and then the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Relating to your comments above by numbers.
1.Did Samuel give David the Holy Spirit or did God send the Holy Spirit?
2.True, and.....God sent the Holy Spirit which came upon David, correct?
3.True
4.Yes, the apostles had received the Holy Spirit from Jesus earlier and the Holy Spirit came 'upon' them at Pentecost. Yes, the Holy Spirit came upon David.

What does it mean to be 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit?
Why were/are they sealed by the Holy Spirit?
When do you believe in the NT that a person was/is 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit?
Could David have been 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit?

David was one of the fathers, the New Covenant was different from the Old Covenant of Sinai, the difference between the two covenants is the first was conditional on the people doing their part, the second is unconditional, it's God doing everything for us.

Yes the two covenant are different.

Here's something else to consider,

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:39

How could David 1000 years before Christ or any of the Old Testament Saints receive the Holy Spirit before the 17th of Nisan 32A.D.?

Maybe the same way John the Baptist did, God gave it to him. This is about John born and died before Jesus was glorified.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

We read the Holy Spirit came upon David, Samson, Othniel, and others to empower them to fight their enemies, we read in the New Testament the Holy Spirit came upon believers to preach the Gospel, which points out a definitive point for us, the Old Testament is physical and material, the New Testament is spiritual and eternal.I hope I have answered you question.
Blessings

I do not agree with you that the OT is physical and material and the NT is spiritual and eternal unless you are again just speaking of covenants. That's another topic, I think.

 

[Karl]

Wow!!! Sure glad it's Friday, I'll try and respond throughout the weekend.

Can someone please tell me how you place what has been said in that neat peach colored box so that I can reply to it?

Sinthesis post # 20, I think we can see that grace was working from the beginning with Adam, I personally don't believed any Old Testament saints were saved apart from grace. Eph 2:8, 9 what I meant was the dispensation of the law was approximately from the ten commandments of Sinai to Pentecost.

Eugene,I apologize for trying to answer in a hurry, ... when we are born again we receive the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in us, that starts a spiritual development that starts out as babes in Christ-children, teenagers-young adults and fathers (adults that are reproducing), John tells us all children know is Jesus is Lord, teenagers-young adults are more mature in that they are learning control over their fleshly nature through the Holy Spirit and adults are leading people to Christ.

We both know we don't trust children with the keys to the car or $10K in cash, the very fact they are children is because they have not or are learning responsibility, responsibility comes with maturity and with maturity we can be trusted with responsibility. So it is with the Holy Spirit, when He decides to activate or empower the gift (s) He gave us when we were born again will be when we are mature enough to use them responsibly, that is what I meant when I said He has us, we are His, we have died to our desires, taken up our cross and are following Jesus in the work He has for us.

Very quickly, the speaking in tongues mentioned in Acts correspond to the sign Jesus gave to the disciples of preaching the Gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and finally the ends of the earth Ephesus (also establishing Paul was the twelfth Apostle and not Matthias).

The Church as the Bride of Christ, 2 Cor 11:2, Rev 21:9, 22:17, there are many illustrations in the Old Testament concerning this, Abraham sends his servant to find a bride for Issac, Abraham being a type of the Father, Issac a type of the Son and the servant a type of the Holy Spirit (the servants name was Eliezer which means comforter) or the story of Ruth and Boaz, those are just two typologies of Jesus and His Bride, ...my question is if part of the Church is not the Bride then what would they be?

Blessings

 

[Deborah13]

JustPassingThru Peach box.

At the beginning of what you want in the peach box type the word quote in brackets [ ].
After the last word you want in the box do the same, but put this / between the [ and the q.

 

[Eugene]

Eugene,I apologize for trying to answer in a hurry, ... when we are born again we receive the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit takes up residence in us, that starts a spiritual development that starts out as babes in Christ-children, teenagers-young adults and fathers (adults that are reproducing), John tells us all children know is Jesus is Lord, teenagers-young adults are more mature in that they are learning control over their fleshly nature through the Holy Spirit and adults are leading people to Christ.

