How must we love?

[arunangelo]

Love is the Spirit of selflessness, sacrifice and service. Love therefore is sublime, selfless, sacrificial, pure and unconditional. Those who love, therefore, do not make distinction between friend or foe; will put other’s interest and life ahead of their own; will unconditionally forgive others; will not take revenge; are generous, humble, patient, kind; will never seeks reward for acts of love; and will love others even in face of betrayal and hurt. Furthermore, they will see the opportunity to serve others as a reward, because love is the inner most longing of their spirit and the voice of God that resonates in their heart

 

[justvisiting]

I agree with most of what you say...but love is not unconditional, neither is your salvation. You are Saved because you believe...and if a Christian turns against God...we are to have no company with such a person. That is not self-righteousness. That is Bible. Otherwise, they would damage the faith of other believers.
The teaching that God's love is UNconditional is not Biblical.
God did commend His love to us while we were yet sinners...He will also condemn those that reject Him. Remember that. He is both a loving Father...and a righteous judge.
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This is the young man that was having an affair with his father's wife...later the church was told to forgive him, because he repented.
2Co 2:5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
2Co 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
Christians are required to weight ALL things.

Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
We are not to be Universalists.We are to show love to all men only in as much as we care for their souls...not being polluted by their ways.

 

[Guest]

Let me throw my two cents worth in...love happens to be a current study for me....

I agree with most of what you say...but love is not unconditional,

actually, love, biblical love is indeed unconditional...you see, love is extended to us whether we accept it or not, whether we live in it or not...take the example of the prodigal son, the father loved him even when he was out in the world...biblical love is without question, unconditional.

neither is your salvation.

now as to salvation, you are right, salvation is in fact conditional. The condition is our belief.

You are Saved because you believe...and if a Christian turns against God...we are to have no company with such a person. That is not self-righteousness. That is Bible. Otherwise, they would damage the faith of other believers.

one word of caution here, the bible tells us to love others (love is patient) into believing. We can't do that if we run away at the first hint of rebellion against God which is how many interpret this. IOW's there is a place in which we walk away, but if we love as Christ did, we also patiently wait for them to see the Christ. Hope that makes sense.

The teaching that God's love is UNconditional is not Biblical.

God's love is always unconditional and always extended to us, we don't always except it, in fact, even the mature believer often misses God's love when it is extended to man, but it is without condition, ours.

God did commend His love to us while we were yet sinners...He will also condemn those that reject Him. Remember that. He is both a loving Father...and a righteous judge.

Judging rightly is indeed love.

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This is the young man that was having an affair with his father's wife...later the church was told to forgive him, because he repented.
2Co 2:5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
2Co 2:6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
2Co 2:7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
2Co 2:8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
Christians are required to weight ALL things.

Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
We are not to be Universalists.We are to show love to all men only in as much as we care for their souls...not being polluted by their ways.

Be careful, I Cor. 13 tells us that love does not think of it's own. Look at it this way, when you see someone in sin, and you extend to them kindness, compassion, etc...Love...what is the motive of your heart? Your righteousness? Your purity? The notch you will have in your belt for winning a lost soul? Or is your thought only for that one in which you love? It's a hard question to ask, one I have been forced to ask many times over. Love that thinks of it's own is not love at all.

 

[Adullam]

Love just is! It doesn't calculate whether another is worthy of love or not.

We should surrender our love so that Christ's love may enlighten our paths. Even the best we can do falls short of love. God is love. We should make room in our hearts for God to love through us. This is only achieved when every other consideration...even the innocent love we have for our children or dear ones...is laid on the altar of sacrifice to God. We cannot truly love outside of the truth. Love is the greatest truth but only when the truth is doing the loving.

 

[Guest]

Love just is! It doesn't calculate whether another is worthy of love or not.

We should surrender our love so that Christ's love may enlighten our paths. Even the best we can do falls short of love. God is love. We should make room in our hearts for God to love through us. This is only achieved when every other consideration...even the innocent love we have for our children or dear ones...is laid on the altar of sacrifice to God. We cannot truly love outside of the truth. Love is the greatest truth but only when the truth is doing the loving.

The Spirit within, flowing through us into the world...very nice...amen

 

[justvisiting]

I realize the topic here is love, but you are mentioning love is UNconditional. I do believe that God wishes that NONE would perish...and that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...but what do you do with this...this is the other side of the balance in the scale.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Guest]

I realize the topic here is love, but you are mentioning love is UNconditional. I do believe that God wishes that NONE would perish...and that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...but what do you do with this...this is the other side of the balance in the scale.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I'm not sure where in that you find conditional love, so let me say this...Love takes on many different forms. Not only is love sweet and edifying, it is also just and correcting and that is to only name a couple. I Cor. 13 gives us a picture of God's love and the first thing listed in I Cor. 13 is Love is patient...this patience is like...extreme...it is a patience that both waits and is merciful. This isn't to say that we can't push love away, we do it all the time. But it is to say that a love like God's is not conditional on who we are, what we do, or even if we reject it...the love always remains, is always there, is a constant. It is a love that is freely given, without requirements, unconditional, meaning without condition.

