satanisgoingtolakeoffire
Member
What i am exteremly confused about is how are we really saved? Some sites say we need faith+ works + belief, while others say we only need to believe on Jesus Christ. Does anyone know the real way we are saved?
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
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https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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How are really saved from hell?
- Thread starter satanisgoingtolakeoffire
- Start date
W
Webers_Home
Guest
John 3:14-16 relates Jesus' crucifixion to an incident in the Old Testament where Yhvh's people grumbled about the quality of God's providence and insolently demanded a better diet (Num 21:5-9). So in retribution; God sent a swarm of deadly snakes among them and whoever was bitten faced certain death; no exceptions. The snakes were very toxic.
So when the people realized the seriousness of their error, they begged Moses to intercede for them, and in response, God had Moses construct a replica of the deadly reptiles and hoist it up on a pole where everyone could see it. Whoever looked to the replica was cured; in point of fact, that replica was their only God-given means of curing snake bite. Nothing else would work: not charity, not sacrifices, not repentance, not scapulars, not Bible study, not Sunday school, not commandments, not church, not synagogue, not Sabbaths, not holy days of obligation, not yeshiva, not catechism, not holy water, not penance, not sacraments, not rosaries, not even their choice of religion-- in point of fact: nothing that most people typically associate with salvation would work; not even prayer and/or confession: only that replica.
Now fast-forward to the New Testament. The schoolmaster of Gal 3:24 leads his students to understand that their default afterlife destiny is the wrath of God; and the only way to avoid it is to rely upon Christ's crucifixion. Failure to look to his crucifixion as an adequate payment to ransom one's derrière from the wrath of God is an eo ipso guarantee of a horrific death penalty in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15: no exceptions. In point of fact, unbelievers are dead men walking even as we speak; viz: toast on the hoof.
†. John 3:18 . . He who believes in him is not condemned; but he who disbelieves is condemned already.
Why are disbelievers condemned already? Because non-compliance with the laws of God as per the Old Testament is curse-worthy.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
Grammatically "cursed is" speaks of the present rather than the future; viz: right now-- no delay, and no waiting period; just as those snake-bite victims were poisoned right then-- no delay and no waiting period.
Buen Camino
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So when the people realized the seriousness of their error, they begged Moses to intercede for them, and in response, God had Moses construct a replica of the deadly reptiles and hoist it up on a pole where everyone could see it. Whoever looked to the replica was cured; in point of fact, that replica was their only God-given means of curing snake bite. Nothing else would work: not charity, not sacrifices, not repentance, not scapulars, not Bible study, not Sunday school, not commandments, not church, not synagogue, not Sabbaths, not holy days of obligation, not yeshiva, not catechism, not holy water, not penance, not sacraments, not rosaries, not even their choice of religion-- in point of fact: nothing that most people typically associate with salvation would work; not even prayer and/or confession: only that replica.
Now fast-forward to the New Testament. The schoolmaster of Gal 3:24 leads his students to understand that their default afterlife destiny is the wrath of God; and the only way to avoid it is to rely upon Christ's crucifixion. Failure to look to his crucifixion as an adequate payment to ransom one's derrière from the wrath of God is an eo ipso guarantee of a horrific death penalty in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15: no exceptions. In point of fact, unbelievers are dead men walking even as we speak; viz: toast on the hoof.
†. John 3:18 . . He who believes in him is not condemned; but he who disbelieves is condemned already.
Why are disbelievers condemned already? Because non-compliance with the laws of God as per the Old Testament is curse-worthy.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
Grammatically "cursed is" speaks of the present rather than the future; viz: right now-- no delay, and no waiting period; just as those snake-bite victims were poisoned right then-- no delay and no waiting period.
Buen Camino
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TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
A strong biblical case can be made that there is no eternal burning hell that man needs to be saved from in the first place. What is clear from the NT scriptures is that because of Jesus, man has the hope of being saved from the wages of sin, death. From what I can tell from the texts, all will be raised by Jesus, some to age lasting life and others to a judgment which will result in a second death from which there is no resurrection. The requirement for life seems to be a faith in and submission to Jesus as God's Anointed king.
divinecloud7
Member
Faith without works is dead; as works are a part of a formation, formulae and process of faith. We walk as Christ did by example to show and teach others the truth and shedding light so they can see. Love is an encompassing absolute of the Christian faith. Let the word of GOD through his son lord JESUS show us the way and it is love as it does no wrong to it's neighbor's.....
Love Your Neighbor
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,†“You shall not murder,†“You shall not steal,†“You shall not bear false witness,â€<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> “You shall not covet,â€<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.â€<sup class="footnote" value='[c]'>[c]</sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Put on Christ
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
1 Corinthians 13:3-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">3 </sup>And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> but have not love, it profits me nothing.
<sup class="versenum">4 </sup>Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>For we know in part and we prophesy in part. <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
It is high time we wake from our slumber....the enemy fills us with delusion and deceives us to illicit destruction, separation and corrupt us.
"Let not the enemy in, let it not settle in our confines, let it not manipulate and twist our thinking; that thinking which should be on GOD our creator, the heavenly father and his glory and his son JESUS whom was obedient and loved us.
REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID IN HIS LAST MOMENTS...
"FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!!"
Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Love Your Neighbor
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,†“You shall not murder,†“You shall not steal,†“You shall not bear false witness,â€<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> “You shall not covet,â€<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.â€<sup class="footnote" value='[c]'>[c]</sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Put on Christ
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy.
1 Corinthians 13:3-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
<sup class="versenum">3 </sup>And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> but have not love, it profits me nothing.
<sup class="versenum">4 </sup>Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>For we know in part and we prophesy in part. <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
It is high time we wake from our slumber....the enemy fills us with delusion and deceives us to illicit destruction, separation and corrupt us.
