How about election based on foreknowledge?

[Heidi]

so youre saying right now that you have no sin in your life you are perfect, you dont get angry, yell, lie, cheat, etc.

what does 1 john 1:9 say on this? Do you have a pastor or attend church?

Boy you sure don't read the bible! Again, you think that the quotes in the bible come from me. This is getting old. Read the bible for yourself so you can put 1 John 3:10 & 5:18 together with Romans 7:14-25, Romans 8:8-9 and Galatians 5:17-18.

Read Romans 7:14-25 to see that we don't choose to sin, but sin lives in us because we have a sinful nature. Then read Galatians 5:17-18 to see that we always have a struggle with sin, but the Holy Spirit will eventually win since he is stronger than Satan. We are being made holy until the last day of our lives.

So I'm not going to quote or explain the whole bible to you, please read it for yourself so you won't be asking so many questions.

 

[whirlwind]

so youre saying right now that you have no sin in your life you are perfect, you dont get angry, yell, lie, cheat, etc.

what does 1 john 1:9 say on this? Do you have a pastor or attend church?

Boy you sure don't read the bible! Again, you think that the quotes in the bible come from me. This is getting old. Read the bible for yourself so you can put 1 John 3:10 & 5:18 together with Romans 7:14-25, Romans 8:8-9 and Galatians 5:17-18.

Read Romans 7:14-25 to see that we don't choose to sin, but sin lives in us because we have a sinful nature. Then read Galatians 5:17-18 to see that we always have a struggle with sin, but the Holy Spirit will eventually win since he is stronger than Satan. We are being made holy until the last day of our lives.

So I'm not going to quote or explain the whole bible to you, please read it for yourself so you won't be asking so many questions.

:naughty :verysad

We all need to read with understanding...all of us. :yes

• 11 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the LORD must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themseles; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging fo the truth;
  
  1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

the bible is very clear that many are called few are chosen. the nets of the kingdom gather in all kinds and sizes of fish, good and bad, they will be sorted out. those who are elect are so because God before the foundation of the world purposed to form them for His intent to be saved to bring forth fruit and to be conformed into the image of Christ. Not only that but their good works were also determined by God before the foundation of the world for His purposes. He foreknew them because a master knows well how HE formed a vessel. God did not look into the future and know before hand what people would choose to do. That is proved by many things, one of which being that God himself ordained their good works as well as the people themsleves so their future works could not give them credit with God since their works are his forming.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

People who have a hard time with election usually is because of the same couple reasons.one is that they believe they chose God. Not only the scriptures but also each of their experiences prove this to be untrue. If God had not made a change in us and given us faith we would never have believed or come to Him. Despite what people believe, Gods grace is not given to all men, grace is entered into and we have access to grace only through faith. Faith is first not grace.

The next reason people have a hard time with it is they have the idea sort of like little children that it is unfair for some to get a " chance" and others not to. This reasoning is because the depths of sin is not fully understood. When we truly see how sinful we and all people are without Christ then we can see that no one deserves a chance.Everyone deserves hell. it is only by Gods grace and mercy given as He purposes that any escpaes eternal punishment.If all my children are in trouble and being punished and i am going to the store and have purpose for one of them to be there to accomplish a task i want done i can choose freely of which one i will take even though none of them deserves it. I can then let them out of punishment by mercy and take them with me so that they can do what i desire them to be with me to do and if they do it well i can even reward them. i can do this and do not need to explain myself to any of them because they are all guilty before me of doing wrong and i can give mercy to whoever i choose based on my purposes. this is exactly how God works. All people are confined under sin so no one deserves a chance. God takes who he wants to use for his purposes and he has ever right to do so. Every person who is not saved loves their wickedness they take pleasure in their sins they cannot know the truth and fully desire it until God has put a change in them to do so. all the thoughts and intents of the hearts of men are wicked until HE puts a new spirit in them, circumsied their heart and gives them one of flesh empowers them to kep his commandments etc...
Faith is a gift of God, without it no one can please God and without it no one has access into His grace.

 

[Heidi]

People who have a hard time with election usually is because of the same couple reasons.one is that they believe they chose God. Not only the scriptures but also each of their experiences prove this to be untrue. If God had not made a change in us and given us faith we would never have believed or come to Him. Despite what people believe, Gods grace is not given to all men, grace is entered into and we have access to grace only through faith. Faith is first not grace.

:amen I have provided a myriad of scripture demonstrating this and that is only a fraction of scripture that says that God is in complete control of everything that happens, including who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.

But it's human pride that resists God's control and pride is the single biggest thing keeping people from God. So the proud will arue tooth and nail against God's sovereignty even though many of them will claim they believe God is sovereign at the same time. :o

So I'm done listening to those contradictions for a while. Everyone has the bible and everyone will be held accountable for whether they believe it or not. I've done my part by presenting scripture. Good post.