Homosexuality- yet again

[Loren Michael]

Sign in store window reads:
Giant book sale!!

What?

1) Giant sale on books
2) Giant books are for sale
3) Books for giants are for sale

Never ceases to amaze me how people will choose 2 or 3 to avoid admitting #1.

if giants (or humongous books) were commonplace, there would be confusion. :wink:

 

[Rick W]

:

touche!

:

I've said my peace.
Christians view the practice as sinful. Others don't.
Christians view God as real and existing. Others don't.
Christians view the Word as truth. Others don't.

If I was still secular as I was some years ago there may have been a good chance that I would have agreed with all you posted. And fought side-by-side with you to support it. But something happened between then and now that wasn't of my doing and I came away with a different set of ethics and a new morality.

I hope and pray some day that spirit will be with you also and I mean no offense trust me.

peace

 

[Loren Michael]

:

touche!

:

I've said my peace.
Christians view the practice as sinful. Others don't.
Christians view God as real and existing. Others don't.
Christians view the Word as truth. Others don't.

If I was still secular as I was some years ago there may have been a good chance that I would have agreed with all you posted. And fought side-by-side with you to support it. But something happened between then and now that wasn't of my doing and I came away with a different set of ethics and a new morality.

I hope and pray some day that spirit will be with you also and I mean no offense trust me.

peace

i appreciate your understanding, and return the sentiment.

 

[Rick W]

 

[AHIMSA]

The common idea that homosexuality rises out of lust is a myth. I am a homosexual myself...do I struggle with lust? Of course! We all struggle with lust! However, pure lust isn't exaclty what defines a homosexual.

A homosexual couple, whether or not you can accept this, are in love. Yes that right, in love. Meaning that not only is there a sexual element to their relationship but a deep emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual connection. They love each other as a husband and wife. Wierd? Abnormal? Call it what you want, be afraid of it if you will, but its how we feel. Can you imagine being ripped away from your spouse, being told its wrong to love him or her?

I think we must ask ourselves "why would God want these people to be miserable?".

There are many gay people who have very deep and close relationships with God. They are good people, who serve the Lord and act kindly to others. Are you simply telling me they are decieved in their relationship with God? That they are going to hell but they just don't know it?

There was a good quote I heard once that said "Do not let your sense of morality get in the way of doing what is right"

I think that is important in the case of homosexuality. We have suffered enormously for being different, for being perceived as "sinful" and as "abominations". All this hurt, all this pain, all this suffering....for what? For some obscure sexual ethic? To put us back in line with this ambiguous notion of "God's plan"?

 

[Solo]

The common idea that homosexuality rises out of lust is a myth. I am a homosexual myself...do I struggle with lust? Of course! We all struggle with lust! However, pure lust isn't exaclty what defines a homosexual.

A homosexual couple, whether or not you can accept this, are in love. Yes that right, in love. Meaning that not only is there a sexual element to their relationship but a deep emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual connection. They love each other as a husband and wife. Wierd? Abnormal? Call it what you want, be afraid of it if you will, but its how we feel. Can you imagine being ripped away from your spouse, being told its wrong to love him or her?

I think we must ask ourselves "why would God want these people to be miserable?".

There are many gay people who have very deep and close relationships with God. They are good people, who serve the Lord and act kindly to others. Are you simply telling me they are decieved in their relationship with God? That they are going to hell but they just don't know it?

There was a good quote I heard once that said "Do not let your sense of morality get in the way of doing what is right"

I think that is important in the case of homosexuality. We have suffered enormously for being different, for being perceived as "sinful" and as "abominations". All this hurt, all this pain, all this suffering....for what? For some obscure sexual ethic? To put us back in line with this ambiguous notion of "God's plan"?

I think the question should be, why would homosexuals want to rebel against God just to fulfill a temporary worldly pleasure. A pedophile loves children but is not within the righteousness of God. An adulterer loves another man's wife, but is not within the righteousness of God. A murderer loves to rid his life of someone who annoys him, or does it for the love of money, but is not within the righteousness of God. All of these will be rewarded according to the judgment in store by the Word of God.

 

[greyfeather]

PotLuck,

I feel bad for these individuals , it happens in about 1 in 4, 000 births. Last year alone in Californa 5 of these teens were killed . See some people who do not understand think that these teens are gay. Doctors recomend that by the teen years , ones who are born trasgendered are ready to go through hormone theropy and sex change operations . Many will see this as an abomination to be born like that and also an abomination to have a sex change so they can be male or female. So for many its taboo to let anyone know which is hard . You ask how I felt , well I believe that if they choose to stay like they are or if they choose a sex and have the operation it makes no difference. I do not believe God would condem them because this is how they came from thier mothers womb. After all it dose say in he Bible that God knows you before you are born . I forget where the verse is , but its there. I also would never condem a person because of the way they where born. How say you on this issue . ?



