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How much of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation do partial preterists view as fulfilled?

for_his_glory

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The question of the Trinity was given as a point of progressive doctrine, as you well know. Not to debate the Trinity. And of course you ignore the point.

You hold to dispensations whether you like it or not. Do you agree? Was the system of the Mosaic Law different than the system of Grace that the Church is under now? Of course it was. Or are we still under the Law of Moses?

So, you hold to two dispensations at least. Does that make you some sort of 'dispensationalist'?

How about Adam and Eve in the Garden? Think about it. Their world was pristine, sinless, and perfect fellowship with God. Their responsibility was to care for the Garden and they could eat of any fruit of it, except from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. But, they failed.

So, there you have another time period, from Adam to the fall, that cannot be repeated today. A dispensation of 'innocence'. That was unique time where Adam and Eve were under specific command which cannot be repeated today. Do you agree?

So there you go. Possibly you hold to three dispensations. So why do you warn me of going down the wrong road of dispensationalism. Especially since Paul is clear concerning the newest dispensation. (Eph. 3:2)

Quantrill
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHISEDEC priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19
 

Quantrill

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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Old Mosaic Covenant...............................New Spiritual Covenant

OLD Covenant... II Cor. 3:14.....................NEW Covenant... II Cor. 3:6
FIRST Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 9:1...............SECOND Covenant... Heb. 8:7, 10:1-9
Came by Moses... John 1:17.....................Came by Christ... Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of God in STONE... II Cor.3:3.............Law of God in HEART... Heb. 10:16
Law of Moses... Acts 13:38-39..................Law of CHRIST... Gal. 6:2
Law of the flesh... Rom. 7:5-6...................Law of the SPIRIT... Rom. 8:2
NOT of faith... Gal. 3:2.............................Law of FAITH... Rom. 3:27
Yoke of BONDAGE... Gal. 5:1.................. Law of LIBERTY... James 1:25
Law of SIN... Rom. 7:5-6...........................Law of RIGHTEOUSNESS... Rom. 9:30-31
Law of DEATH... II Cor. 3:7.......................Law of LIFE... Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Christ removes OLD... Heb. 10:9...............Christ enacted the NEW... Heb.10:9
A SHADOW... Col. 2:14-17.......................The REALITY... Heb. 10:1-18
FULFILLED... Matt. 5:17-18......................NOW IN FORCE... Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Priesthood CHANGED... Heb. 7:12...........UNCHANGEABLE Priesthood... Heb. 7:24
MANY sacrifices... Heb. 9:12-13...............ONE sacrifice for sin... Heb. 10:12
IMPERFECT... Heb. 7:19..........................PERFECT... Heb. 7:19
Blood of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:19.................Blood of CHRIST... Matt. 26:28
Circumcision... Ex. 12:48.........................Uncircumcision... Rom. 4:9-12
WORKS of law... Gal. 3:10.......................NOT of works but GRACE... Eph. 2:8
REMEMBERS sins... Heb. 10:3.................FORGETS sins... Heb. 10:17
YEARLY atonement... Heb. 10:3...............PERMANENT atonement... Heb. 10:4
SINFUL priests... Heb. 5:3........................SINLESS priest... Heb. 7:26
AARONIC priesthood... Heb. 7:11.............MELCHISEDEC priest... Heb. 5:5-10
MAN MADE tabernacle... Heb. 8:5............HEAVENLY tabernacle... Heb. 8:2, 11
Out of LEVI... Heb. 7:11...........................Out of JUDAH... Heb. 7:14
WEAK, UNPROFITABLE... Heb. 7:18........POWER of ENDLESS LIFE... Heb. 7:16
NO inheritance... Rom. 4:13......................ETERNAL inheritance... Heb. 9:15
Sacrifice of ANIMALS... Heb. 9:13.............Sacrifice of CHRIST... Heb. 9:28
Purified the FLESH... Heb. 8:13................Purged the CONSCIENCE... Heb. 9:14
PRODUCES wrath... Rom. 4:15................SAVES from wrath... Rom. 5:9
Perfected NOTHING... Heb. 7:19..............Perfects BELIEVERS... Heb. 10:14
NO MERCY... Heb. 10:28.........................COMPLETE MERCY... Heb. 8:12
NO justification... Acts 13:39....................BELIEVERS justified... Acts 13:39
BRINGS a curse... Gal. 3:10.....................REDEEMS from curse... Acts 3:13
ABOLISHED... II Cor. 3:13........................CONTINUES IN GLORY... II Cor. 3:11
Brought DEATH... II Cor. 3:7....................Brought RECONCILIATION... II Cor. 5:18
ISRAEL ONLY... Deut. 4:7-8, 5:3..............ALL MANKIND Mark 14:24, II Cor. 5:14-19
The Law and Grace are different 'dispensations'. Correct or not?