We both know we don't trust children with the keys to the car or $10K in cash, the very fact they are children is because they have not or are learning responsibility, responsibility comes with maturity and with maturity we can be trusted with responsibility. So it is with the Holy Spirit, when He decides to activate or empower the gift (s) He gave us when we were born again will be when we are mature enough to use them responsibly, that is what I meant when I said He has us, we are His, we have died to our desires, taken up our cross and are following Jesus in the work He has for us.

Very quickly, the speaking in tongues mentioned in Acts correspond to the sign Jesus gave to the disciples of preaching the Gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and finally the ends of the earth Ephesus (also establishing Paul was the twelfth Apostle and not Matthias).

The Church as the Bride of Christ, 2 Cor 11:2, Rev 21:9, 22:17, there are many illustrations in the Old Testament concerning this, Abraham sends his servant to find a bride for Issac, Abraham being a type of the Father, Issac a type of the Son and the servant a type of the Holy Spirit (the servants name was Eliezer which means comforter) or the story of Ruth and Boaz, those are just two typologies of Jesus and His Bride, ...my question is if part of the Church is not the Bride then what would they be?

Blessings

Dear Brother JustPassingThru, you indeed have the best illustration with Genesis Chapter Twenty-four depicting the bride of Christ. One thing to note might be that Eliezer was to take the bride out of Abraham’s people (Like Jesus taking out of the church a people for His name). “But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.”

The judgment is presently occurring in the church according to our walk. 1 Pet 4:17, “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God,” and as we read Revelation Chapters Two and Three that judgment is given. John is shown different cohorts of believers in the church such as the elders, living ones, great multitude, and 144,000. Some rule as joint heirs (Rom 8:17), and we read of them in Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (Or over) the earth. We see those that come out of great tribulation and their reward according to Rev 7:15 they are servants. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. We are shown yet another group of 144,000 standing before the elders and living ones in Rev 14:3 & Rev 14:4 which are the five wise virgins, and they follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

There are seven portions of the church written about in Revelation Chapters Two & Three, and only two have crowns; those of Smyrna in Rev 2:10, and Philadelphia in Rev 3:11. You brought forth the different levels in the Christian growth told us in 1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I personally do not believe Jesus is going to marry a child. A very good example is that of the Shulamite of the Song of Solomon. I Song Son 1:8 he calls her the fairest among women. Song 6:13 What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.

I’ll leave off here for the time being to see how this is received. As for all the church having received the infilling of the Holy Spirit I have to disagree. The question remains as Paul asked the disciples he met in Act 19:2, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

Please allow me to just ask this at this time:
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Are they saved yet after being baptized?
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Why did Paul lay hands on them if they were already filled with the Holy Ghost?
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Karl]

At the beginning of what you want in the peach box type the word quote in brackets [ ].
After the last word you want in the box do the same, but put this / between the [ and the q.

YES!!!! Thank you Deborah!

Okay, I'll try and answer you with the peach crates.

 

[Karl]

What do you mean by "all David accomplished?"

What did David accomplish? Anything spiritual? Wasn't everything David did (accomplished) an empowering of his flesh, the Holy Spirit guided the rock wit pinpoint accuracy to kill Goliath, evidently he was given super human strength to kill a bear and a lion, it was in his flesh that David killed 10,000's and Saul 1,000's, Samson to kill Philistines,Gideon to rout the Midianites,Bezaleel to build the Tabernacle, do you see what I'm seeing,
...however, in the New Testament the Holy Spirit moves in the supernatural realm of the spirit, Galileans speaking 17 different languages they had never studied or learned, Peter supernaturally healing a lame man just by speaking the name of Jesus, and many more supernatural incidents recorded, what was accomplished by the empowering of the Holy Spirit, ...people were being saved, born again, the church was growing, being added to daily, ...can you see the difference between what the empowering of the Holy Spirit was doing? In the Old Testament the Spirit was building a nation, in the New Testament the Holy Spirit is glorifying a man, ...our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's why we say the Old Testament is physical and material and the new Testament is spiritual and eternal.

