P
Proximity
Guest
A simple question: According to the Catholic Faith, what must i do to be saved?
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William Putnam
Guest
mutzrein said:
Well, I'm still here! :angel:
But to answer Proximity's question, the answer may be found in John 3:5.
![pop[1].gif](http://forums.catholic-convert.com/images/smiles/pop[1].gif)
The clue is in Jesus' answer - "water and spirit." :B-fly:
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
Christus Vincit! Christus Regnat! Christus Imperat!
W
William Putnam
Guest
mutzrein said:
Only one thing - BAPTISM! :smt023
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Noah during the building of the ark,
in which a few persons,
eight in all,
were saved through water.
This prefigured baptism
which saves you now"
1 Peter 3:20-21
I
Imagican
Guest
And, might I add, that 'water baptism' does NOT a 'Christian' make. I will NOT say ANYTHING against water baptism, for I surely believe that it IS one way that we have of offering our commitment to God before 'other men', I believe that it is the Spiritual baptism that is ALL important. How to explain to one the HOW of it is a 'difficult' thing to do. All I do know is that once one IS baptised 'in The Spirit', they WILL KNOW IT.
And NEITHER of these account for ANYTHING unless performed out of GENUINE FAITH.
But I MUST admit, I am NOT a Catholic. Oooops. Guess I shouldn't have replied. Sorry, just pretend I didn't really post this, (he he he).
MEC
And NEITHER of these account for ANYTHING unless performed out of GENUINE FAITH.
But I MUST admit, I am NOT a Catholic. Oooops. Guess I shouldn't have replied. Sorry, just pretend I didn't really post this, (he he he).
MEC
waitinontheLamb
Member
So if baptism saves, Jesus died for nothing, right? We don't even need Him, just need to get wet!William Putnam said:
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William Putnam
Guest
waitinontheLamb said:
Well, let's see now. Christ instituted the Sacrament of Baptism. Therefore, if we did not have Christ, how would be then have baptism?
Christ needed to die on the cross that any of us could be saved in the first place, noting that he had to decend to hell (meaning, in the Apostles Creed, Sheol or where the Old Testament saints were sequestered until Christ could then bring them into those now opened gates of heaven!
But for us to be "saved" one must be baptized. That is the formula Christ established in Matthew 28:19. 8-)
Now read my "tagline" below and see what St. Peter had to say about baptism.
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Noah during the building of the ark,
in which a few persons,
eight in all,
were saved through water.
This prefigured baptism
which saves you now"
1 Peter 3:20-21
W
William Putnam
Guest
Imagican said:
Then explain how one who is not a Christian be saved, per my "tagline" below?
Why would anyone say anything against water baptism if it brings the spirit as well? Why would you doubt what Christ said what causes us to be "born again" other the with "water and spirit"?
Would you include the parents of their infant child, who will train the child to be a Christian, to prepare for the other Sacraments of the Church?
The early church fathers thought so:
http://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/infant.htm
(Notice that some of them claim to "serve Him" for their entire life, not from tteh time they were "of age." That means, from the time they were baptized as infants.
Why would I object to a non-Catholic replying here? :roll:
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Noah during the building of the ark,
in which a few persons,
eight in all,
were saved through water.
This prefigured baptism
which saves you now"
1 Peter 3:20-21
S
Solo
Guest
The sad part is that the Roman Catholics do not believe that one can be saved and know whether they are or not until after they actually arrive before God and He tells them that they are. God lives within every born again believer, and the Spirit confirms the truth of God's Word to our spirit. Water baptism does not save anyone. The Scripture in John 3 speaks of all mankind being born of the water which is of the flesh, and then those who believe in the work of Jesus Christ are born of the Spirit. Read John 3 and do not allow yourself to be lied to by those who believe that water baptism is what Jesus is speaking of. He is speaking of being born of the physical corrupt flesh, and being born also of the Spirit of God in order to enter the Kingdom of God.Proximity said:
I am saved because I was born again on October 18, 1983 when the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth of the Word of God and showed me my condemnation apart from the Salvation in Jesus Christ. I repented of my way turning to God's way, believed on the name of Jesus Christ, and followed him in being immersed in baptism on October 23, 1983. If I would have died on October 19, 20, 21, or 22, I would have gone to be with my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. The moment that the Holy Spirit came to me to give me life, I believed and was saved; signed, sealed, and delivered by God Himself. There are some Roman Catholics that are saved, but they were saved in spite of the teachings of the Roman Catholic institution.
