How does everyone see this?

[Free]

Right. As I said, Trump is wanting to *incentivize* industries, factories, and businesses to set up shop here in the US. That way, they will not simply *choose* to set up overseas. Trump does not want to limit the ability of business to do their business *in* other countries--he does this himself with the Trump Empire. But he doesn't want to contribute to the desire of businesses to move out of America to benefit from cheap or slave labor in oppressed or poor countries.

I agree and Trump has agreed to be willing to "help" disadvantaged countries. That's already on the record. I do think, however, the political ideology is important because Trump's plan has become the Republican plan, while the Democrat Party, if you listen to them, are throwing up roadblocks constantly.

In case you've missed it, Trump has been harassed, legally and politically, for at least 8 years. But his plan is currently what the people have voted for, and I think it will in the end benefit the consumer, if given the chance. I make this political only because of the mountain of propaganda designed to destroy Trump's effort. Not noble of the Democrats at all!

It will temporarily benefit those who get jobs, but it will never benefit the consumer. If you watched the video I provided, and you should, you would see how at least some trade deficits happen. Pulling production back to the U.S. will increase the cost of goods. It's literally the materialism of the West, combined with the desire to pay less, that is driving companies to go to other countries for cheap labour. The cheaper cost of production means we pay less, so we buy more from those countries. It is that that creates a trade imbalance.

What will happen is that either those companies that come back will go out of business, or some may manage to stay afloat if those with money continue to buy from them. But, there will be many who cannot afford it, so what are they to do?

Let me just add this. I listened to a recording of Senator Blumenthal questioning Homeland Security Driector Kristi Noem on her current opperations--I did that this morning. Blumenthal was disgustingly insulting, constantly interrupting Noem's replies and calling her, flatly, a liar. This kind of government "cooperation" needs to be cleaned up or thrown out completely.

That is literally Trump's MO. Did any of this happen prior to Trump, was name calling the opposition really much of a thing? Since his first presidential campaign, this is all Trump does to any who stand in his way or otherwise oppose him. He literally just called the Dems "world class losers" for him hypocritically accepting the gift of an airplane. He had previously blasted Dems for accepting gifts and said they should return them.

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It's not honest to point this out as disgusting since it's coming from Dems while Trump seems to have started it and continues doing it. But, that is the one thing I have noticed in both Canadian and U.S. politics in the last several years--most citizens, and politicians, are unwilling to admit the wrongdoing "their" party does, even when it's the same or worse that the other party is doing.

 

[RandyK]

It will temporarily benefit those who get jobs, but it will never benefit the consumer. If you watched the video I provided, and you should, you would see how at least some trade deficits happen. Pulling production back to the U.S. will increase the cost of goods. It's literally the materialism of the West, combined with the desire to pay less, that is driving companies to go to other countries for cheap labour. The cheaper cost of production means we pay less, so we buy more from those countries. It is that that creates a trade imbalance.

What will happen is that either those companies that come back will go out of business, or some may manage to stay afloat if those with money continue to buy from them. But, there will be many who cannot afford it, so what are they to do?


That is literally Trump's MO. Did any of this happen prior to Trump, was name calling the opposition really much of a thing? Since his first presidential campaign, this is all Trump does to any who stand in his way or otherwise oppose him. He literally just called the Dems "world class losers" for him hypocritically accepting the gift of an airplane. He had previously blasted Dems for accepting gifts and said they should return them.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

It's not honest to point this out as disgusting since it's coming from Dems while Trump seems to have started it and continues doing it. But, that is the one thing I have noticed in both Canadian and U.S. politics in the last several years--most citizens, and politicians, are unwilling to admit the wrongdoing "their" party does, even when it's the same or worse that the other party is doing.

Okay, I just started to watch a video you provided on Tariffs and Trump, and the guy went on for about 5 to 10 minutes talking about what he was going to talk about. I don't have time for that.

Let me just say my wife is British, and I've been to England, and I know the flow there is likely against Trump, just as it is in Europe. Actually, I think Europe has always been jealous of America, even though they relied heavily upon us in WW2 and following.

That being said, I think many experts would agree with you that tariffs cause the consumer grief. But I'm just putting a little faith in what Trump is *trying* to do--I'm not a Trump hater.

Those who call him names seem to have an agenda, and don't care to be fair regardless. When Biden came into office he immediately opposed everything Trump had done, even if it meant trying to remove the walls keeping gangmembers, rapists, and drug dealers out of our country, let alone the millions of illegals who want to bankrupt our country.