"Let not the enemy in, let it not settle in our confines, let it not manipulate and twist our thinking; that thinking which should be on GOD our creator, the heavenly father and his glory and his son JESUS whom was obedient and loved us.
REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID IN HIS LAST MOMENTS...
"FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!!"
Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's my take. Belief and works go hand-in-hand with faith. How can one have faith in God if one does not believe in God? If one has faith in God and realizes what Jesus has done, how can one not follow up his/her faith with works? That is whay I believe James says faith without works is a dead faith. One can claim he has faith but if the same has not works, his lifestyle does not reflect the faith he claims to have. Can one do works without having faith? I believe so. There are a lot of well behaved, compassionate, helpful, caring, loving, and good people in this world that do not believe in God. This is why it is not our works that saves us. It is our faith in Jesus Christ.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
.
†. Rom 3:24-26 . . God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- He did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
The words "so as to be just" note an important element in the plan of salvation: specifically the satisfaction of justice. In other words: God doesn't arbitrarily forgive people out of the goodness of His heart and forget all about their violations of His laws and wishes. No; people have to answer for their conduct.
†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death (viz: capital punishment)
For that; there are some options. People can go to the gallows for their sins in one of two ways.
(A) in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15
(B) on the cross with Christ.
I highly recommend plan B because otherwise execution in liquefied flame becomes one's default destiny.
†. Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him
†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ
The term "old man" doesn't indicate one's past; no, it indicates one's natural-born self. In other words: Christianity is a lethal religion. It actually executes its followers. Oh, they're still walking around on their own two legs alright good as new; but on the books of heaven: they're terminated.
†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died
Buen Camino
/
†. Rom 3:24-26 . . God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forbearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- He did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
The words "so as to be just" note an important element in the plan of salvation: specifically the satisfaction of justice. In other words: God doesn't arbitrarily forgive people out of the goodness of His heart and forget all about their violations of His laws and wishes. No; people have to answer for their conduct.
†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death (viz: capital punishment)
For that; there are some options. People can go to the gallows for their sins in one of two ways.
(A) in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15
(B) on the cross with Christ.
I highly recommend plan B because otherwise execution in liquefied flame becomes one's default destiny.
†. Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him
†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ
The term "old man" doesn't indicate one's past; no, it indicates one's natural-born self. In other words: Christianity is a lethal religion. It actually executes its followers. Oh, they're still walking around on their own two legs alright good as new; but on the books of heaven: they're terminated.
†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died
Buen Camino
/
rockey_f_squirrell
Member
I believe, all we have to do is Confess that Jesus is Lord of our Life, and that we have given our soul to Him. I am on a library computer now, and with a time limit so I can't quite reference the exact scripture, (sometimes all we need is to personally know Jesus intimitely, and we dont need all the legalisms).
In the old testament, when Moses laid down the Law (within the more 'boring' parts of the book of the law, when describing about the ownership of slaves), there is an interesting law concerning slaves. Sometimes a slave can be sold to another owner or master. Sometimes with time limits then they go back to thier original place of purchase.
Anyway there is a provision that if a slave likes the master, he can proclaim to belong to his master forever, by stating "I love my master and want to remain his servant forever" And if the Master agrees, then a covenant can be made where the Slave belongs to the master forever, and the slave in good faith that the master will remain good to him for life.
By that, I believe laid an example how Jesus can take us away from Satan's 'ownership'. When we give our lives to Christ, Christ done purchased us from Satan by paying from His blood, (one drop was all it took to purchase all of humanity). That is what justifies that Jesus can take us away from satan's hold.
Now Paul says that we can sin and sin, and grace will abound, but also he said God forbid that it should be that way. There is also the need to love and serve him, or we get so far behind, we end up going back into satan's service, by our own habits. That is why it is so important to stay serving God, that is also where the Faith and works come in.
Again works are not necessary for salvation, but I believe, works, and staying faithful, is necessary to stay on the right track and stay saved.
In the old testament, when Moses laid down the Law (within the more 'boring' parts of the book of the law, when describing about the ownership of slaves), there is an interesting law concerning slaves. Sometimes a slave can be sold to another owner or master. Sometimes with time limits then they go back to thier original place of purchase.
Anyway there is a provision that if a slave likes the master, he can proclaim to belong to his master forever, by stating "I love my master and want to remain his servant forever" And if the Master agrees, then a covenant can be made where the Slave belongs to the master forever, and the slave in good faith that the master will remain good to him for life.
By that, I believe laid an example how Jesus can take us away from Satan's 'ownership'. When we give our lives to Christ, Christ done purchased us from Satan by paying from His blood, (one drop was all it took to purchase all of humanity). That is what justifies that Jesus can take us away from satan's hold.
Now Paul says that we can sin and sin, and grace will abound, but also he said God forbid that it should be that way. There is also the need to love and serve him, or we get so far behind, we end up going back into satan's service, by our own habits. That is why it is so important to stay serving God, that is also where the Faith and works come in.
Again works are not necessary for salvation, but I believe, works, and staying faithful, is necessary to stay on the right track and stay saved.
ravindran_eee
Member
I am posting something after a very long time! Nice to be back among some interesting discussions. There has been some good replies to this. This is what I believe! Faith in Christ as savior is all that takes for one to be saved. Works has nothing to with salvation.
Works is definitely an outward display of the sanctification process. But one important point to remember. It is the grace of God which enables to grow in Him and display the fruits. Not by our own works. It is the Holy Spirit which enables us walk righteous. So incorrect statement is, we are drawn closer to the Lord as we become more righteous and obedient. The correct statement is, the Holy Spirit enables us to walk righteous and be obedient to the Word of God. If God is doing everything, what is our responsibility? Are we yielding to the Holy Spirit? That is most important thing.