How must we love?

[justvisiting]

May you enjoy your journey to know more of Love...may you rest in the confidence that God's love is not dependent on your behaviors....razzelflabben
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I'll just reply to the first statement. That's a good desire. He loved us while we were yet sinners.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
I am happy that the love of God was given to us...but God's love alone would not Save us from His wrath ...without being justified by Christ's blood.
It's really the imputed righteousness of Christ...who was God's love extended that makes me secure...not just His love. The mercies and grace of God are great, but He has to live up to HIs own righteousness, also. Which is what the payment for sin was all about.

How much we love God does affect how much He loves us... to not acknowledge that is incorrect.
God even calls some His friends. Below are examples of those that were close friends to God.

Dan 10:11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.
Dan 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.

2Ch 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?

Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.
Exo 34:2 And be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai, and present thyself there to me in the top of the mount.
Exo 34:3 And no man shall come up with thee, neither let any man be seen throughout all the mount; neither let the flocks nor herds feed before that mount.
Exo 34:4 And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.
Exo 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
Exo 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Exo 34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

 

[Guest]

May you enjoy your journey to know more of Love...may you rest in the confidence that God's love is not dependent on your behaviors....razzelflabben
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Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:26 am
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I'll just reply to the first statement. That's a good desire. He loved us while we were yet sinners.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
I am happy that the love of God was given to us...but God's love alone would not Save us from His wrath ...without being justified by Christ's blood.

never said it would, never suggested it would...where do you get the idea I did say otherwise....salvation IS conditional, it is Love that is unconditional

It's really the imputed righteousness of Christ...who was God's love extended that makes me secure...not just His love. The mercies and grace of God are great, but He has to live up to HIs own righteousness, also. Which is what the payment for sin was all about.

Are you worried about His living up to His own righteousness? I really am getting confused by what you don't understand about what I am saying....righteousness flows from Love, therefore cannot be separated from it.

How much we love God does affect how much He loves us...

no way!!!!! if that were true, then He could not love us when we were still in sin....see the verse above, in that while we were yet sinners love was extended and it was the love beyond what this world can understand. God's love is unconditional as the passage above testifies to us.

to not acknowledge that is incorrect.
God even calls some His friends. Below are examples of those that were close friends to God.

why does he call them friends????? It's right in the scripture...who is called a friend and how do they earn the priveledge of being a friend of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?

 

[justvisiting]

After having stated the previous. We do rest in the Beloved (Christ) who is our intercessor, but to make a statement like...how we live does not affect God's love toward's us...is abominable.
There is a huge difference between the love of God towards Moses or Daniel or Abraham or Elijah, versus someone that is ready to deny the faith.
God's love is merciful and enduring. That does not mean He is pleased with those that are nigh unto faithless and cursing(even believers.) It's very much the same as you or I. We have good friends and those we really almost would not have as friends.
Paul said the same thing of those that were his close friends, versus those that he even told believers to boot out of the church.
Those are the conditions of my friendships also...or if you would have it...my love towards them.

 

[Guest]

After having stated the previous. We do rest in the Beloved (Christ) who is our intercessor, but to make a statement like...how we live does not affect God's love toward's us...is abominable.
There is a huge difference between the love of God towards Moses or Daniel or Abraham or Elijah, versus someone that is ready to deny the faith.

same love, different results, not sure why you can't see the difference, if I knew what you weren't understanding about my words, I would better be able to explain it in a way that makes sense to you....the best I can figure is that you still don't understand what biblical love really is...but that is purely a guess.

God's love is merciful and enduring. That does not mean He is pleased with those that are nigh unto faithless and cursing(even believers.)

agreed.

It's very much the same as you or I. We have good friends and those we really almost would not have as friends.

right, so who then does God call friend???? Are your friends the only ones you love?????

Paul said the same thing of those that were his close friends, versus those that he even told believers to boot out of the church.

Doesn't change love...I have 5 kids, sometimes they meet my wrath, sometimes my comforting side, but I never stop loving them even in the midst of punishing them, or crying over their defiance.