So, yes the tariffs mean a higher cost for the consumer. But what you're not mentioning is that this is a tactic, and not a permanent plan. The plan is to equalize, as much as possible, knowing that it has to be done, fairly, from country to country.

If it is done in demonstrable, exaggerated fashion, it is only because it's the "Art of the Deal," or negotiating tactics. The idea in poker is to act like you have a royal flush when you only have a pair of deuces.

Anyway, the consumer pain idea seems more like a tactic from the Left who want to cause Trump to lose in any and all things he does. Why not give it some time, since he was elected president and enjoyed great success in his 1st term, aside from the Democratic attacks which were continuous and wore away the public sentiment towards Trump?

What causes the costs to consumers to go down? For one, an increase in pay can enable the costs to go down, and that happens when there are lots of jobs and lots of industries here in the US. This is not actually a decrease in costs, but an inflationary adjustment, mitigating what used to be painful, and making it less painful.

When there comes to be a greater need for workers, and to keep them you have to pay more. This could enable workers to have more money, making higher prices less painful.

Do businesses go bankrupt here in the US? Yes they do, particularly when they have bad business models, a bad product, a poor service, or pay people too much. But if the industry is important for national security, I should think the government can somehow aid that business in that kind of cause? If people are demanding too much pay, then they'll just have to lose their jobs, which for many people is not on the table.

Another thing that causes costs to consumers to go down are when there are so many products that there aren't enough people to buy them. Then the problem is that maybe we're aborting too many people or not having enough children? That is another problem entirely, and not related to tariffs. When there are lots of jobs, and too few people, you either bring the price down or you go to Mexico for your consumer via migration.

Another thing that causes costs to go down is related to the increase in wages--inflation. When the government spends to much, and then the US has to borrow more money, the Treasury has to make more money which, when inundating the country, causes *everything* to go up.

When that happens, a higher cost is mitigated. The problem, again, is not tariffs but government spending, which Trump is guilty of, but the Democrats even more so.

Discretionary, foolish spending may actually be helped by higher prices. Do people really need to be spending their children's inheritances by travelling the world? Do people really need more than 2 cars, a boat, an RV or maybe even an airplane? I don't think so...at least not most people.

Do young adults all need a master's degree in general education, social work, or technology? Again, the answer is no. Higher prices for all these things can keep foolish spending in check. At any rate, what is a college degree worth if there is no job in the country, due to many industries moving away and out of our country?

Think about the fact that the loss of goods coming into our country makes our national security better. We don't have to compromise our beliefs by trading for oil in countries that hate Israel. We don't have to compromise with China, who steals our technology, by buying everything from them.

But this is a huge discussion, and I'm just touching upon a few points. Generally, I think you're correct, but want to avoid any connection with the Trump Derangement Syndrome. If it's just about the need to remove tariffs and lower costs, fine. That's true. But I don't think the greater tariffs are designed to do anything more than negotiate more favorably with other countries on behalf of the US.

 

[miamited]

Second, let's assume the Chineese are using slave labor.

So, in your mind, in order for us to see it as you do, we must assume that the Chinese are using slave labor. But, what if they aren't? I mean, I've seen dozens of videos of many of the Chinese workshops and factories and as far as anyone says anything about it, those people are getting paid. And they're getting paid what, in China, is a livable wage. Just as we have some people in the U.S. that work on the lowest of pay scales, so too do they have in China. But it's still a nation of people making a living for themselves and raising their families.

Now, I'm absolutely against slave labor and I understand that there is quite a bit of that in N. Korea, but it's been a long, long time since anyone's ever shown evidence that China is some slave labor nation. I think India's likely more slave labor than China. So, what if we are able find evidence that the Chinese people are paid a living wage for their work, does that then make the tariffs a bad thing? Since we apparently have to assume that the Chinese are using slave labor, according to your own explanation, to understand how tariffs are a good thing.

And yes, if people want to buy American that's fine, but the world economy has changed since the days that America was a manufacturing juggernaut. And it has become quite acceptable to us, as a people and economic system, to allow the work of manufacturing be done all over the world. But we do still have manufacturing, it just isn't that we do all the manufacturing for American goods here in America. We haven't for decades, and it's always been acceptable and never caused us untold harm, despite all those who claim that foreigners are stealing our jobs. The U.S. has run a pretty lean ship as far as total employment of a nation of people. We have truly the most gargantuan bag of goods to buy and sell then you can find in any capitalist economy in the world.