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[Rick W]

We have the resources to handle most handicaps or disfigurement. The tough part is on the parents also since it's usually their decision on what course to take. Our science in the medical field should be brought to bear on this and other situations of like kind. My heart goes out to them and all the rest of those who are born disfigured or handicapped.

I sincerely hope this is not brought up to support homosexuality. The misfortune of others is a poor platform to stand on to shield a sinful practice to symphatize with those who refuse to accept the fact that many others before them faced their same dilemma, sought help and got it with the anticipated results. These are those who are the ex-gays, those whose stories are suppressed and ridiculed. Why?

We have in place many psychiatric institutions to deal with a wide variety of social problems. You know this as well as I do. There is also Christ, who turned me from my course of social recklessness.

Then there's sex itself. What priority do you place on sexual relations? How high on the list is sex in your life? Where is Casual sex, recreational sex, sex for the fun of it or whatever you care to call it on the list of life's pursuit of happiness? Is sex so important we're willing to abandon all form of social sexual morality to attain it, to make it acceptable, to tolerate it without restraint? If I don't have sex will I die? If I don't have sex will I go insane and become something I'm not? Hardly. There's a lot more to life than sex. But it seems many don't see it that way.

 

[SputnikBoy]

We have the resources to handle most handicaps or disfigurement. The tough part is on the parents also since it's usually their decision on what course to take. Our science in the medical field should be brought to bear on this and other situations of like kind. My heart goes out to them and all the rest of those who are born disfigured or handicapped.

I sincerely hope this is not brought up to support homosexuality.

While this question was not aimed at me, I am one who might at times appear to support homosexuality when I stand up to defend the right of the homosexual not to be treated by others as a lesser human being. Christians in particular are often guilty of inciting hostility and some do so with such flair. Worse than that is that they use the scriptures to support their hostility. When this occurs - for me anyway - the issue takes on another dimension that goes beyond the topic of homosexuality. Thankfully, I've seen little evidence on this forum by those who resort to tactics of hostility. But there ARE those that do!

Opposing 'hate mongering' or presenting pertinent points about human sexuality should not be construed as one's necessarily supporting homosexuality. In fact, since we're all adults we surely need to encourage other viewpoints on this issue that might be helpful in the long term for all concerned. Human sexuality is complex. It is more than a 'Christian issue' where 'problematic areas' of sexuality can be rectified simply by presenting 'appropriate' verses of scripture to 'shame' someone. Those who believe in that methodology are deluding themselves and have no business promoting their view as that of an 'expert'.

I can't speak for the one to whom the question was directed but I personally will never stand by and allow Christians to belittle a fellow human being simply because of their sexual orientation. You are not doing this, Potluck, but many Christians do. While this is a Christian forum which will not allow promotion of the homosexual lifestyle we need to recognize the difference between promoting the lifestyle and protecting the fellow human being from hostile attacks in the name of Christianity.

The misfortune of others is a poor platform to stand on to shield a sinful practice to symphatize with those who refuse to accept the fact that many others before them faced their same dilemma, sought help and got it with the anticipated results. These are those who are the ex-gays, those whose stories are suppressed and ridiculed. Why?

If there is such a thing as an 'ex-gay' who turned 'straight', then I'd love to hear from them. To be frank, I doubt that it can happen. They might choose to remain celebant, even marry for appearance sake, but as for their 'gay orientation' having been turned around ...I think the jury is still out on that one.

We have in place many psychiatric institutions to deal with a wide variety of social problems. You know this as well as I do. There is also Christ, who turned me from my course of social recklessness.

Yes, thank God for psychiatric institutions whose father was Sigmund Freud. Sex was the theme behind every Freudian theory. And, while Jesus IS the answer for the world today, there are homosexuals who still struggle with their orientation even after having called on Jesus.

Then there's sex itself. What priority do you place on sexual relations? How high on the list is sex in your life? Where is Casual sex, recreational sex, sex for the fun of it or whatever you care to call it on the list of life's pursuit of happiness? Is sex so important we're willing to abandon all form of social sexual morality to attain it, to make it acceptable, to tolerate it without restraint? If I don't have sex will I die? If I don't have sex will I go insane and become something I'm not? Hardly. There's a lot more to life than sex. But it seems many don't see it that way.

I agree with you whole-heartedly, Potluck. Now all we have to do is to convince the vast audience throughout the world who are so willingly/obliviously influenced by the continual bombardment of the 'sex-saturated' popular media.