Those are the conditions of my friendships also...or if you would have it...my love towards them.

So you are not living as a believer????? I don't understand....God commands us to love even our enemies...see the good samaritan, the neighbor was the enemy, so if we only love our friends, what are we??? John 15: 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17These things I command you, that ye love one another.

18If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Matt. 5:40And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[justvisiting]

I know what your tac is. What I am getting at...is there are degrees of love, that God shows. He loves the faithful and those that walk right...MORE...than the unbelieving and those that hate Him.
In fact those that once believed (were loved of God), but denied the faith and have crucified to themselves the Son of God anew (are cursed) and therefore...not loved of God at all. It's over for them.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Those are conditions...aren't they?

 

[Guest]

I know what your tac is.

tac???? Not following....

What I am getting at...is there are degrees of love, that God shows.

Where is that written? Different loves, but not different degrees....

He loves the faithful and those that walk right...

yep for as far as you go with it...

MORE...than the unbelieving and those that hate Him.

nope, His love is the same, the manifestation of that love is different...just as the manifestation of my love for my children is the different when they obey then when they don't.

In fact those that once believed (were loved of God), but denied the faith and have crucified to themselves the Son of God anew (are cursed) and therefore...not loved of God at all.

HUMMMMM....justice and judgement both flow our of love, so if God is being a righteous, just, judge, it is because of His love, rather than a loss of love. If love didn't exist, God could neither be just or righteous.

It's over for them.

that's true enough.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Those are conditions...aren't they?

Those are the conditions of salvation, not love. Two different things that you seem to insist are the same thing, which is why I suggest you don't really understand what biblical love is...

 

[Godfrey]

If God loved the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, He had a funny way of showing it.

 

[JoJo]

Godfrey, have you read Genesis 18? It wasn't like God didn't consider sparing the cities.

 

[justvisiting]

It's a good thing there was a certain well liked saint named Abraham to intercede...for even Lot's sake.
I do believe God has a love for mankind...but His Spirit will not alway strive with man.
He destroyed the world with a flood also. Sodom and Gomorrah. He even cast off Israel at one point because of their rebelliousness.
There is a point where He says...enough is enough...even with those that once believed, but now trample Him underfoot.
I will leave those judgements to Him.
Instead, I think my prayer should be...may I do those things that are pleasing to you...that I might grow in faith and in my walk. I really think it is possible to make God happier about us...because we are cleaning up our minds and hearts and walking closer with Him. I can certainly tell the difference between grieving the Spirit...and being blessed by Him.
and the statement was made we should love our enemies...a tough one...but it's in there.
I however, am not going to go so far as to assist my enemies, in causing trouble. That I am sure no one believes. I don't believe that means we have to bend over backwards and let them walk on us either, or to abuse what we hold dear.

 

[Guest]

If God loved the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, He had a funny way of showing it.

judgment and justice can only exist in love, so yes, it was an act of love....

 

[Guest]

It's a good thing there was a certain well liked saint named Abraham to intercede...for even Lot's sake.
I do believe God has a love for mankind...but His Spirit will not alway strive with man.

right on

He destroyed the world with a flood also. Sodom and Gomorrah. He even cast off Israel at one point because of their rebelliousness.

an act of justice, a justice that flows out of love.

There is a point where He says...enough is enough...even with those that once believed, but now trample Him underfoot.

right on

I will leave those judgements to Him.

wisdom in those words

Instead, I think my prayer should be...may I do those things that are pleasing to you...that I might grow in faith and in my walk. I really think it is possible to make God happier about us...

happier is not the same thing as love....

because we are cleaning up our minds and hearts and walking closer with Him. I can certainly tell the difference between grieving the Spirit...and being blessed by Him.

the Spirit is truly awesome

and the statement was made we should love our enemies...a tough one...but it's in there.
I however, am not going to go so far as to assist my enemies, in causing trouble.

that would not be love if you did...true love is not an enabler as we see with God's judgement...

