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How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't come?

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It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus. The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to clarify the Jewish position. The more data that's available, the better-informed choices people can make about their spiritual path.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.

2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.

3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.

4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:

5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology

6) Jews and Gentiles

7) Bringing the Messiah

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1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright, and no concept of a second coming exists.

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2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH

A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!

C. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

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3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by gods.

B. CRUCIFIXION

The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."

C. SUFFERING SERVANT

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

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4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION

Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one person.

Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).

Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):






The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.


What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)






Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.



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5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY

The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic Church, the largest Christian denomination.

A. GOD AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS GOD?

Roman Catholics believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

C. INTERMEDIARY FOR PRAYER?

The Catholic belief is that prayer must be directed through an intermediary -- i.e. confessing one's sins to a priest. Jesus himself is an intermediary, as Jesus said: "No man cometh unto the Father but by me."

In Judaism, prayer is a totally private matter, between each individual and God. As the Bible says: "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME," meaning that it is forbidden to set up a mediator between God and man. (see Maimonides - Laws of Idolatry ch. 1)

D. INVOLVEMENT IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD

Catholic doctrine often treats the physical world as an evil to be avoided. Mary, the holiest woman, is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. And monasteries are in remote, secluded locations.

By contrast, Judaism believes that God created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform.

The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World to Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it.

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6) JEWS AND GENTILES

Judaism does not demand that everyone convert to the religion. The Torah of Moses is a truth for all humanity, whether Jewish or not. King Solomon asked God to heed the prayers of non-Jews who come to the Holy Temple (Kings I 8:41-43). The prophet Isaiah refers to the Temple as a "House for all nations."

The Temple service during Sukkot featured 70 bull offerings, corresponding to the 70 nations of the world. The Talmud says that if the Romans would have realized how much benefit they were getting from the Temple, they'd never have destroyed it.

Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven.

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7) BRINGING THE MESSIAH

Maimonides states that the popularity of Christianity (and Islam) is part of God's plan to spread the ideals of Torah throughout the world. This moves society closer to a perfected state of morality and toward a greater understanding of God. All this is in preparation for the Messianic age.

Indeed, the world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. War and pollution threaten our planet; ego and confusion erode family life. To the extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first questions a Jew is asked on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the arrival of the Messiah?"

How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best we can), and to encourage others to do so as well.

Despite the gloom, the world does seem headed toward redemption. One apparent sign is that the Jewish people have returned to the Land of Israel and made it bloom again. Additionally, a major movement is afoot of young Jews returning to Torah tradition.

The Messiah can come at any moment, and it all depends on our actions. God is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come today -- if you hearken to His voice."
 
Re: How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't com

DavidDavid said:
Jews have never actively sought converts to Judaism because the Torah prescribes a righteous path for gentiles to follow, known as the "Seven Laws of Noah." Maimonides explains that any human being who faithfully observes these basic moral laws earns a proper place in heaven.

Interesting. It seems that Judaism is superior to Christianity in this regard. (As some would see it.)
 
Re: How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't com

DavidDavid said:
B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David!


It seems they shot themselves in the foot with that one!

:D
 
Re: How do we respond to jews who believe messiah hasn't com

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (NIV)

(3) For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, (4) that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures



I'm interested, where in the Old Testament does it predict that a "third day" resurrection will happen?
 
Jews that have rejected Jesus as Messiah are not any different today then they were in the first century:

18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:18-47

http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html#header_1
http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html#header_1
http://www.christiananswers.net/diction ... ecies.html
http://biblia.com/jesusbible/psalms-prophecies.htm
http://biblia.com/jesusbible/isaiah2.htm
http://www.shalach.org/PropheciesTable/ ... eslst1.htm
http://www.messiahrevealed.org/index.html
http://www.shalach.org/PropheciesTable/prophecies.htm
 
Solo said:
Jews that have rejected Jesus as Messiah are not any different today then they were in the first century


Is that kind of comment going to encourage Jews to become Christian?
 
DivineNames said:
Solo said:
Jews that have rejected Jesus as Messiah are not any different today then they were in the first century


Is that kind of comment going to encourage Jews to become Christian?
The Jews today reject Jesus as Messiah for the same reasons that the Jews in the first century rejected him. The scripture that I posted gives Jesus' statements to the Jews that rejected him as Messiah. We will talk about the Gentiles that reject Jesus as savior and redeemer at another time.

The words of Jesus are pretty powerful in that he describes that those who reject him refuse to come to him that they may have eternal life. He tells them to search the scriptures for they testify of him.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:39-47
 
... and it seems many Jews did agree. The first disciples were all Jews. 8 of the 9 authors of the New Testament were all ex-Jews, the exception being Luke.

The first Christians were all ex-Jews.

Read Acts 2:1-47. Who were the first 3000 people converted? They were Jews.

Luke said:
Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5
Luke said:
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. Acts 2:41
Luke said:
Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:46-47

Are you saved yet DivineNames?

:)
 
The more I learn about Judaism, the more sense it makes to me!

I always thought the Jews were more exclusivistic than the Evangelicals!

Boy was I wrong!