And being the most prosperous and greed-filled bunch of capitalists... we're always going to have trade deficits with other nations. No group of people on the face of the earth buy as much stuff as Americans do? How would you not have trade deficits all over the planet? I was in Panama for a month recently and I don't recall seeing a single public storage facility for the time I was there, and I traveled all over the north-western part of the country. I was in Panama City and drove out and stayed a week in Pedasi and then a week in the Boquete area and another week in David. I don't remember seeing a single public storage business. But here, we have them literally every couple of blocks. New storage units going up and hundreds of them in most medium sized towns. The American economy thrives on just the fact that we buy lots and lots and lots of stuff. A lot of which we buy and can't use and so we pay to rent a storage facility to hold a garage-size bunch of our stuff.

Tariffs are a tax that the government of the incoming product charges whoever is importing that product into the country. It is not paid by somebody in some Chinese manufacturing plant in order to send their stuff to us. It is paid by us in order to get the stuff from China that our stores place on the shelves to feed our insatiable appetite for stuff. Yes, in that it does mean that the Chinese goods are more expensive to us, but not to the manufacturer in China that made it all. He still gets paid the same thing that he got paid before the tariffs. Paying tariffs is not some line item of cost on a factory balance sheet in China. It is a line item cost to the retailer in the U.S. that is selling the stuff from China. American people pay tariffs and then that money goes into the U.S. Treasury and just becomes a secondary tax on ourselves.

 

[Elijah7777]

So basically, at the moment, the American consumer is being double taxed. We are taxed on our income and we are taxed on the goods that we buy with what's left of that income.

What do you prefer? Do you want a tax on money you make or do you want to pay taxes when you spend your money. This is what they call a hidden tax because it is included in the price of the item you want to buy.

 

[miamited]

What do you prefer? Do you want a tax on money you make or do you want to pay taxes when you spend your money. This is what they call a hidden tax because it is included in the price of the item you want to buy.

Friend, the American people have, for several decades now, always paid income tax on their earned income and sales taxes on the spending of that income. I don't believe its ever been a 'which do you prefer' model. The American people have been paying income taxes since 1861 and sales taxes since 1921. That has never been a matter of our preferring one over the other as a means of financing government operations for ourselves.

FTR you have made a statement concerning the paying of taxes both on income and purchases. When you start your next sentence with 'this', what are you referring to? The income or the purchasing tax?

 

[Elijah7777]

Friend, the American people have, for several decades now, always paid income tax

Actually I was a single parent for 12 years. I was qualified to collect earned income but I never filed for it. We all pay sales tax, we do not all pay income tax. The taxes on my house is huge. It is around $4,000 a years now with the value of homes being so high. The house next to mine has doubled in value in the last 10 years.

 

[Corn Pop]

I just find it amazing how some people praise and love taxes. I cannot comprehend it. Then again many are just complainers and jealous others have more than them so want to see others taxed until everyone is equally broke and miserable like they are. Like tax the rich, well that's a dumb idea, the rich will just leave and go elsewhere and people lose jobs and be broke and miserable and hungry, some dude probably mows that rich persons lawns and weeds there gardens that feeds there families and pays the bills. You don't want rich person to flee. The wealthy help the broke and the broke help the wealthy.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I was reading today, and I would post the link, but it mentions political parties and such and I don't want this to be about politics. This is simply a question as to how everyone understands the collection of tariffs. So, I was reading today that our tariff collections are up some $15.4B. Where does that $15.4B come from? China sells a product to the U.S. Some guy at walmart thinks widgets are going to sell like hot cakes and buys 1,000 of them at .50 apiece. He sends a check to the Chinese manufacturer for $500. However, for the guy at Walmart to get them to his store, he has to pay a tariff to the government of the United States to bring those 1000 widgets off the boat. Well, let's say a 10% tariff. I don't want to be mean about this it's just an explanation. So the guy at Walmart has to write out another check for $50 to the U.S. Treasury. Then the retailer jacks up the price of each widget 10¢ to cover the cost of the tariff. So, a consumer comes along and says, "Oh, I need a widget." He carries the widget up to cashier and pays the price, which is 10¢ higher than it was last week.

Who paid the tariff?