Romans 8:37-39
Ephesians 1:4-5
II Timothy 1:9
John 3:17
John 10:9
Acts 2:21
Rom. 10:9-13
I Tim. 6:16-19

In addition to these we can look at passages about God's purpose since the beginning of time, all of which show us a love that is without condition...It seems to me you are confusing love and salvation. Our salvation is in fact conditional...God's love is not, nor are they the same thing

 

[justvisiting]

I'm not sure where in that you find conditional love, so let me say this...Love takes on many different forms. Not only is love sweet and edifying, it is also just and correcting and that is to only name a couple. I Cor. 13 gives us a picture of God's love and the first thing listed in I Cor. 13 is Love is patient...this patience is like...extreme...it is a patience that both waits and is merciful. This isn't to say that we can't push love away, we do it all the time. But it is to say that a love like God's is not conditional on who we are, what we do, or even if we reject it...the love always remains, is always there, is a constant. It is a love that is freely given, without requirements, unconditional, meaning without condition.

Well, you stated something very important, but what you are calling the love of God in being just and correcting, to me, is more His righteousness.
God is love...God is also righteous. To separate the two would be to miss His full character.
If God was only love. What we would end up with, would be Universalism. Everybody would be Saved because righteousness would not apply. That is what I meant about the balance. There is such a thing as the wrath of God upon the ungodly, also...but He desires that no man would die in his sins. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...but does He get angry with them...yes. Both LOVING and RIGHTEOUS.
I also think the same thing applies to the Christian. Certainly we are to show compassion to the lost...but, look at what Stephen...a man that certainly loved God said.
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
MY POINT IS STEPHEN DID SHOW THE LOVE OF GOD. HE ALSO SHOWED THEM THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.
The question was...how shall we love? I am suggesting we are not to be walked on...but still state the righteousness of God with the compassions of God.

 

[Guest]

Well, you stated something very important, but what you are calling the love of God in being just and correcting, to me, is more His righteousness.
God is love...God is also righteous. To separate the two would be to miss His full character.

exactly, love is just, love is righteous...there is no separating the two....consider our own children (don't know if you have any) we correct them because our love for them is unconditional...we treat them justly for that very say unconditional love. Without love, there could be no justice, no mercy, no righteousness.

If God was only love. What we would end up with, would be Universalism. Everybody would be Saved because righteousness would not apply.

yet what I am suggesting to you is that righteousness applies and even exists because of unconditional Love. Righteousness would not exist without Love.

That is what I meant about the balance. There is such a thing as the wrath of God upon the ungodly, also...but He desires that no man would die in his sins. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...but does He get angry with them...yes. Both LOVING and RIGHTEOUS.
I also think the same thing applies to the Christian. Certainly we are to show compassion to the lost...but, look at what Stephen...a man that certainly loved God said.
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Act 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
Act 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
MY POINT IS STEPHEN DID SHOW THE LOVE OF GOD. HE ALSO SHOWED THEM THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.
The question was...how shall we love? I am suggesting we are not to be walked on...but still state the righteousness of God with the compassions of God.

What I am suggesting to you is that righteousness cannot exist without the existance of Love...consider this, the shortest definition I can apply to God's love is to think of others as more than oneself, now if this is the simplist definition, and the definition of righteousness is...1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>

How can a man be righteous without love? If my focus is on self and not God, how can I be righteous? If God's focus is on God and not man, how can he be righteous? Righteousness is an act, a byproduct if you will of God's unconditional love.

 

[justvisiting]

I read you. Your focus is against self-righteousness...fine. I still don't accept UNconditional. There are conditions for Christians to be Saved also. We have imputed righteousness...but we also will face the righteous judge for our deeds.
Just remember there is heaven and there also is hell...and there are conditions to go with both.
I'm not against having a loving attitude about sharing or in our walk. I think the closer we get to the second coming, the more you will understand when Christians are persecuted and despised how we will have to declare the righteousness of God.

 

[Guest]

I read you. Your focus is against self-righteousness...fine. I still don't accept UNconditional. There are conditions for Christians to be Saved also. We have imputed righteousness...but we also will face the righteous judge for our deeds.

with salvation yes, there are conditions, but with love, there are no conditions. Two different things...and btw, justice and judgment are part of what love is, they are acts of love, flow from a pure undefiled love...

Just remember there is heaven and there also is hell...and there are conditions to go with both.
I'm not against having a loving attitude about sharing or in our walk. I think the closer we get to the second coming, the more you will understand when Christians are persecuted and despised how we will have to declare the righteousness of God.

not sure how this applies to our discussion, please connect it for me, thanks....