That I am sure no one believes. I don't believe that means we have to bend over backwards and let them walk on us either, or to abuse what we hold dear.

amen

 

[Guest]

Tons of people in this world see love as this emotional feel good "stuff" but love is so very different from that emotional gobbledygook we like and enjoy so much. That is not to say that love cannot make us feel good, but rather that sometimes love hurts. Love is what allows us to know and exercise justice, patience, grace, forgiveness, sorrow, grief, endurance, etc. Without love none of these things would exist. When we look at scripture and explore the various pictures we have of love, and compare those pictures with the study and exploration of I Cor. 13, we begin to see that love is so much more than an emotional response to anyone or anything, it is far beyond an action response to someone or something. It is a love that is not only unconditional but eternal, not only patience but full of grace, it is painful and soothing. Love, like God is not just an either/or proposition, but also a both/and. Love is beyond our understanding and yet we are to live in it and allow it to flow through us and in the power of the HS within, we can love as Christ loved, even to death for our enemies. But a love like this must also be righteous, just, merciful, painful, and enduring. This love is more than a human is capable without the HS or it would not be the mark of the follower of Christ.

 

[Godfrey]

Godfrey, have you read Genesis 18? It wasn't like God didn't consider sparing the cities.

Hi, Jojo. Yes, indeed, but in the final analysis He didn’t.

This is a subject I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, ever since I heard a great man of God, Colin Urquhart, say that John 3.16 doesn’t mean what people think it does – and that led me to a book by David Pawson,Is John 3.16 the Gospel?, also available as MP3 which sets out the same point of view.

An unconditional aspect of God’s love for us is seen at the cross. It is unconditional in that Christ died for all men, whether they want it or not. His blood is the sacrifice for all sins. Equally importantly, just as all men are born ‘in Adam’, i.e., are not given the choice of being born a sinner or not, just so all men die ‘in Christ’. What we are given the choice about is whether or not we avail ourselves of God’s mercy. If we do, we enter into His love; if we don’t, we don’t. Whether or not we are the objects of His love is conditional on our decision.

The cross is a one-off, completed act. When John 3.16 says ‘God loved’, it uses the aorist tense – a one-off, completed action. It doesn’t say ‘God loves’. God loved me – in the agape sense that He saw a need and acted to meet it – and sent His Son to die for me. He didn’t love me in the sense that He thought I was a diamond geezer; quite the opposite: I was an object of wrath. And God didn’t love me so much that He sent His Son to die for me: that little word ‘so’ really means ‘in the same way’. Now I am in His love, praise God, but that state is conditional on obedience:

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love – John 15.10 NIV

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. – Rom.11.22 NIV

 

[Guest]

Godfrey, have you read Genesis 18? It wasn't like God didn't consider sparing the cities.

Hi, Jojo. Yes, indeed, but in the final analysis He didn’t.

This is a subject I’ve been thinking about a lot lately, ever since I heard a great man of God, Colin Urquhart, say that John 3.16 doesn’t mean what people think it does – and that led me to a book by David Pawson,Is John 3.16 the Gospel?, also available as MP3 which sets out the same point of view.

An unconditional aspect of God’s love for us is seen at the cross. It is unconditional in that Christ died for all men, whether they want it or not. His blood is the sacrifice for all sins. Equally importantly, just as all men are born ‘in Adam’, i.e., are not given the choice of being born a sinner or not, just so all men die ‘in Christ’. What we are given the choice about is whether or not we avail ourselves of God’s mercy. If we do, we enter into His love; if we don’t, we don’t. Whether or not we are the objects of His love is conditional on our decision.

The cross is a one-off, completed act. When John 3.16 says ‘God loved’, it uses the aorist tense – a one-off, completed action. It doesn’t say ‘God loves’. God loved me – in the agape sense that He saw a need and acted to meet it – and sent His Son to die for me. He didn’t love me in the sense that He thought I was a diamond geezer; quite the opposite: I was an object of wrath. And God didn’t love me so much that He sent His Son to die for me: that little word ‘so’ really means ‘in the same way’. Now I am in His love, praise God, but that state is conditional on obedience:

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love – John 15.10 NIV

[quote:3ku9os39]Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. – Rom.11.22 NIV

[/quote:3ku9os39]what conditions did God place on your being loved? Not on your accepting His love, not on how His love is manifest upon you, etc. In fact, love that is conditional isn't love at all, read and study I Cor. 13...if conditions apply, it is not love at all. It really seems to me that many in this world have no idea what biblical love is...