In answer to your OP, Miamited, the cost gets passed on to everyone in one way or another. When tariffs go up on foreign goods, US company that depend on those goods are faced with two choices:

1. Eat the cost, or
2. Pass it on to the consumer

Nearly all will do some form of both. They have to eat some of the cost or they face not being competitive. But this lowers profit margins which upsets stockholders and deters investment. So they only eat as much as they have to to stay viable, and then pass the rest on to us. But that means several things. Prices going up means less people can afford to buy, and less business. And less business means less employees and staff, which means less people have money to spend, which means even less business, less profits to share holders, less employment, and the whole thing keeps spiraling down until something happens to correct the fall.

Reducing the trade deficit has been a hot topic in politics by all parties for as long as I can remember. Literally every candidate has tried to use the trade deficit as part of their campaign but little ever gets done.

Yes, and this is the real fly in the ointment. The nations are now up to their eyeballs in debt, and the whole time the masses are losing money, the World Bank and the IMF are getting rich to the gills doing nothing.

Without wanting to get too deep into "conspiracy theories," the reality of the situation is that the Devil is slowly driving the world economy into the ground to pave the way for a New World Order, one where the masses are so impoverished that the system collapses and they cry out for a "savior." One will be provided, only it won't be one they want.

 

[miamited]

Hi Hidden In Him

Good points. However, I disagree somewhat with your understanding that businesses will eat some of the tariff cost. You say that they must to stay in business. But consider that if a product that a business needs becomes more expensive for the one business that is buying that product, then every other business that buys that product also has to pay the higher cost.

example: a widget that is used to manufacture cars comes from China and the cost is increased due to tariffs. A car manufacturer continues to buy the widget but now has to include the tariff cost in the final product. But every other car manufacturer also has to pay the higher cost for their widgets, also. Now, it's possible that the widget can be bought more cheaply from some other source, but if that's the case, then all of the car manufactures are going to buy their widgets from the new, cheaper source. So, in the finished analysis, I contend that no business is going to simply eat the cost of tariffs to stay competitive because every other manufacturer in the same business is going to have the same increased costs to manufacture their product.

But yes, I agree that the world is moving ever closer to the day in which we will be seeking someone to help us out of our own destruction. We generally have expected this to eventually happen and now it is. Unfortunately we always expected that the driving force would be some foreign evil government, but it seems to be turning out that the enemy is us. Who can make war against the beast? The whole world follows after the beast. That's us! The United States of America looks to be the best candidate to be the beast that has risen out of the sea. The beast that the whole world follows after. And we always figured it would be some great and strong communist nation, but I don't believe that's going to wind up being the case.

As I see it, the current leadership of our very own nation is the impetus that will bring on the final events that will herald in the end of this age.

 

[Elijah7777]

until everyone is equally broke and miserable like they are.

My dad used to tell his favorite story about a TV repairman. At the time, the repairman charged $10 to fix a TV, but my dad thought that was too high. The repairman responded, “You don’t understand—I had to go to school for nine months to learn this.” This was back in the days before transistors, when fixing a TV simply meant finding the tube that wasn’t lit up and replacing it.

My dad laughed and said, “I went to high school, college, medical school, then completed my internship and residency. (Then he had to serve in the Army for 4 years because they paid for his medical school). Yet, he was only charging $5 for house calls.” The next day, he went to his office and raised his rate to $10—because, as he put it, “That’s what people wanted to charge me.”

Only 20% of people make around $80,000 a year—enough to buy a car, a house, and take a vacation once a year. The other 80% have to struggle. When I traveled, I often camped out because I couldn’t afford a hotel room. Eventually, hotel prices dropped, and you could get a room for just $8 plus taxes at an 8 Days Inn.

 

[miamited]

But I think the point here is a bit misleading. The big picture is not who pays the initial increase of costs. It is much more about the trade imbalance. Who do you think that hurts?

I don't see why so many think that trade imbalances are a bad thing. The people, the ones who live within the borders of the United States, are the most capricious and wealthy on the planet, overall. We buy and buy and buy all sorts of goods by the multiple trillions of dollars every single day. So, why would we not import more than we export. There aren't other nations out there like us that we can sell multiple trillions of dollars of goods to. And further, what is the damage or problem with our buying from other nations more than we sell to them? It seems to obviously not put Americans out of work. We, as a nation, have kept an unemployment rate generally under 3-5% for decades while still buying all these goods that some are claiming will destroy us economically by putting Americans out of work.

