How do I deal with pro choice people?

[evenifigoalone]

If an unknown girl in a state a thousand miles away from you makes the choice to have an abortion, or kill her baby as you would say, then tell me: By what authority do you claim judgement over this murder? Is this girl near kin to you that you should determine her blood vengeance?

You could apply the same logic to a serial killer murdering someone you've never met and have no ties to. Just because it's not personally your problem doesn't make it morally neutral.

For the record while I am very prolife I am sympathetic to prochoicers and have found that many of them also want to reduce abortion and see abortion as a terrible thing. Those individuals just disagree on what measures are best to reduce it.

 

[Edward]

If an unknown girl in a state a thousand miles away from you makes the choice to have an abortion, or kill her baby as you would say, then tell me: By what authority do you claim judgement over this murder? Is this girl near kin to you that you should determine her blood vengeance?

Why are you trolling that lady? I thought you wave the flag of Christianity in your avatar? So don't you know what your own Bible says? It is the Lord's judgment, not hers. She said she cannot judge those people but only speak truth as she knows it. So now you will sit in judgment of her?!

No offense but, you're starting to sound like a feminist. You sound a wee bit angry. Red faced yet? Why? Because she believes that babies should not be thrown in the fire? That's sickening man.

Souls (people) are the most valuable thing on earth. Don't you know this?

 

[evenifigoalone]

All that said, according to a video I watched recently (I can link it here if requested), the rate of abortions is actually lower rn than it was before RvW.
RvW wasn't the start of abortions in America.... In fact, it wasn't even the start of legal abortion in America.

 

[ezrider]

You could apply the same logic to a serial killer murdering someone you've never met and have no ties to. Just because it's not personally your problem doesn't make it morally neutral.

The same logic is already applied within our laws. You must have standing to bring charges. If you have no standing in the case, then what does your moral position have to do with it?

 

[Mosheli]

The problem with the whole prochoice vs prolife arguments is that both sides are really not getting to addressing the cultural/social/political/religious root cause(s). The "choice" starts long before the choice of whether to have an abortion or not. People want to have promiscuity and "intimacy" without responsibility and consequences (its surely a myth that most abortion is only for incest and rape and abnormalities and endangered life, and even rape is somewhat due to our promiscuous etc "culture"). This is exactly similar to people forcing fluoridation because people want to eat food heaped with sugar. We need to lessen the negatives like the promiscuity/eroticism and materialism in our "culture", and the socio-ecoomic burdens on families, and to re-encourage the positives like fitness and love and commitment and family, and that there are a number of steps/stops/spots in relationships. Though of course from a christian point of view the ultimate root issue is human fallen/sinful nature. Besides which people have other options such as contraceptives, adoption, etc. We should always treat others as Yeshua/Jesus would say/do, and do unto others as would have done to you.

 

[evenifigoalone]

The same logic is already applied within our laws. You must have standing to bring charges. If you have no standing in the case, then what does your moral position have to do with it?

Has nothing to do with wanting to make most cases of abortion illegal just in general. Murder of already born citizens is already illegal, as it should be.
So far as criminalization, I'm a bit less keen on that. Eventually, sure, but I think there's enough nuance and a case to be made for waiting until abortion is more generally understood as an evil before we start prosecuting people over it.

 

[humble soul]

People want to have promiscuity and "intimacy" without responsibility and consequences

There is some truth in what you say. But it's not the whole story.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Making abortion illegal on its own won't eradicate it. Actually, countries that have outlawed abortions tend to see more of them happening.
I'm for making it illegal, but there's other steps we need to take in addition to that. Such as supporting mothers in need, bringing alternatives, making adoption more affordable, etc.

 

[Truthfrees]

My experience has taught me that trying to discuss with them is like talking to a wall. Is there anything I could try telling them? Or is it not worth bothering?

some pro-life groups give free ultrasounds so mothers can see the baby is a real baby - they find this causes many to change their mind about killing their baby

when i discuss abortion i calmly quietly say i totally agree everyone has the right to make choices for their own body - the problem is the abortionist isn't ripping the arms and legs and head off of the woman - he's tearing the baby apart limb from limb killing it by excruciating dismemberment - the baby should have a right to it's own body and life - people usually don't have anything to say to this

i also find it strange that rather than giving the baby a lethal injection in the womb or some other type of painless death they tear it apart while it is still alive - what's up with that?

 

[Corn Pop]

More fishing less politics.

 

[LuciusClay]

It's so easy to demonise pro choice. I honestly don't think it is always such a definitive issue. In my opinion, pro choice can be (not always), the more compassionate types. Whereas pro life often use this issue to condemn and belittle liberal thinkers or ones who have genuine doubts anyway.