Quantrill
 
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JLB

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No, I haven't ignored the Scriptures you present. I have explained them.

The point is the message, the Gospel is different at different times. Again, if Paul's Gospel was not known at any time until he received it from Christ

You have explained nothing. You have attempted to promote
“another” Gospel other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is nothing more than a divisive attempt to divide and confuse
God’s people.


how can his gospel be the same gospel of the Kingdom?


Because He is Lord and He changes not, whether walking on the earth or seated at the right hand of God, His Gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world, then the end will come.


And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14


There is one Church made up of both Jews and Gentiles who are saved through believing and therefore obeying the same Gospel; The Gospel of Jesus Christ.


The Gentiles of the house of Cornelius were saved exactly the same way as the Jews were, by believing and repenting, after hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


Here is the testimony of the Jews about Peter preaching to the Gentiles —


If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”
When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:17-18


Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


  • and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.






JLB
 
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JLB

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I am disputing that there is only one gospel. The message of the Gospel of the Kingdom is not the same as the Gospel of Grace.

Please explain the difference in the Gospel of grace and the Gospel of the kingdom and show us from the scriptures when it changed.


Who is the author of this different Gospel?



JLB
 

Quantrill

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Because He is Lord and He changes not, whether walking on the earth or seated at the right hand of God, His Gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world, then the end will come.

JLB

So this is your answer as to how can Paul's Gospel be the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom, when (Eph. 3:1-6) and (Rom. 16:25) clearly state that Pauls Gospel was never known before?



Quantrill
 
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JLB

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That's a pretty serious accusation you're making there. I bet if I made that accusation to you, I would get a warning and banned.

What should we call any other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

What is the name of your Gospel?


Paul teaches us that those who do not obey the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST will suffer the flaming fire of God's judgement.

Here it is again --


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8

Does Paul say the Gospel of Jesus Christ?


Promoting some "other Gospel" other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ is HERESY.


JLB
 

JLB

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So this is your answer as to how can Paul's Gospel be the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom, when (Eph. 3:1-6) and (Rom. 16:25) clearly state that Pauls Gospel was never known befor
When you decide to use scripture with context then I will address your claim
 

for_his_glory

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It's not complicated which is why you ignore my question.

Quantrill
I never said it was not Paul's message as it was Paul's gospel in the sense that Christ gave him what to preach making it Paul's message given specifically to Him by Christ. You make it sound like it was Paul alone preaching his own words making it the gospel of Paul and not the gospel of Christ.
 

for_his_glory

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So many verses yet you continue to ignore the point. The Law and Grace are different 'dispensations'. Correct or not?

Quantrill
This was your question: Was the system of the Mosaic Law different than the system of Grace that the Church is under now? Of course it was. Or are we still under the Law of Moses?

I gave you the answer in post #181.

The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.


 

Quantrill

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What should we call any other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

What is the name of your Gospel?


Paul teaches us that those who do not obey the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST will suffer the flaming fire of God's judgement.

Here it is again --


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 1:8

Does Paul say the Gospel of Jesus Christ?


Promoting some "other Gospel" other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ is HERESY.


JLB

Did you read my explanations in (146), (149), and (165)?

OK. So, you want to label me a heretic. If I were to call you a heretic, I would be warned and banned.

The Gospel I proclaim at this time is the one given to Paul by the resurrected Christ. (Gal. 1:12) The one that had never been known before. (Eph. 3:1-6) (Rom. 16:25) The one you reject.