I'm not sure why you quoted Psalm 16:10?
Do you believe that scripture is talking about David?
I believe we go immediately to the Lord because the firstfruits were harvested.
I believe David went Sheol to wait until after the Christ rose as the firstfruits of the harvest before he could go.

David is prophesying about the Messiah, my point was when he died he went to Sheol, meaning he was a believer, just not born again.

I don't want to get into dispensations or covenants, that is much more involved than the work of the Holy Spirit in the OT compared to the NT and how the Holy Spirit was applied to people. What is the difference between the Holy Spirit 'coming upon' someone in the OT vs NT?

But Deborah the Bible is all about dispensations and covenants, we need to know them to correctly divide [(teach) and that is what dispensations do, the divide the Word into eight chronological eras] the Word, if we don't know and understand the dispensations then we wont understand Rev 5:1

The plain scripture answers these simple questions.
Was David a prophet? yes David was a King who prophesied, his office, given to him by God, in the Word is King David
Did the Holy Spirit give David the ability to prophecy? yes yes
Did a prophet in the 1st century church have all the other gifts as well? no not all but several, Peter had the gift of tongues, interpretation, healing, miracles, Paul had many of the same too
Did the Holy Spirit ever leave David? no, the empowering of the Holy Spirit on David yes, he was almost killed by one of the brothers of Goliath, the presence of God, no, just like it is with us, you and I, we don't use our gifts 24/7, but we can remain in the presence of the Lord 24/7
Did the Holy Spirit leave Saul? yes yes
Is the Holy Spirit that 'came upon' David the same Holy Spirit present at Pentecost? yes yes, again my point is David was not born again, the Holy Spirit was not indwelling him, like I said the Holy was beside David and empowering David, but not living inside of him[/quote}

Relating to your comments above by numbers.
1.Did Samuel give David the Holy Spirit or did God send the Holy Spirit? Let's take this apart, Samuel poured oil on David, he didn't drink it, it was on the outside, on his clothes and body, in the New Testament Jesus breathed on the disciples and the were given a new eternal life (the word is
zōē), just like He breathed into the nostrils of Adam and Adam was given a biological body and life, then some time later the Father sent the Holy Spirit on the exact day of the Feast of First Fruits (Pentecost) as instructed to Moses, so, tell me, did God send the Holy Spirit two times, were there two Feasts of First Fruits, one to annoint David and another on the day of Pentecost?
2.True, and.....God sent the Holy Spirit which came upon David, correct? not sent, came upon, empowered, I know it sounds trivial, but the more we study the word the more we realize how precise it is, it's all about Divine design and not randomness.
3.True
4.Yes, the apostles had received the Holy Spirit from Jesus earlier and the Holy Spirit came 'upon' them at Pentecost. Yes, the Holy Spirit came upon David. you got it sis!

What does it mean to be 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit? Sealed is a commercial term, in those times when someone bought something their name, how much was paid and where it was to be delivered was written on a bill of sale and then attached to the item with hot wax, then the owner would use his ring, which was like a brand to us, and press it into the wax, authenticating it was his property, ...Jesus paid the price to redeem us, He actually bought us off of an action block, we are sealed and waiting to be delivered to our Master (owner) by the Holy Spirit living in us, it's supernatural, we can't see it, but like the wind John 3:8, we can see and experience it's (His) effects.
Why were/are they sealed by the Holy Spirit? to keep the demons at bay, they can see the Holy Spirit in us 1 John 4:4
When do you believe in the NT that a person was/is 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit? at the moment of conception 1 Pet 1:23
Could David have been 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit? nope, not the way we are and the Old Testament is silent on the subject, (sorry) different dispensation

Maybe the same way John the Baptist did, God gave it to him. This is about John born and died before Jesus was glorified.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

And Jesus also said:

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matt 11:11

Dear one, are you starting to see the dispensations?