However, now we're going to get to see how our fight against trade is going to put thousands of Americans out of work. American companies are beginning to lay off hundreds of thousands of people. It's beginning to look like the days of the financial crisis of '09. All for what? What will we gain by arguing and fighting with other nations over the importation of goods? Higher prices for us? And do you really believe that it is a reasonable path to say that other nations must pay to sell their goods to us? That doing business with America is a 'privilege'? Friend, we're all just people doing the best we can to provide for ourselves and our families for the most part. The father in China wants to work to put food on his family's table. The father in Guatemala works to be able to put food on his family's table.

So tell me, who do the trade imbalances hurt? Certainly it has never caused any hurt for Americans. I mean, we've been carrying a trade imbalance with China for at least 50 years now. Do you believe that a great number of Americans have been hurt by it? Are we not rich enough because of a trade imbalance? Or have we gotten richer because of our ability to buy more stuff than we sell to other nations. Where is the struggle? Where is the pain that you believe has been caused to America because of trade imbalances that have gone on now for at least 50 years?

 

[Elijah7777]

But yes, I agree that the world is moving ever closer to the day in which we will be seeking someone to help us out of our own destruction.

The U.S. national debt currently stands at over $36 trillion. This is the highest national debt in the world, and it continues to grow rapidly. The U.S. pays for its national debt primarily through tax revenue and borrowing. Here’s how it works: The U.S. federal tax revenue for 2025 is estimated to be $5.16 trillion.

There was a big fight at 12 trillion and 20 trillion dollars. The president would not sign the budget. But then they threatened to shut the government down to force their excessive spending down.

 

[hawkman]

My dad used to tell his favorite story about a TV repairman. At the time, the repairman charged $10 to fix a TV, but my dad thought that was too high. The repairman responded, “You don’t understand—I had to go to school for nine months to learn this.” This was back in the days before transistors, when fixing a TV simply meant finding the tube that wasn’t lit up and replacing it.

Ahh ! If it had been only that simple to fix all the TV repairs I did . Resistors burn out , capacitors fail , tuners need cleaning , also a tube can light up and still be non functioning . Back in the good old days , the aroma of a shorted transformer in the morning .

My dad laughed and said, “I went to high school, college, medical school, then completed my internship and residency. (Then he had to serve in the Army for 4 years because they paid for his medical school). Yet, he was only charging $5 for house calls.” The next day, he went to his office and raised his rate to $10—because, as he put it, “That’s what people wanted to charge me.”

I hope your Dad sent the TV repairman a bonus for that help on setting his rates .

 

[Elijah7777]

Ahh ! If it had been only that simple to fix all the TV repairs I did . Resistors burn out , capacitors fail , tuners need cleaning , also a tube can light up and still be non functioning . Back in the good old days , the aroma of a shorted transformer in the morning

I have had to replace the circuit board for my furnace twice. They do not fix them, they just put a new one in. There was a time when a furnace would last 100 years. Now you are doing good to get 20 years out of them.

I just found out my old Sony TV is worth $170 because they use them for retro games that can not be played on the new TV systems. I remember my old Amega computer sold for $60. Even though they were $500 new. They say the Commodore 64 can sell for up to $100 today. Not sure why when you can use an emulator. I guess they still want to see the look and feel of the original.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi Hidden In Him

Good points. However, I disagree somewhat with your understanding that businesses will eat some of the tariff cost. You say that they must to stay in business. But consider that if a product that a business needs becomes more expensive for the one business that is buying that product, then every other business that buys that product also has to pay the higher cost.

example: a widget that is used to manufacture cars comes from China and the cost is increased due to tariffs. A car manufacturer continues to buy the widget but now has to include the tariff cost in the final product. But every other car manufacturer also has to pay the higher cost for their widgets, also. Now, it's possible that the widget can be bought more cheaply from some other source, but if that's the case, then all of the car manufactures are going to buy their widgets from the new, cheaper source. So, in the finished analysis, I contend that no business is going to simply eat the cost of tariffs to stay competitive because every other manufacturer in the same business is going to have the same increased costs to manufacture their product.