You are proclaiming the Gospel of the Kingdom. But, that ship has sailed, for now. Paul's Gospel is now preached, which is given him by Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:12) And the seriousness of rejecting that is spelled out in (Gal. 1:8-9). Not to mention (Gal. 5:12).

Of course if Paul's letters are not part of the Bible, then it doesn't really matter. But if they are, then they are the inspired Word of God.

Point being, it is not me promoting another gospel.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

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When you decide to use scripture with context then I will address your claim

Scripture and context are clear. The problem is you refuse to answer because Scripture is against you.

So, again, how can Paul's Gospel be the same message as the Gospel of the Kingdom, when Paul's Gospel was never known before. (Eph. 3:1-6) (Rom. 16;25).

Quantrill
 
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Quantrill

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I never said it was not Paul's message as it was Paul's gospel in the sense that Christ gave him what to preach making it Paul's message given specifically to Him by Christ. You make it sound like it was Paul alone preaching his own words making it the gospel of Paul and not the gospel of Christ.

Why don't you answer my question. How can Paul's Gospel be the same as the Gospel of the Kingdom which Christ first preached, if Paul's Gospel was never known before. (Eph. 3:1-9) (Rom. 16:25)

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

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This was your question: Was the system of the Mosaic Law different than the system of Grace that the Church is under now? Of course it was. Or are we still under the Law of Moses?

I gave you the answer in post #181.

The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.



No, you answered nothing in post #(181). In post #(177) I asked you if you agree, since law and grace are two different systems, that they are two different dispensations. You did not answer. You just gave a lot of verses. Smoke. Do you really believe you answered my questions with that post?

You don't want to call them 'dispensations' even though Scripture calls them 'dispensations. (Eph. 1:10) (Eph. 3:2)

What? Are you saying we are still under the Law?

Quantrill
 

JLB

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Did you read my explanations in (146), (149), and (165)?

OK. So, you want to label me a heretic. If I were to call you a heretic, I would be warned and banned.

Here is what I stated.


Promoting some "other Gospel" other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ is HERESY.



Do you agree or disagree with this statement ?



JLB
 

JLB

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Scripture and context are clear. The problem is you refuse to answer because Scripture is against you.

So, again, how can Paul's Gospel be the same message as the Gospel of the Kingdom, when Paul's Gospel was never known before. (Eph. 3:1-6) (Rom. 16;25).

Still no scripture. Only your opinion tagged with a scripture reference. Why?


Please post a scripture. Eph 3:1-6 is not a scripture, it’s only a reference.

The content of the scripture is what I would like to examine.




JLB
 

JLB

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And yet, you call me a heretic. You accuse me of preaching another gospel.

Again, here is what I stated.


Promoting some "other Gospel" other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ is HERESY.


Are you promoting “another Gospel”, other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

If you are, then whose Gospel is it, and where did it come from?




JLB
 

Quantrill

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Here is what I stated.


Promoting some "other Gospel" other than the Gospel of Jesus Christ is HERESY.



Do you agree or disagree with this statement ?



JLB

You accuse me in post #(185) of promoting another Gospel. In post #(190) you call that heresy.

You are accusing me of being a heretic. Plain and simple.

You have not showed that I promote another Gospel. In fact, it is slowly coming to light that it may be you that is promoting another gospel. You are trying to say Paul's gospel is the Gospel of the Kingdom. And (Eph. 3:1-9) and (Rom. 16:25) is clear that that can't be so.

Paul's Gospel had never been known or preached before. Thus it cannot be the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Quantrill
 

Quantrill

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Still no scripture. Only your opinion tagged with a scripture reference. Why?


Please post a scripture. Eph 3:1-6 is not a scripture, it’s only a reference.

The content of the scripture is what I would like to examine.




JLB

Two Scriptures are in front of you and you complain that there is no Scripture. If you slide your arrow over the Scripture it gives you the Scripture.

I have given it before many times already. You simply don't believe the Scripture. See post #(146), (149), and (165).

You have been given the content. You refuse to believe it.

Quantrill
 
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