 

[justvisiting]

The best examples of how to act as Christians, are right in the book of Acts. Read the testimonies of Peter, Paul, Stephen etc. when they spoke to the unsaved...as well as how correction was applied to believers from the apostles.
What I do believe is that God gives all men a chance...but His love towards unrepentant man, never crosses the boundaries of His righteousness.
What I am being careful of...is the world is heading towards Universalism...God loves us all...no matter what you believe. We are all accepted with Him. It is very dangerous to be absorbed into this group. If you take a look around, the United church, some Presbyterians etc have done this, giving into demands to gay marriage, gay ministers, accepting every religion in the world as being acceptable to Christianity.
We have to accept that God's love does have conditions, even for those that really are Saved.

I know you want to continue on Unconditional. I will leave it at that. These are my opinions.

 

[Guest]

The best examples of how to act as Christians, are right in the book of Acts. Read the testimonies of Peter, Paul, Stephen etc. when they spoke to the unsaved...as well as how correction was applied to believers from the apostles.

first let me say that "examples" of how to act as a christian are nothing if they do not fit the commands of God. God's commands 1. Love the Lord your God and 2. Love your neighbor....Pretty straight forward and clear...therefore if Peter, Paul, Stephen, etc. lives were examples to us how a Christian should live, it was the love in those lives that honored God, the love within those examples that was their righteousness. Without that love, we cannot please God, cannot live a life of righteousness.

What I do believe is that God gives all men a chance...but His love towards unrepentant man, never crosses the boundaries of His righteousness.

I'm not suggesting it does, and I am certainly not sure why you think I am....if righteousness flows out of love, if they are part of each other, then how could we separate them between repentant and non repentant man. Look at it this way, in the world we associate love with emotions (huge problem for biblical love but gives us a wonderful example) If we see love as a warm fuzzy feeling, what happens when we loose a loved one, what happens to the warm fuzzy, because they die, do we stop loving? What of the wayward child, do we stop loving because we are hurt? God's love toward man doesn't stop just because man's unrepentant stubborn nature keeps him from God. The love is still there, still proclaimed, still lived, but instead of warm fuzzies, there is grief. Still love, but now the love is marked by grief not warm fuzzies.

What I am being careful of...is the world is heading towards Universalism...

agreed and agreed this is a problem.

God loves us all...no matter what you believe.

this is the truth of universalism...all deceptions have a grain of truth, or else they would not deceive. when it comes to univeralism, the grain of truth, the kernal we can believe is that God loves us all...the lie is in who is saved out of that love. Salvation is absolutely without question conditional, love is not. So when we distort the truth of love, whether to apply it to conditions or to salvation, we miss God. Keep the kernal throw out the rest.

We are all accepted with Him.

this is the lie, we don't all accept HIm,

It is very dangerous to be absorbed into this group. If you take a look around, the United church, some Presbyterians etc have done this, giving into demands to gay marriage, gay ministers, accepting every religion in the world as being acceptable to Christianity.

agreed, big problem in our world and churches today (small c church )

We have to accept that God's love does have conditions,

here is where we disagree, God's love is not conditional, it is extended to all men no matter. The result of that love is what is conditional. We dare not throw truth out with the lies.

even for those that really are Saved.

explain this one please, so I know if we agree or disagree.

I know you want to continue on Unconditional. I will leave it at that. These are my opinions.

Please clarify the above, thanks, so far we agree on a host more than we disagree on.

 

[justvisiting]

I am not OSAS. These things below state...Conditions...not Unconditional. That's my point.
Are we to love...YES. There are times when we also, are to withdraw from the brother that is willfully living in sin. There is a total perspective here. Conditions that create limitations on love...moreso, even create WRATH. In every scale there are two balances. Love...Wrath. Forbearance...Rejection etc. God is a Spiritual being with demands. We are to accept what He considers as correct thinking...not just one side of things.
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Heb. 10:24 to 10:31
Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Do you think the WRATH of God is the LOVE OF GOD...OBVIOUSLY NOT.
As I said...I believe in conditional love...although His patience, forbearance, grace...is great ...it is not endless. His Spirit will not always strive with man.
The redemption of Christ is God's payment by Himself (His Son). Even that can be denied by God...(if we go too far in denial and trampling on him.)
It's really a concept..you believe UNconditional...I believe Conditional.

 

[justvisiting]

By the way, I looked these up. There are great scriptural promises both for the Saved and unsaved...and I really didn't want to get into the negative to show the balance (love...wrath), but it is there.
Romans 8:37-39
Ephesians 1:4-5
II Timothy 1:9
John 3:17
John 10:9
Acts 2:21
Rom. 10:9-13
I Tim. 6:16-19
Don't think that I believe in being self-righteous. I don't. I do believe in following the FULL teaching of the gospel.