But yes, I agree that the world is moving ever closer to the day in which we will be seeking someone to help us out of our own destruction. We generally have expected this to eventually happen and now it is. Unfortunately we always expected that the driving force would be some foreign evil government, but it seems to be turning out that the enemy is us. Who can make war against the beast? The whole world follows after the beast. That's us! The United States of America looks to be the best candidate to be the beast that has risen out of the sea. The beast that the whole world follows after. And we always figured it would be some great and strong communist nation, but I don't believe that's going to wind up being the case.

As I see it, the current leadership of our very own nation is the impetus that will bring on the final events that will herald in the end of this age.

Good morning, Miamited. That’s where I have to part ways with a lot of people. I just don’t think we are that close to the end. I do think what was said in the thread on Burning America is the case, so recent events have not helped the situation IMO but only sped things up a little (despite best efforts). But way too long to go still before worrying about the end of the age.

 

[Elijah7777]

But way too long to go still before worrying about the end of the age.

The Church age is 2,000 years. We have 3.5 years to go. For 100 years now they have been saying that Trump is the last president.

The Last President, written by Ingersoll Lockwood in 1896, is a political satire that imagines a chaotic future for the United States. The book describes a nation in turmoil following the election of an unexpected president, leading to protests, economic instability, and fears of societal collapse. Lockwood critiques the rise of socialism and populism, portraying them as forces that could destabilize the country2.

The story unfolds with mobs taking to the streets, wealthy elites fearing for their safety, and the government struggling to maintain order. Some readers have drawn parallels between the book’s themes and modern political events, leading to renewed interest in Lockwood’s writings.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Church age is 2,000 years. We have 3.5 years to go. For 100 years now they have been saying that Trump is the last president.

The Last President, written by Ingersoll Lockwood in 1896, is a political satire that imagines a chaotic future for the United States. The book describes a nation in turmoil following the election of an unexpected president, leading to protests, economic instability, and fears of societal collapse. Lockwood critiques the rise of socialism and populism, portraying them as forces that could destabilize the country2.

The story unfolds with mobs taking to the streets, wealthy elites fearing for their safety, and the government struggling to maintain order. Some readers have drawn parallels between the book’s themes and modern political events, leading to renewed interest in Lockwood’s writings.

I appreciate you sharing, but 3.5 years from now you will find out that it was not the case. Just sharing.

 

[RandyK]

I don't see why so many think that trade imbalances are a bad thing. The people, the ones who live within the borders of the United States, are the most capricious and wealthy on the planet, overall. We buy and buy and buy all sorts of goods by the multiple trillions of dollars every single day. So, why would we not import more than we export.

Simply put, it's not good for our companies to be charged too much for selling abroad. They cannot compete with goods made in other countries. We want our companies to expand, requiring the hiring of more Americans. International trade can be a good thing encuraging good international relations between peaceful countries.

So, I'm focused upon tariffs being a bad thing when they unequally punish American companies, while giving advantages to foreign countries selling in our country.

If other countries want to increase tariffs to punish American companies, and that forces American consumers to pay more for some goods, wouldn't that have some benefit in cutting down discretionary and luxurious spending habits? Necessary items can be produced here in the U.S.

There aren't other nations out there like us that we can sell multiple trillions of dollars of goods to. And further, what is the damage or problem with our buying from other nations more than we sell to them? It seems to obviously not put Americans out of work. We, as a nation, have kept an unemployment rate generally under 3-5% for decades while still buying all these goods that some are claiming will destroy us economically by putting Americans out of work.

The problem here is you're referring to previous "decades" when the current crisis is at an unsustainable level. 36 trillion in debt and a deficit that will increase that. So much of our budget has to account for interest payments, and ultimately, income that poor and moderate Americans rely on, like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will have to be reduced.

However, now we're going to get to see how our fight against trade is going to put thousands of Americans out of work. American companies are beginning to lay off hundreds of thousands of people.

I wasn't aware that was happening. Hundreds of thousands of people in America are being laid off? I was under the impression that the unemployment rate is steady, and people are still being hired?

It's beginning to look like the days of the financial crisis of '09. All for what? What will we gain by arguing and fighting with other nations over the importation of goods? Higher prices for us? And do you really believe that it is a reasonable path to say that other nations must pay to sell their goods to us? That doing business with America is a 'privilege'?

Bombast and bellicose statements are part of the "Art of the Deal." I pay little attention to those who want to insult and fight Trump over his particular use of "language" tactics. The results are what matter.

The crisis of 2008-2009 and the like are the occasional "vomit" of an economic system that allows extreme excess. Banks sometimes loan out money sloppily to those who cannot repay.