 

[Godfrey]

what conditions did God place on your being loved? Not on your accepting His love, not on how His love is manifest upon you, etc. In fact, love that is conditional isn't love at all, read and study I Cor. 13...if conditions apply, it is not love at all. It really seems to me that many in this world have no idea what biblical love is...

He placed no conditions at all on His loving me by sending Jesus. Now I am in His love, not because of works, but because I am in Christ and Christ in me. He has made me acceptable in the Beloved by making me a new creation. And the condition of my being in this state is that I obeyed His commands: Repent and believe. You must be born again. And my remaining in that love is also conditional:

He who loves me will be loved by my Father – John 14.21 NIV

If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him – John 14.23 NIV

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love - John 15.10 NIV

You are my friends if you do what I command. - John 15.14 NIV

It’s not ‘My Father loves everyone unconditionally,’ it’s ‘My Father loves those who love Me and show it by obeying Me.’

It really seems to me that many in this world have no idea what biblical love is...

True. But you know what? All those quotes from John were addressed to the disciples. Jesus didn’t talk to the world about God’s love. Nor did the early church: there isn’t a single instance in Acts of the church preaching about God’s love to the world.

 

[Guest]

what conditions did God place on your being loved? Not on your accepting His love, not on how His love is manifest upon you, etc. In fact, love that is conditional isn't love at all, read and study I Cor. 13...if conditions apply, it is not love at all. It really seems to me that many in this world have no idea what biblical love is...

He placed no conditions at all on His loving me by sending Jesus. Now I am in His love, not because of works, but because I am in Christ and Christ in me. He has made me acceptable in the Beloved by making me a new creation. And the condition of my being in this state is that I obeyed His commands: Repent and believe. You must be born again. And my remaining in that love is also conditional:

rock on dude... Love is unconditional, salvation/living in that love is conditional...

[quote:1gzaptkx]He who loves me will be loved by my Father – John 14.21 NIV

If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him – John 14.23 NIV

btw, this is also what we do to be called friends, we obey

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love - John 15.10 NIV

You are my friends if you do what I command. - John 15.14 NIV

see...
It’s not ‘My Father loves everyone unconditionally,’ it’s ‘My Father loves those who love Me and show it by obeying Me.’
[/quote:1gzaptkx] ???? God loves unconditionally, but only on certain conditions???? Again, I think you are misunderstanding what love is...don't confuse love with how love is manifest in different people and situations.

[quote:1gzaptkx]It really seems to me that many in this world have no idea what biblical love is...

True. But you know what? All those quotes from John were addressed to the disciples. Jesus didn’t talk to the world about God’s love. Nor did the early church: there isn’t a single instance in Acts of the church preaching about God’s love to the world.[/quote:1gzaptkx]Try again, the entire bible is God's message of Love to a lost and dieing world. That is what Christ preached, God's love for a fallen man.

 

[Godfrey]

God can hate as well as love. A year ago I'd have said, 'God hates the sin but loves the sinner.' But that isn't scriptural: God can hate sinners:

(Deu 22:5 NIV) A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.

(Deu 25:16 NIV) For the LORD your God detests anyone who does these things, anyone who deals dishonestly.

(Psa 5:5 NIV) The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

(Psa 11:5 NIV) The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

(Prov 3:32 NIV) for the LORD detests a perverse man but takes the upright into his confidence.

(Prov 11:20 NIV) The LORD detests men of perverse heart but he delights in those whose ways are blameless.

(Prov 16:5 NIV) The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

Including those who break covenant with Him:

(Jer 12:8 NIV) My inheritance has become to me like a lion in the forest. She roars at me; therefore I hate her.