 

[Guest]

I am not OSAS. These things below state...Conditions...not Unconditional. That's my point.
Are we to love...YES. There are times when we also, are to withdraw from the brother that is willfully living in sin.

and where is the command to stop loving them? That is my point, love is so very much more than just a feeling, and emotion, it's even more than an action. God's love is beyond both...so where is the command to stop loving them? Pulling away from someone can very easily be an act of love.

There is a total perspective here.

Conditions that create limitations on love...moreso, even create WRATH.

my kids have been getting on my nerves, at times, though I wish I didn't have to admit it, they answer to my wrath...doesn't mean I stop loving them, just means they felt my wrath.

In every scale there are two balances. Love...Wrath.

the opposite of love is not wrath, but appathy.

Forbearance...Rejection etc. God is a Spiritual being with demands. We are to accept what He considers as correct thinking...not just one side of things.

no problem for what I am telling you.

Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

still don't see where it says He stops loving or we should stop loving...

Heb. 10:24 to 10:31
Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

again, where does it say God stops loving, or that we should...wrath is not the opposite of love. in fact, like the other things we discussed, wrath can be an act of love.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Do you think the WRATH of God is the LOVE OF GOD...OBVIOUSLY NOT.
As I said...I believe in conditional love...

I'm more interested in what God says and you have not shown a single passage that says that God withdraws his love or that we should. As previously stated, the opposite of love is NOT wrath, but rather apathy. This is far from apathy...

although His patience, forbearance, grace...is great ...it is not endless. His Spirit will not always strive with man.

right, He will not always strive with man, that doesn't mean He stops loving man...in fact, it greives God greatly when people refuse His love. It no other verse than "Jesus wept" we know that we can grieve in the midst of great love.

The redemption of Christ is God's payment by Himself (His Son). Even that can be denied by God...(if we go too far in denial and trampling on him.)
It's really a concept..you believe UNconditional...I believe Conditional.

but until you present passages that show conditional love, it's just your opinion. I would love to know where it says in scripture that God's love is conditional.....that is what I am doing here, looking for things I may have missed in scripture on this issue.

 

[Guest]

By the way, I looked these up. There are great scriptural promises both for the Saved and unsaved...and I really didn't want to get into the negative to show the balance (love...wrath), but it is there.
Romans 8:37-39
Ephesians 1:4-5
II Timothy 1:9
John 3:17
John 10:9
Acts 2:21
Rom. 10:9-13
I Tim. 6:16-19
Don't think that I believe in being self-righteous. I don't. I do believe in following the FULL teaching of the gospel.

I have never suggested God's wrath is not present, but the opposite of love is not wrath, wrath can and does exist in the midst of love...Apathy is the opposite of love and that is far from the very nature of God.....it is also far from the very nature of the spirit filled believer...

 

[justvisiting]

I would consider the opposite of Love...Hate (wrath, anger, judgement)...and the opposite of ...apathy (not doing anything about it, or not caring)...sympathy or empathy (related to love.)
As for the what the Spirit filled believer believes.
I guess you might say Paul the apostle was pretty Spirit filled. Only stating deeper truths here.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
AND THE BALANCE...
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
and I'll just leave you with the last word if you want.

 

[justvisiting]

I guess you didn't want the last word so...
May the love and compassion of Christ fill believers to share the gospel, whenever appropriate and possible. amen

 

[Guest]

I would consider the opposite of Love...Hate (wrath, anger, judgement)...and the opposite of ...apathy (not doing anything about it, or not caring)...sympathy or empathy (related to love.)

I guess then we will never come to an agreement....in fact, it's hard to find anyone who things the opposite of love is wrath...but to take it one step further, if love is to think of others as more than oneself...biblical definition of love, the opposite then would be to be selfish/self centered/thinking of ones self over others....and I still would love to see your scriptural evidence that God does this or asks us to do this...

As for the what the Spirit filled believer believes.
I guess you might say Paul the apostle was pretty Spirit filled. Only stating deeper truths here.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
AND THE BALANCE...
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
and I'll just leave you with the last word if you want.

I'm still waiting for a passage that shows that God does not always extend love...see above, if we change the definition to mean anything we want, justifying in scripture is easy. What isn't easy is allowing scripture to interpret scripture. If as scripture defines love, love is putting others before self, then the opposite is anything but wrath. In fact, wrath flows from love. I understand that you are reacting to a herasy in the church, one that is problematic, but that doesn't change the fact that there is nothing in scripture to indicate, that God's love is conditional or that the love HE places in the spirit filled believer is conditional...Love is unconditional...salvation is conditional, it's the plain and simple truth of scripture.

May you enjoy your journey to know more of Love...may you rest in the confidence that God's love is not dependent on your behaviors....