If money is too easily loaned out to irresponsible businesses, because the interest rate is so low, there is going to be damage done to banks when that money is not paid back. And if the banks go down, people with money in those banks, exceeding insurance, will go down as well. And many of those wealthy people provide jobs for many, many workers.

If insurance companies are allowed to cheat, because they are successful lobbyists, that is going to drain the wealth of a lot of people. If US politiicans resist balancing the budget in order to "get elected," we're going to continue to have problems, and to a more critical level.

We will have problems if the military-industrial complex successfully lobbies for increasing government expenditures. There are only so many ways the money "pie" can be cut!

To be honest with you, I don't like the trend of encouraging all Americans to invest their retirement in the Stock Market. At some point, money loses its value, and the only thing that retains value are assets that cannot lose their value, such as precious metals, property, etc.

Large companies can go out of business. Even with diversification this is a problem. It can end up where we're paying our bank to hold our money! Our interest made in CDs will be less than the rate of inflation.

And the value of money is being lost when the government pursues high expenditures and wishes for it to be paid for with an increase in the money supply. If your money is not keeping up with the ability to buy a house, watch out! The wealth of most Americans is tied up in their house. And if their job forces them to move they're going to pay a much higher interest rate!

Friend, we're all just people doing the best we can to provide for ourselves and our families for the most part. The father in China wants to work to put food on his family's table. The father in Guatemala works to be able to put food on his family's table.

I don't like anything but very limited trade with China, because I believe they're trying to kill us and weaken us. They're aggressively trying to be the dominant player on earth. And they oppress people, forcing them to work for very little or die.

I cannot compare a communist State with a free democratic society. A tyrannical state can play unfairly. The Chinest people I care about. But their State controls the policy.

And quite frankly, the average Chinese may not care how badly American people are being killed by fentanyl or by biological warfare. Should we be helping Chinese children while our own children are dying?

So tell me, who do the trade imbalances hurt? Certainly it has never caused any hurt for Americans. I mean, we've been carrying a trade imbalance with China for at least 50 years now. Do you believe that a great number of Americans have been hurt by it? Are we not rich enough because of a trade imbalance? Or have we gotten richer because of our ability to buy more stuff than we sell to other nations. Where is the struggle? Where is the pain that you believe has been caused to America because of trade imbalances that have gone on now for at least 50 years?

I'm not looking back to see how things were. I'm looking forward to how bad things are getting. But thanks for your comments. I'm a "learner" when it comes to economics--don't know a lot, but am very interested.

 

[miamited]

I appreciate you sharing, but 3.5 years from now you will find out that it was not the case. Just sharing.

While I don't necessarily hold to the final collapse of God's creative work coming to an end in 3.5 years, I do believe that it could well come within the next 10-50 years. Fortunately I won't be here to look back after 50 years and see whether my understanding was correct or not. But as I have written previously on these threads, I have serious concerns that the U.S. is the beast out of the sea written about in the Revelation of Jesus.

As I have previously explained, when the Scriptures speak of beasts upon the earth, it most regularly is talking about nations. Daniel saw visions of a number of beasts and they all turned out to be nations that came and went as the sands of time moved on. So, in the Revelation we are told of a beast that rises up out of the sea. Now we know that this piece of the Revelation is speaking of this beast coming up sometime after John was given the Revelation while on the island of Patmos. I believe most theologians agree that when the bible speaks of the 'sea', it is referring to the people that live on the earth. It's very possible that the account of the Revelation is telling us that another nation will rise up from among the people on the earth. In the 1400's the nation of America, not quite a nation yet, began to come into being. It's main source of population was from foreigners who came and settled within an area that was later to become the United States of America. The United States is a nation that was literally built from people of nearly every tribe and tongue coming to live within its borders. Literally a 'beast' (nation) that has come up out of the 'sea' (people of the earth). In that respect, America is pretty much the only nation that can make that claim to so many, many different ethnic groups that made up our starting as a nation.

Then we read some other references to this beast. One is that everyone follows after the 'beast'. So, if the beast is a reference to a nation, there is currently no nation on the earth that the whole world follows after as much as the United States of America. We see it near daily now that some foreign nation dignitary feels compelled to come and 'follow after' what America is doing. China makes some financial change and nobody is much affected by it. The American government makes a financial change and the whole world goes into a turmoil.