 

[Guest]

God can hate as well as love. A year ago I'd have said, 'God hates the sin but loves the sinner.' But that isn't scriptural: God can hate sinners:

(Deu 22:5 NIV) A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.

(Deu 25:16 NIV) For the LORD your God detests anyone who does these things, anyone who deals dishonestly.

(Psa 5:5 NIV) The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

(Psa 11:5 NIV) The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

(Prov 3:32 NIV) for the LORD detests a perverse man but takes the upright into his confidence.

(Prov 11:20 NIV) The LORD detests men of perverse heart but he delights in those whose ways are blameless.

(Prov 16:5 NIV) The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.

Including those who break covenant with Him:

[quote:1ft5aun1](Jer 12:8 NIV) My inheritance has become to me like a lion in the forest. She roars at me; therefore I hate her.

[/quote:1ft5aun1]
Hate is not the opposite of Love. Hate, especially as it relates to God is a form of judgment and in God's case justice. We have already talked about this...it is true that God detests those who lead others astray, but that doesn't stop His love...Rom 8: 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[j] who[k] have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us allâ€â€how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who diedâ€â€more than that, who was raised to lifeâ€â€is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."[l] 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Godfrey]

Hate is not the opposite of Love.

Well, the word in Jer.12.2 (Strong's 8130) usually bears the normal meaning in other contexts.

For the rest, yes, that is all scriptural, but it was and is addressed to believers - you can't take it as applying to the whole human race.

 

[Guest]

Hate is not the opposite of Love.

Well, the word in Jer.12.2 (Strong's 8130) usually bears the normal meaning in other contexts.

now not to get whatever, but I looked up Jer. 12:2 in strongs, here is what I found... Thou hast planted 5193 them, yea, they have taken root 8327 : they grow 3212 , yea, they bring forth 6213 fruit 6529: thou [art] near 7138 in their mouth 6310, and far from 7350 their reins 3629.

8130 isn't even listed in that verse, so I looked at the previous and following and again, it wasn't listed. Therefore I am neither sure of your point nor how you are evidencing that point in scripture, so let me refer back to the quoted comment about love and hate not being the opposites. If we study love in scripture we discover very quickly that love is not what we normally think of. In fact, it is very different, and in most of us now know that there are different loves just listed in the lang. of the bible. We have philia love, agape love, etc. Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love with this discussion...John 3:16 http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... =G25&t=KJV

Further compare this to Rom. 8:35 http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... =G26&t=KJV Further notice that the same word is used in I Cor. 13...agape love http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... =G26&t=KJV

Thus all three passages use the same definition for Love. A definition that varies in the greek, but we have no words to seperate it's meaning. So when we talk about biblical love, the first thing we must do is understand the difference between the different loves and which is being applied. Next, we need to see what identifies that love, for that we look at I Cor. 13, piece by piece part by part. Only then do we get a picture of what love God is talking about here, we also need to add... 7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

If you really want to study it, see this reference http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3404&t=KJV and here, where a word study shows this to be a brother in Christ, not advocating hating others, just looking at what the text really says.... http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... =G80&t=KJV

So lets look at God's hatred...let's compare Luke 14:25-27 (King James Version)

25And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,

26If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3404&t=KJV
to Luke 16:12-14 (King James Version)

12And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

13No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

14And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 3404&t=KJV
to this, of God's hate Psalm 5:5 (King James Version)

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 8130&t=KJV

Psalm 11:5 (King James Version)

5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
(had to cut some url's so I'll cut some that are identical to what is already stated.)

But before we move from this discussion, let's take a quick look at one more word used in scripture and one that you referenced us to...
Proverbs 11:20 (King James Version)

20They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 8441&t=KJV

No interpretation needed, love is unconditional what is conditional is the way that love is manifest in our lives.

For the rest, yes, that is all scriptural, but it was and is addressed to believers - you can't take it as applying to the whole human race.

Bravo, but John 3:16 does apply to all of the human race.