Here is a link of an online book written by an ex-nun: http://www.unmaskingcatholicism.com/Contents.shtml
Here are some links to testimonies of those who were Roman Catholics when they were saved:
http://www.pro-gospel.org/testimonies.php
http://www.bereanbeacon.org/testimonies.htm
http://www.justforcatholics.org/testimonies.htm
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William Putnam
Guest
Solo said:
I hope you don't mind my correcting a misconception about knowing when one is "saved" and going to heaven or not. We don't say we are "saved" but are "being saved." At any given time, I know I am in the "state of grace" (my conscience tells me so, for if I were in sin, my consience would tell me forth right!) Also, it is not like we Catholics are "tembling in fear" that we will not be saved, but that we must be on guard and we do not fall from the path of "being saved" until we are judged by Almighty God.
If I were to die the next minute, I know I would be going to heaven! All I have to do is avoid serious sin! (A distinction of sin being serious and not so serious is another topic.) What I do have is a realization that I can be tempted and fall into sin, even serious sin! So being a Catholic Christian, I must continue to follow Christ, not sin again, and remain in Him. But if I do sin, I have the Sacrament of Confession to bring me back (Per John 20:22-23.)
Of course, this speaks against the idea that "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS)
Here is a link of an online book written by an ex-nun: http://www.unmaskingcatholicism.com/Contents.shtml[/quote]
Ah yes! Mary Ann Collins!
I would have to dig it up, it’s been a few years, but I have seen much on the question; is this a real person? I am suspicious that this person may be fictitious, just and Maria Monk of years past proved to be.
But I did do a google search and came up with this:
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=1799
I’ve seen them before, and so what? I know of many ex-Catholics who left for one reason or another, reasons I do not consider valid, but that is my humble opinion, of course.
Interestingly, I just got through watching the testimony of Alex Jones, a former Pentecostal pastor on EWTN, now a Catholic! WOW!
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
S
Solo
Guest
Bill,
You follow the pope and I will follow Jesus.
Good day, pardner,
Michael
You follow the pope and I will follow Jesus.
Good day, pardner,
Michael
R
Rick W
Guest
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
I've done the baptism with water primarily to acknowledge my surrender to Christ. The baptism of the Holy Ghost happened several months before that. That's the point He touched my heart and changed me forever. The experience between the two is obvious in that it was He who decided my baptism of the Holy Ghost and me who decided when and where I would be baptized with water.
I've done the baptism with water primarily to acknowledge my surrender to Christ. The baptism of the Holy Ghost happened several months before that. That's the point He touched my heart and changed me forever. The experience between the two is obvious in that it was He who decided my baptism of the Holy Ghost and me who decided when and where I would be baptized with water.
W
William Putnam
Guest
Solo said:
When I follow the pope, I follow the successor of Peter, who was appointed the chief of the apostles of the Church Jesus established! (Matthew 16:18-19)
If Jesus did all that, then to follow the Church and it's leaders, is to follow Jesus Christ. :smt038
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
W
William Putnam
Guest
PotLuck said:
All of that is fine, but it does not explain what Christ told Nicodemus as to how to be "born again."
Jesus gave the answer...
"water and spirit."
That seemed to be quite important to Christ as when we read Matthew 28:19, notice what He tells the apostles to do in "making disciples of all nations,"
Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Noah during the building of the ark,
in which a few persons,
eight in all,
were saved through water.