Then we read about the beast people saying, "Who can make war against the beast?" Well, of all the nations on the earth, the United States of America has long held the position of having the most powerful military on the planet. Iran would like nothing more than to wipe the nation of the United States off the face of the earth... but they don't. Even though they may rail and shout and thump their chests concerning things that the United States is doing, no one is ready to go to war against the United States.

So, knowing that the time of the end is reasonably close, as in the next couple of hundred years, the qualifications of the beast written about in the Revelation, if in fact the reference to a beast is intending the same thing that the references to beasts was in Daniel's visions, and the qualifications that the beast comes up out of the sea and that everyone follows and are wary of making war against, the U.S. is the only answer that we currently have. Now, there could possibly be another nation to come up among the people of the world filled with the people of the world that everyone follows and is hesitant to make war against. But at this present time in the 6,000 year history of the world, the United States of America is currently the only front runner that meets ALL of those parameters.

 

[miamited]

Simply put, it's not good for our companies to be charged too much for selling abroad.

I'm not clear on why you believe American companies are charged for selling abroad. Sure, there are issues here and there concerning products that other nations might put a tariff on, but again, if you've been paying attention to the economists, tariffs are not a charge to the selling nation. They are a charge to the people of the buying nation. They do, of course, because they are a charge to the buying nation, curtail some buying from the affected nations, but no nation is charging American companies for selling their goods to other nations. It is not China that pays the 140% tariff. China merely sells their goods for the same price that they always have, but for an importer to buy those Chinese goods, the American importer pays the 140% tariff. I really don't get how so many people seem to think that China is having to pay tariffs to sell their goods in the American market. Americans pay a tariff in order to bring the Chinese goods into the country. China makes nothing on American tariffs, nor does it cost them anything monetarily beyond just not selling as much because American importers may not want to pay the tariff.

So, I'm focused upon tariffs being a bad thing when they unequally punish American companies, while giving advantages to foreign countries selling in our country.

Personally, I would say that your making that statement shows that you don't really understand how tariffs work. The tariffs in question are tariffs placed by the American government that are punishing American companies. The Chinese weren't even considering changing their tariff structure until our government forced them to address the matter by putting crazy large tariffs on their products. And those tariffs are not paid by China, but paid by Americans. When an importer pays a tariff that cost is then added to the cost of a good that is then sold on the American market. We are honestly just taxing ourselves.

I don't like anything but very limited trade with China, because I believe they're trying to kill us and weaken us. They're aggressively trying to be the dominant player on earth. And they oppress people, forcing them to work for very little or die.

I wasn't aware that was happening. Hundreds of thousands of people in America are being laid off?

Oh, it hasn't all happened yet because our government keeps threatening and then pulling back, but the cracks are showing.

Tariff Layoff Tracker: P&G Latest With Job Cuts

Some companies have announced layoffs while citing the market impact from President Donald Trump’s far-reaching tariffs.

www.forbes.com

MSN

Khanna Sounds Alarm as 4,100+ Factory Workers Laid Off Amid Trump Tariff Chaos | Common Dreams

"Imagine if federal worker unions and Democratic Party officials showed up at the plant gate of a company that was about to close its doors," said one labor advocate recently. "Why aren't the Democrats doing this?"

www.commondreams.org

Cleveland-Cliffs lays off more than 1,200 workers as tariffs hit demand

A number of North American steel manufacturers are struggling to deal with the impacts of the Trump administration’s trade policy.

www.manufacturingdive.com

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/07/business/uaw-us-autoworkers-tariffs-layoffs/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/03/business/tariff-related-layoffs-hit-five-us-auto-plants/index.html

So, at this point in time the number may not reach 'hundreds' of thousands, but it has been several thousand according to the provided links. It will get worse once our government does begin to apply and enforce the tariffs that are being threatened.

I don't like anything but very limited trade with China, because I believe they're trying to kill us and weaken us. They're aggressively trying to be the dominant player on earth. And they oppress people, forcing them to work for very little or die.

Why in the world would you believe that China is trying to kill us. They haven't been threatening us or doing anything that would seem like they are. And do you mean that China is wanting to be like us in trying to be the dominant player on the earth? Sure, every nation does what it believes is best for its people, but China doesn't want to kill off Americans. WE'RE THE ONES WHO ARE BUYING ALL THEIR GOODS!!!!!! Talk about someone killing the goose that laid the golden egg, sheesh.