 

[Rick W]

If there is such a thing as an 'ex-gay' who turned 'straight', then I'd love to hear from them. To be frank, I doubt that it can happen. They might choose to remain celebant, even marry for appearance sake, but as for their 'gay orientation' having been turned around ...I think the jury is still out on that one.

No jury out for ex-alcoholics.

Ex-gay movement plans Boston confab

The ex-gay movement is coming to Boston this fall, and a group of young LGBT activists plans to start protesting early.

I don't know how this came out since not many even heard about it.

If gays gather to the banner of tolerance then why are they protesting? Because it threatens their stance on their own agenda. To admit one can come out of homosexuality is to admit homosexuality is a choice. And they can't have that. Not at all. Thus, the endeavor to silence those who have a right to publicize their achievement.
I find this ironic but not surprising. People can become ex-alcoholics, ex-drug addicts, ex-anything but not ex-gays.

Will we help the ex-gay or will we ridicule him/her? The choice is yours.

 

[Rick W]

Former Homosexual Says the Issue is Not Protecting Marriage; It's Homosexuality

Today, Bennett is now happily married to his wife of 10 years and is the father of their two little children. He is also Executive Director of Stephen Bennett Ministries in Huntington, CT - which he describes as "a pro-family organization advocating for the traditional family, the protection of children and proclaiming the truth about homosexuality".

Subject: Tolerance

With respect to your article on tolerance of gays, I would add that tolerance should also extend to ex-gays. Each year, thousands of men and women with same sex attractions make the personal decision to leave homosexuality. However, some refuse to respect that choice. As a result, ex-gays are subject to a increasingly hostile environment where we are reviled simply because we dare to exist.

No doubt former homosexuals are a major threat to the gay community. That's quite apparent. If tolerance is the issue as many have said then why no tolerance for former homosexuals?

 

[AHIMSA]

I am gay, and I do not have a problem with ex-gays. I do believe that a significant number of them may be pretending to be an ex-gay to avoid the social problems...however it is not my place to tell someone that they are lying to me. I am sure there are legitimate ex-gays.

However, this does not mean homosexuality is a choice. We are naive to think that people are either just straight or gay. There are varying degrees of sexuality. Some are capable of changing their sexual preferences, others are farther down the scale and can not.

I do not have a problem with the "gay therapy" thing. The problem arises when someone says " I can change, so you can too." Well the fact is that many of us can not change and to force us into this therapy, whether being literally forced or socially pressured into it, can be harmful and has proven to be harmful to many people. The problem arises when people promote this therapy as though there is a "cure" for homosexuality, when in reality, I think only a small portion of people can change.

When people approach the nature/nurture debate, they approach it as though it as to be one or another. Either you were born gay, or you were raised to be gay. Again, things are rarely so black and white. I suspect that homosexuality is a mix of both nature and nuture, and that for some, depending person to person, sexuality is something that can be changed.

 

[greyfeather]

PotLuck,
No I did not bring up the question in support of the gay lifestyle. I ask a legitamit question for a reason, I have a relative my late mothers sister who had a child born with both genders. In thier case the parents belived that God in his wisdom gave this child to them after many years of trying and that they would have no operations done . They choose to name the child Ruth because the baby look to them as a girl on the outside , even though both genders were there. She was always loved , but growing up in a christian home she never dated because she herself was afraid she would be comitting a sin. Which was a shame because she never fit in and was teased, but it was her choose as well as she decided God had made her and this was something that would make her stronger, also that he did have a reason. I admired her greatly , she died about 10 years ago and through all the stuff she went through she never lost her faith. So what you say is true , a person dose not need to have sex in order to live. I just know how lonely a person born this way can be. Thats why I said I would not condem them if they made a chooce. I do not know where you interpited that I was trying to make a case for homosexuals. I guess I should have known better then to discuss gender disorder , I might have known someone would take it the wrong way. I will be sure to stay away from any homosexual topics from now on. I meant no harm sorry if you took it that way.


Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[stovebolts]

Greyfeather,
I am glad that you brought this up. You have asked some very good questions.

We will all go before God one day and when that day comes, it will be between you and God. How then, can we take sombody that was born transgender and tag them as homosexuals?

Let me offer this. If the parents choose that their child is a boy, and the boy dates other boys when he grows up, is he a homosexual or did his parents make the wrong choice? This also applies if the parents decided that they wanted a girl. Who then, are we to judge? Are we simply judging by outward appearance and does not God judge from what in our hearts?

So, I say to all that decide to ride this slippery slope, take care of yourself in Christ, and He will manifest his spirit in your life and be careful how you judge. If a transgender was made male appropriatly and he decides he enjoys other males, then the scriptures speak for themselves. However, if he was made male, and he should have been femal, then let the scriptures also speak for themselves for homosexuality comes from what's inside the heart and what is inside the heart, is manifest through our actions and words.