This prefigured baptism
which saves you now"
1 Peter 3:20-21
W
William Putnam
Guest
mutzrein said:
Yes.
Not the "water," as in the "water" of birth, a natural birth, since Nicodemus has already experienced that birth. He stands before Christ already born of a woman. Therefore, it would be redundant for Jesus to mention "water" if it were the waters of a natural birth. Therefore, it must be the waters of baptism, that when one is baptized in water, the spirit also comes.
If you were to ask me, "What must I do to get educated" and if I were to reply, you must be born of water (be born of a woman) and get educated," you can see the obvious redundancy in that statement.
Also, Nicodemus is asking about being "born again." The clue word here is "again." To have that happen, one must have applied, water and spirit. If Nicodemus was born of a "first water" of a natural birth, then to be "born again" is to have applied a "second water" which must also bring the Spirit.
This is then obviously the Sacrament of baptism... 8-)
I hope that helps...
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Noah during the building of the ark,
in which a few persons,
eight in all,
were saved through water.
This prefigured baptism
which saves you now"
1 Peter 3:20-21
G
Guest
Guest
William - why are you keeping off the rest of the verse in your tagline? Also, which version are you using?
The NASB reads: "who once were disobedient, when the patience of GOd kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now save you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh - through the ressurection of Jesus Christ.
I would contend, that taken in the context of the whole verse, it is not baptism that saves - but the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Look at it this way: When you have a headache, chances are someone will say to you "Take some asprin for your headache." They are not saying "Take some aspring to "get" a headache", but rather, because you already HAVE a headache you should take some aspring.
In the same way - we are instructed to be baptized not "for" salvation, but because we already have been saved through the resurrection of Jesus Christ - therefore, when one becomes reborn through the spirit, one partakes of Baptism as an outward sign of the inner regeneration of the Spirit.
The NASB reads: "who once were disobedient, when the patience of GOd kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now save you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh - through the ressurection of Jesus Christ.
I would contend, that taken in the context of the whole verse, it is not baptism that saves - but the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Look at it this way: When you have a headache, chances are someone will say to you "Take some asprin for your headache." They are not saying "Take some aspring to "get" a headache", but rather, because you already HAVE a headache you should take some aspring.
In the same way - we are instructed to be baptized not "for" salvation, but because we already have been saved through the resurrection of Jesus Christ - therefore, when one becomes reborn through the spirit, one partakes of Baptism as an outward sign of the inner regeneration of the Spirit.
R
Rick W
Guest
The angels, including Satan, and the rest of the creatures of the heavenly realm cannot inherent God's kingdom. Therefore "born of woman" is needed to make that distinction.
W
William Putnam
Guest
aLoneVoice said:
1. I use the Catholic New Amereican Bible (NAB.)
2. Your expanded quote adds nothing to what Peter is saying, He speaks of those few who were saved, Noah and company, through water, which he sees as a forshadowing in those ancient times of the times to come under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, "water," the word reminds Peter of how we are saved, "as through water" as in baptism, "which now saves you."
But Peter says nothing about Jesus, but of baptism! And of course, as I have already explained, Jesus esablishes that as a Sacrament, that to enter into his salvation plan, we must be baptized! What does Peter say, immediately after Pentecost, what they (the questioning crowd) must do. He replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you. , in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins..."(Acts 2:38 NAB)
I am afraid I do not follow you here, thus I totally disagree. Peter speaks of "baptism, which now saves you" (To hark back to your NASB quote.)
It cannot be any clearer then that, dispite your attempt to include context to what I have presented to you. In fact, if you continue in the text with verse 21, "It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
That nails it! :angel:
No, it is not a ordinary washing, is it, but a special ritural that saves!
It is called BAPTISM! :smt059
God bless,
PAX
Bill+†+
"Noah during the building of the ark,
in which a few persons,
eight in all,
were saved through water.
This prefigured baptism
which saves you now"
1 Peter 3:20-21