I do not agree with you that the OT is physical and material and the NT is spiritual and eternal.

I hope by now you are starting to see the difference, ...where is the Old Testament is it not dead, did it not come-to-pass? Whereas we are spiritual, it's our inner man that has been renewed, that has been given eternal zoe life.

Blessings

 

[Karl]

The judgment is presently occurring in the church according to our walk. 1 Pet 4:17, “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God,”
Personally we, my wife and myself, believe we have just witnessed the judgement of God on a local church, we have been living witnesses, lights shinning in the darkness for twenty years, but they preferred the darkness to the light, disobedience rather than obedience, the vain imaginations rather than the Word of God, it's sad, we have family and friends we have been trying to warn for years...
and as we read Revelation Chapters Two and Three that judgment is given.
interesting I don't see any judgements in Rev 2 & 3, warnings and admonitions yes, but no judgements, ...care to explain?
John is shown different cohorts of believers in the church such as the elders, living ones, great multitude, and 144,000.
are you lumping all of these groups together in the chronological order of the book?
Some rule as joint heirs (Rom 8:17), and we read of them in Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (Or over) the earth.
We see those that come out of great tribulation and their reward according to Rev 7:15 they are servants. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
are you saying those that are saved during the Trib are a part of the Church?
We are shown yet another group of 144,000 standing before the elders and living ones in Rev 14:3 & Rev 14:4 which are the five wise virgins, and they follow the Lamb wherever He goes.
you've lost me on this one

There are seven portions of the church written about in Revelation Chapters Two & Three, and only two have crowns; those of Smyrna in Rev 2:10, and Philadelphia in Rev 3:11. You brought forth the different levels in the Christian growth told us in 1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I personally do not believe Jesus is going to marry a child. A very good example is that of the Shulamite of the Song of Solomon. I Song Son 1:8 he calls her the fairest among women. Song 6:13 What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.

There won't be any children in Heaven 1 John 3:2, Jesus is and adult and all saints will be adults, but there will be our recompenses at the Bema Seat of Christ which will determine our ability to experience and enjoy Heaven, there are saints that have been the church 50 years that are still Babes in Christ, they will spend Eternity in that spiritual state of maturity, saved, joyful but immature, then there is our faith, how much faith we have built up Hab 2:4 will determine where we can travel in Eternity, we all start our walk with the Lord with faith the size of a mustard seed, it's up to us to obey what the Lord tells us to do in faith or not.

I’ll leave off here for the time being to see how this is received. As for all the church having received the infilling of the Holy Spirit I have to disagree. The question remains as Paul asked the disciples he met in Act 19:2, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
What was there state? Disciples of John the Baptist. Acts 19:3
Please allow me to just ask this at this time:
Act 19:5 When they heard this,
you left out vs 4
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.Paul gave them the Gospel and
When they heard this, they were born again (indwelt with the Holy Spirit), then Paul baptized them in the Name of Jesus
they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Are they saved yet after being baptized?
They are saved before they were baptized, no one is save by baptism
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Why did Paul lay hands on them if they were already filled with the Holy Ghost?

to receive the empowering of the Holy Spirit in their lives..it was a special circumstance to show the disciples that they had completed the mission Jesus had given them, the Gospel had arrived at the ends of the world and to authenticate that Paul was the Lord's choice to replace Judas and not Matthias.

We must remember doctrine is established by three things, Jesus did it, the church in Acts practiced it and the Epistles explain it, the Book of Acts is a historical record that Luke wrote to his benefactor and not necessarily Church doctrine.

Blessings

 

[Karl]

Hey all, I changed my user name, just seems more friendly and personal.

Blessings,

Karl