Perhaps one needs to stop defending poor choices and acknowledge what the bible makes clear about the sanctity of life. Its easy to demonize something that is morally bereft to begin with..because its wrong. This of course doesnt excuse bad behavior from either side, and theres plenty of it. I guess Ive had the opposite experience with both camps, as the PC crowd seem to almost want someone to disagree with them to have reason to spark an argument.

Obviously not everyone is christian and therefore may not accept those concepts.

Either way,I still dont understand anyone,particularly a christian can justify this practice. Thats not a jab at anyone who defends it,just a genuine curiosity. If you would,Id like to hear your take on it.

The common attempt to defend it inevitably uses a worst case scenario to excuse the practice at large,when in reality these worst case scenarios used are the vast minority of the procedures. It seems as if the majority of abortions come about as a result of bad decisions to begin with.

People have little difficulty consenting to sex, even while knowing before hand what the end result could be. Granted,mankind is known for historically ignoring the obvious and pretending everything will be ok. Yet,they continue and when the consequences catch up to them its the child that has to pay the piper in a very brutal and painful operation (for the child) that can cause long term health problems for the mother anyway..physically and psychologically. So basically it amounts to a large number of children being killed due to irresponsibility of the would be parents. This is why youll never convince many people to accept abortion.

 

[humble soul]

Perhaps one needs to stop defending poor choices and acknowledge what the bible makes clear about the sanctity of life

Perhaps one needs to stop using the Bible to slam dunk anyone Biblical Christians disagree with.

 

[LuciusClay]

Perhaps one needs to stop using the Bible to slam dunk anyone Biblical Christians disagree with.

Perhaps you need to stop and think. For one,I never used the bible to "slam dunk" anyone. Its a baseless comment. Interesting statement indeed from one who claims to be a christian,demonizing those who reference the bible as the basis for morality.

Further,this victim complex seems all too common with those confronted with biblical morality. Its never fun to have someone criticize an aspect of your life or beliefs, but its also how we learn. Ill reserve further comment,though as Im sure Ill only elicit further childish remarks. Good day "humble" soul.

 

[Corn Pop]

Just because people have differnt views is no excuse to be cruel to others. I believe in choice and i have my own beliefs on what i believe is right and wrong.

If people disagree with my views then lets have open honest discussion about it and try change my mind.

 

[LuciusClay]

Just because people have differnt views is no excuse to be cruel to others. I believe in choice and i have my own beliefs on what i believe is right and wrong. If people disagree with my views then lets have open honest discussion about it and change my mind.

Some peope in this world are nutcases, they flip out when people dont submit and completely agree with or when you critise there views and beliefs.

Actually Id like to take you up on that Dan. If you dont mind, I would like to hear your take on the matter. Ive mainly heard the discussion from non christians who dont view it as problematic for obvious reasons. One thing I havent been able to do is talk with a christian whos PC and is able to reconcile the two sides.

Edit: Please dont view this as a debate. Im not out to change your mind or champion the cause so to speak. Im just cynical/realistic enough to know that this usually doesnt happen much. Im just curious as to the how and why you reached that point.

 

[Edward]

All that said, according to a video I watched recently (I can link it here if requested), the rate of abortions is actually lower rn than it was before RvW.
RvW wasn't the start of abortions in America.... In fact, it wasn't even the start of legal abortion in America.

I don't believe that video at all. The rate of abortions is no way lower now than it was without RvW. That's just ridiculous to even try to believe. Must be a propaganda video, lol.

 

[humble soul]

Good day "humble" soul.

Is it?

 

[LuciusClay]

Well basically i believe that any human who intentionally physically harms and violates another human life is wrong.

Gotcha, I think maybe I misunderstood you. When you stated you believed in choice, I took that to mean you were christian and also in support of abortion and such. Im guessing maybe you meant freedom of choice in general. I can fully agree with what you say here. Thanks.

 

[Corn Pop]

Gotcha, I think maybe I misunderstood you. When you stated you believed in choice, I took that to mean you were christian and also in support of abortion and such. Im guessing maybe you meant freedom of choice in general. I can fully agree with what you say here. Thanks.

Something like that.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I don't believe that video at all. The rate of abortions is no way lower now than it was without RvW. That's just ridiculous to even try to believe. Must be a propaganda video, lol.

Said video is endorsed by Phil Vischer (who is responsible for Veggie Tales) and is very much prolife and in favor of outlawing abortion, but sure. It's "propaganda".