Now, I am sure somebody will come along and say, but what if somebody's is a homosexual from their heart... To that I would say that their heart is in the wrong place. Everyone, radically ALL should have their hearts in God, although some do not. Additionally, man and woman are one, and as one, they are to give honor to God the Father. As such, Christians are united as the body of Christ, for we are one with Christ, yet Christ is the Head of the Body as the man is head of his household.

Now, it doesn't matter if were talking about drugs, abortion, homosexuality or any other topic. We are to be members of the Body of Christ for that is the Gospel which needs to be preached to every person in every nation.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I do not know where you interpited that I was trying to make a case for homosexuals. I guess I should have known better then to discuss gender disorder , I might have known someone would take it the wrong way. I will be sure to stay away from any homosexual topics from now on. I meant no harm sorry if you took it that way.

This is not necessarily aimed at PotLuck, but 'suspicion' seems to be a knee-jerk response toward anyone who doesn't heap masses of condemnation on homosexuals. This really IS the epitome of 'homophobia' since it implies a fear that others might be tainted if one seems to be defending homosexuality. This is one of the reasons that we'll never reach a level of understanding on Christian forums as to where homosexuals are really coming from and what makes them tick. Before that ever happens the thread is closed down by some nervous moderator.

God, I'm sure, really doesn't need people to defend Him. He's big enough to be scrutinized, to be criticized, for others to even disagree with Him without His being offended. And yet Christians wrap God in cotton balls as though He's so fragile He might break if questioned. I personally question God on MANY OT issues where He comes across as little more than a bully. I just can't come to terms with some things and He knows how I feel about them. I don't think that my questions ruffle Him ...I really don't.

Anyway, I'm ranting.

 

[bibleberean]

This is a Christian forum. No one is going to blaspheme God here and get away with it.

I don't allow people to do that in my home. True Christian churches don't allow it in their assemblies and it is against the TOS in this forum to do it here.

It is out of respect for God we don't allow it. Not because God is too small to defend Himself.

Rule 15: No promoting any sinful behavior (Homosexual behavior, Lying, stealing, murder....etc.) Galatians 5:19-21
This is a Christian forum, and we go by what the bible says. The Bible clearly states sexual relations between people of the same gender are an abomination unto God.
Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27and Jude 1:7-8
If you have a problem with that you need to take it up with God.
While on this site show respect for God and our savior Jesus Christ.

Pretty clear don't ya think?

 

[bibleberean]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Proverbs 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Proverbs 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

 

[peace4all]

but when god murders people and supports rape its good?

Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)



I mean, here is the biggest thing i dont understand about any of this.


as BB says, teh bible CLEARLY states, what is a sin.

the bible also CLEARLY states, what to do about it. It doesn't say things like "don't let them marry, tell them they are wrong, argue" they say things more along the lines of "burn them, kill them, rape them, dash stone them" etc.

How can you be following your faith, if u only do 1/2 of what it says?

 

[bibleberean]

Zechariah 14:1-11 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

This is a prophecy of the Lord defending Jerusalem in the last days. Not God advocating rape and murder.

It is about justice and bringing peace to the earth.

Ezekiel 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

I am quite sure these things are puzzling to fools.

Atheists are fools and have no heart to understand the truth.

Psalms 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

I don't believe that most of the people who spend their time blaspheming our God have the slightest interest in becoming wise...

Proverbs 17:16 Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?

God is nothing but longsuffering and has given all of us stiffnecked sinners every chance to come to Him.

If a person misses God it is in spite of everything God has done for them.

Romans 5:6-8 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

There is no excuse for calling God a God of murder and rape.

We don't call judges that when they pass sentence of criminals for crimes they have commited.

God is fair and just. We shouldn't judge God by our own wicked hearts.

Matthew 11:27-29 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

It isn't that people "don't understand" it is that they "won't understand".

Fools!

 

[peace4all]

and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

ri·fle2 Audio pronunciation of "rifled" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rfl)
v. ri·fled, ri·fling, ri·fles
v. tr.

1. To search with intent to steal.
2. To ransack or plunder; pillage.
3. To rob: rifle a safe.



rav·ish Audio pronunciation of "ravished" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rvsh)
tr.v. rav·ished, rav·ish·ing, rav·ish·es

1. To seize and carry away by force.
2. To rape; violate.
3. To overwhelm with emotion; enrapture.




God does not ened to rape and steal to get a point across, and to take a town, does he?

it makes no sense to say God is going to be defending a town, by raping and stealing. killing, maybe. rape and steal?