I like a few key points about the Jewish faith

It believes man is basically Good
I believes that God can be experienced directly
It stresses the value of action over prescribing to creeds
It does not see the need to "convert" everyone around them
There is a rich history and culture involved

The most glaring contradiction in my mind as far as WHY they reject Jesus is the line of David problem......

If Jesus was born of a virgin...... and Joseph never took care of the "business" himself...... Jesus couldnt possibly be in the blood - line!

That problem is a real hard one to reconcile although many try to through strange methods.......
 
If you are a Christian, Judaism should make sense to you. Jesus was a Jew. :)

As for the so-called "line of David problem", again it is only your own basic misunderstanding that is the problem!

I have explained and given this link to you before but you seem to have forgotten already!

So here it is again:

What Soma is arguing is:

(1) The genealogies show that JOSEPH is the descendent of David;
(2) Jesus, by virtue of the virgin birth, is NOT a gene-carrying descendent of Joseph;
(3) Therefore, Jesus is NOT a gene-carrying descendent of David.

However, notice the main assumption in this argument:

Only gene-carrying descendants are considered as descendants.

This assumption is demonstrably false. Let's look at the situation and background closely.

(a) Matthew and Luke present different genealogies of Jesus--one through David's son Solomon (the royal line) and the other through David's son Nathan (the non-royal line). The royal line is traced in Matthew; the "natural" line in Luke. Matthew's genealogy goes only back to Abraham (to show the Jewish character of the King); Luke's goes back to Adam (to show the universal aspect of the Savior). Matthew's emphasizes Jesus' royalty; Luke, his humanity.

(b) It is generally accepted (but not unanimously) that the genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph's family, and the one in Luke applies to Mary's line. (The historical evidence is fairly strong that both Mary and Joseph were of the house of David.)

(c) Both genealogies are 'aware' of the virgin birth: Luke adds the phrase "He was the son, SO IT WAS THOUGHT, of Joseph" (3:23) and Matthew switches verbs from "X begat Y" to "Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom (feminine pronoun) was born Jesus".

(d) So, how does Joseph 'step into' Mary's lineage? How does he 'pick up' her legal heritage? Probably through the law of levirate marriage.
The Jewish folk had numerous provisions for cases of inheritance-transfer in extreme cases. One of the more frequent situations that had to be covered (in a land-based, clan-ownership system) was that of childless marriages, or in some cases, of son-less marriages.
One of the more concise statements of how this would apply here, is by J. Stafford Wright in Dict. of New Test. Theol., III. 662:

"Mary's father (Heli?) had two daughters, May and the unnamed wife of Zebedee (John 19:25; Matt 27:56). If there were no sons, Joseph would become son of Heli on his marriage, to preserve the family name and inheritance (cf. Num 27:1-11; 36:1-12, esp. v. 8, which accounts for Mary marrying a man of the family of David.)"
[The main passages in the OT that refer to these various laws are Num 7:1-11; Num 36:1-12; Lev 25:25; Dt 25:5-10. These practices were widespread in the Ancient Near East, and a good discussion of the details in Israel and differences from the ANE can be found in Roland de Vaux, Ancient Israel: Vol 1--Social Institutions. Two famous cases, for good or ill, of these practices are in the story of Ruth (Book of Ruth) and in the story of Tamar (Gen 38:6ff).]
What this 'nets out to' is that Joseph 'married into' Mary's gene-pool...and hence, the virgin birth doesn't stop the lineage "transfer".

In other words, the the physical-gene did NOT come FROM JOSEPH was IRRELEVANT in this case. Legal standing was related to EITHER 'genes' OR to 'marriage'. (Although it should be pointed out that levirate arrangements like this required close kinship already, and hence, quite a number of overlapping genes.).
So, strictly speaking, Jesus got his genes from Mary and his legal standing (in the royal heir line) from Joseph (thru the marriage of M+J).

(e) Now, as a practical matter, I consider the gene-issue to be important, simply because there were NUMEROUS other indications that the Messiah WOULD BE from the 'stock of Jesse' etc--images and phrases that DO put more emphasis on the blood-line that does simply 'legal lineage'--but I am persuaded that these requirements were adequately satisfied from Mary's side.

Source: Glenn Miller -here-

:)
 
Soma-Sight said:
The more I learn about Judaism, the more sense it makes to me!

I always thought the Jews were more exclusivistic than the Evangelicals!

Boy was I wrong!

I like a few key points about the Jewish faith

It believes man is basically Good
I believes that God can be experienced directly
It stresses the value of action over prescribing to creeds
It does not see the need to "convert" everyone around them
There is a rich history and culture involved

The most glaring contradiction in my mind as far as WHY they reject Jesus is the line of David problem......

If Jesus was born of a virgin...... and Joseph never took care of the "business" himself...... Jesus couldnt possibly be in the blood - line!

That problem is a real hard one to reconcile although many try to through strange methods.......
Well, according to the many posts you have come up with recently, the only thing you don't like is Christianity. You have decided that catholicism, hinduism, and now Judaism is right. Might want to take a good look at the only One who can do anything for you.
 
Soma-Sight said:
The more I learn about Judaism, the more sense it makes to me!

