Bible Study How Can God Love Them And Be Angry with Them?

[jasonc]

jasonc
Now days there are some pretty strange teachings and doctrines out there in our world.

I've seen so many changes and beliefs come into our world that in most cases I don't even recognize what people call Christianity today.
Much different than when I became a believer many many decades ago.
I'm glad God called me when He did.
Todays Christian culture is a very strange unorthodox mix that makes no sense to me.
Very twisted without any unity or harmony in their beliefs.

Praise God I can love my faith so much, and I have as my faith, PERFECT harmony and unity for me.

I came here thinking I could help by sharing my faith, but I think I was mistaken.
Sad, but that's what God has said many times in scripture, and being on forums and being in several different churches, proves God's word to be true over and over.
"FEW" makes so much sense now.

the idea of God loving the sinner as you say wasn't taught at all until the gay rights movement .

universalism isn't new it started in America in the early 1800s .

god loved the sinner to say and do this

believe not you are damned already and described torture and never able to escape as His wrath .that's loving the sinner

 

[jasonc]

most modern problems of what you complain about existed then and long before .

if America was so Christ like

why was the Indian forced from his land and bounty on Indian childrem in my state during the 1840s to pre civil war and not just there

why did many churches endorse slavery and the kkk?
Methodists were the early abolinists and Quakers .Presbyterians divided on the issue as did the Methodists at the decade before the civil war .

Christian universalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

nothing new

most of what we debate was debated and settled by council by the ecf

 

[Fastfredy0]

@Fastfredy0
"Well, John 7:53 thru John 8:11 is not found in the oldest copies of scripture and is suspect.... but anyways"

How do you know?
You take the word of man, but you refuse to believe the word of God.
I find that to be very suspect.

Well, the Bible was written by men. So I do take the word of man, don't you?

I also believe that men were inspired by God to write what God wanted to be known. I believe God is the cause of men to write Scripture. I believe the Scripture as originally written is without error. I know that 10s of copies of the original documents were made, and 100s of copies of copies, and 10s of 100s of copies of copies of copies ... you get the idea. I have been told that when the thousands of copies from 100 to 400 A.D. are compared there are 400,000 textual variants .. most of which are minor like misspellings. Those variants include the addition of John 7:53 to John 8:11 in newer copies than in the oldest copies and thus are suspect. I trust that God has ensured His Scriptures have stayed in tact in regards to doctrine. So I trust God to use men to ensure I know His truth. So, to some extent the word of men and the Word of God are one in respect to scripture.

 

[Fastfredy0]

In John 4:1-26; Jesus tells the woman he knows of her 5 husbands and another.
She knows that is wrong and the Jewish Law says so.
She knew it was sin.
We know God hates sin.

I repeat, sin cannot exist without a host. The only hosts known to us are man and angels(demons). So when you say "God hates sin" this is short form for "God hates the sin which is an integral part of every living man". If sin is not part of man, then send all men to heaven and send their sin to hell.

Jesus loved them enough to stay with them and teach them and see them received him as the Messiah.
Now you know that's love.

Agreed. I pointed this out when I said love is a volitional to favor and I said I love my cat and I love sandwiches. I also pointed out that I wasn't talking about this small amount of love (favor). I was talking about love (favor) measured by one's willingness to die to favor another. I wouldn't die for my cat...I might die for my son.

Now you have love and hate in this passage.

Agreed, if this your definition of love (talking to a person) and understanding of hate (that it is for a yet to be explained reason that sin not part of a person). Thus, given my understanding of your standards I can see how you could say, "God loves the sinner but hates the sin".

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents
Thank you, Doug, but I wanted to hear a verse with the word "TRINITY", to prove a point.

I'm pretty sure the word never made it into Scripture. That doesn't mean the concept is not there, but the word is not there.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I'm pretty sure the word never made it into Scripture. That doesn't mean the concept is not there, but the word is not there.

Doug Brents
That was my point.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents
That was my point.

What? That the word is not there? Sure, anyone can do a word-search through a PDF of the Bible and see that it is not there.

That doesn't mean it is an invalid concept, or that Jehovah, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not all equally God, and separate from each other at the same time.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I repeat, sin cannot exist without a host. The only hosts known to us are man and angels(demons). So when you say "God hates sin" this is short form for "God hates the sin which is an integral part of every living man". If sin is not part of man, then send all men to heaven and send their sin to hell.



Agreed. I pointed this out when I said love is a volitional to favor and I said I love my cat and I love sandwiches. I also pointed out that I wasn't talking about this small amount of love (favor). I was talking about love (favor) measured by one's willingness to die to favor another. I wouldn't die for my cat...I might die for my son.


Agreed, if this your definition of love (talking to a person) and understanding of hate (that it is for a yet to be explained reason that sin not part of a person). Thus, given my understanding of your standards I can see how you could say, "God loves the sinner but hates the sin".

Romans 5
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Adam sinned and many died
But now we have the gift of God.


15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Sin always existed.
Even in heaven.

 

[AChristianStoic]

Seasoned by Grace the sad part is it would actually be better if you were being trolled.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Seasoned by Grace the sad part is it would actually be better if you were being trolled.

AChristianStoic
??? I don't understand your point???

 

[AChristianStoic]

AChristianStoic
??? I don't understand your point???

Option 1: Your point has been genuinely missed in an utterly painful and disappointing fashion.

Option 2: Your point has been intentionally missed by people who are trolling you.

At this point, Option 2 would be more comforting.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Romans 5
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Adam sinned and many died
But now we have the gift of God.


15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Sin always existed.
Even in heaven.

Satan sinned in heaven\
He caused a third of the angels to sin in heaven
They were all cast down out of heaven
But sin was not cast out with it
Habakkak 1:13; "your eyes are too pure to look upon sin".
sin is everywhere
sin is here and there
that doesn't mean we have to grab hold of it and use it

 

[Fastfredy0]

Satan sinned in heaven\
He caused a third of the angels to sin in heaven
They were all cast down out of heaven
But sin was not cast out with it
Habakkak 1:13; "your eyes are too pure to look upon sin".
sin is everywhere
sin is here and there
that doesn't mean we have to grab hold of it and use it

Apparently we have different definitions of what sin is. I'll try again.

Sin is a transgression of God's law. I assume you agree with that, otherwise you will have to give your definition and we can go from there. Now my question is:
1) Given Satan and all the sinful angels are not in heaven .... who are what is 'transgressing God's law' in heaven?


Aside: Sin is not a thing. It is the lack of adhering to God's law. It is unrighteousness in a person (or demon). I believe you think SIN is a thing of some sort. If that be true, this discussion isn't going anywhere are we are talking about the same thing (sin) but with different definitions.

Hmmmm.... I suppose, using your logic and extrapolation ... one can define LOVE as a thing the wonders around .... or laughter is a thing the can be found under rocks or in bird nests ... I wonder if I can step on SIN or kick LOVE or flick LAUGHTER. Maybe they hover above me......