I always thought the Jews were more exclusivistic than the Evangelicals!

Boy was I wrong!

I like a few key points about the Jewish faith

It believes man is basically Good
I believes that God can be experienced directly
It stresses the value of action over prescribing to creeds
It does not see the need to "convert" everyone around them
There is a rich history and culture involved

LOL... straight out of "The complete idiot's guide to understanding Judaism" by Rabbi Benjamin Blech.

Soma claims "It (Judaism) stresses the value of action over prescribing to creeds" (refer to page 48 of the above book in the section titled "Deed over Creed").

What Soma has not yet studied or learnt is further on in the book. Go to page 117 and read about the "Thirteen Principles" by Maimonides. By the way, Maimonides is Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon, one of Judaism's greatest medieval scholars. He is commonly called "Rambam."

So what is the point of my post? Well, to show again that Soma does little real in-depth research. Judaism DOES have creed. The Thirteen Principles prove that. The 13 Principles is a concise summary of the basic belief of Judaism. The list was eventually turned into one of the best-known prayers in the synagogue, the Yigdal.

It is even claimed "No book on Judaism is complete without the inclusion of the Thirteen Principles." (refer page 117 of "The complete idiot's guide to understanding Judaism" by Rabbi Benjamin Blech)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now do you want to know the shortest and oldest Christian creed? It is in the Bible and it is rich in theological understanding and significance. It is:

Jesus is Lord

Romans 10:9-10 If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,†and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,†and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,†except by the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:4-5 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

Colossians 2:6-7 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

:)
 
Want to find out more?

Try this (all 3 for only $51)

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus by Michael L. Brown, a Messianic Jew, is a must-have resource set, the first compendium of its kind for decades.

sp079_s.jpg


http://store.jewsforjesus.org/ppp/produ ... prodid=429

Volume One addresses thirty-five different objections comprehensively with an engaging, readable style.

Volume Two provides real answers to twenty-eight theological objections many Jewish people raise regarding Christianity. He treats these objections seriously and fairly, building answers from some surprising rabbinic teachings as well as from the Hebrew Scriptures. As Brown's answers progressively demonstrate, belief in Y'shua (Jesus) is not something alien to Jewish tradition but is profoundly rooted in ancient Jewish tradition, fulfilling its purpose.

Volume Three looks specifically at questions raised about messianic prophecies in Isaiah, Daniel, Psalms, Haggai, and Zechariah. It's an invaluable resource for seekers and for anyone wanting to point students of the Torah to Jesus.

:)

Some links:
http://www.messianicbible.com/about.asp
http://store.jewsforjesus.org/ppp/produ ... prodid=429
 
Well, to show again that Soma does little real in-depth research.

Your hurting my feelings Gary!

But of course you realize that there are also hundreds of books written by Jews disproving the links for the Answering series you present!

Soma claims "It (Judaism) stresses the value of action over prescribing to creeds" (refer to page 48 of the above book in the section titled "Deed over Creed").

And yes Jews are mor deed over creed! I have read quite a few writers that believe this! That is why Jews believe people of other faiths have a shot at Heaven!

Well, according to the many posts you have come up with recently, the only thing you don't like is Christianity.

Hey I love Christianity! I just have some questions about the history of the Church and how there were many movements predating the "Bible" that existed in the 1st and 2nd century! You will find Gnostics, charimatics, followers of Iraneus, followers of Origen, etc.

All claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit and there were some very different doctrines milling about!

There was no ONE way to look at the life of Jesus in the early Church!

Some taught reincarnation while others rejected the Gospel of John as heretical!

It is all so interesting!
 
Soma said:
And yes Jews are more deed over creed! I have read quite a few writers that believe this!

... and who would those be?

Have you read any Maimonides?

:-?
 
Gary,

this computer I am on sucks today and doesnt allow pasting but I will type in the info for link for you by hand.....

Here is one author by the name of Aaron Small

The title of the article is "Deed over Creed"

Go to google and type in "Deed over Creed"

The website is the Monmouth Reform Temple

Actually Gary, if you go to google and just scroll down after typing in "Deed over Creed" you will find tens of authors that agree with this!!!

One site says something like....

Judaism has historically put more emphasis on Deed (miswa) than Creed........
 
Your post again shows me that you have not really studied Judaism. I notice that you have avoided my comments and questions about Maimonides.

I wonder why. IF you have studied Judaism, it would have been impossible not to have read about him and the 13 principles!

Judaism DOES have creed. The Thirteen Principles prove that. The 13 Principles is a concise summary of the basic belief of Judaism. The list was eventually turned into one of the best-known prayers in the synagogue, the Yigdal. Learn about that here:
http://headcoverings-by-devorah.com/Yigdal2.html

It is even claimed "No book on Judaism is complete without the inclusion of the Thirteen Principles." (refer page 117 of "The complete idiot's guide to understanding Judaism" by Rabbi Benjamin Blech)

Judaism CLAIMS "deed over creed" but anyone who has visited a synagogue or been around a religious Jewish family for any length of time will testify that it is not true at all. Ritual and creed dominate their lives as it did in Jesus' time as well.

:)
 
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