How old do you have to be to be the salt of the earth or let your light shine?

[Michael74]

We don't hold family and marriage to the high regard that God does and as a result we are falling apart as a society.

Sort of a did the chicken or egg come first type of question. Why don't people have high regard for God's Word? One possibility, the public school system has been telling children that the Bible is a myth. 1 hour of Sunday school is trying to compete with 40 hours of public school, plus homework, plus time spent playing with other children raised by the public school system. Its a mismatch.

 

[brother Paul]

I concur, but the same thing can hold true for even Sunday school, so we must always be proactive when it comes to our children's education, regardless of where they are getting it.

Exactly...if we as parents let the world do all the educating (and indoctrinating) we have to take some responsibility for that. Letting your kids see you pray and go to God and thank Him for blessings and getting us through trials is more impacting than many people think. We are like gods to them...they trust us..and they will learn more from what we do than what we say...also when they have concerns or questions praying with them and telling them what Jesus might say or do...

 

[Edward]

There's a lot to consider with a decision like this so it makes a wonderful topic. Quite a few great points are being made here on both sides of the question, both pro and con.

I think perhaps one of the biggest factors to making the right decision about it has been made by Stan. Being proactive with the children. Very very proactive, especially if they are to be in the public school system. point well taken about training before being sent into battle, however, as we all know, there is no experience like hands on experience, so to speak.

A lot of interest and being proactive as the child goes through public school is the key. Yes of course the child will hear things and see things that will influence their development, but daily 'debriefings' after school would be necessary I think to counter the bad info and influences. Talking over their day to decode the crap and to give the child the tools that he would need to counter and to progress on the godly path.

they are never too young to begin training them in the way that they should go. Do not under-estimate your children my brothers and sisters. Children soak up information like a sponge when they are young so it would be imperative to plant those seeds daily. They will learn it. If this is done consistently then there is no reason that one would expect for the child to be ruined by the influences of the public school system, and in fact, could very well learn at a faster pace than if they were not in the thick of it. Solely because of the real world experiences that they will be exposed to there.

If this is done, then one could reasonably expect that the child WILL have a hard time of it. They will be spiritually attacked, of course, so one would have to be consistent, and to pray/keep their faith that the Lord will not put on the child more than they can bear.

I believe that the end result would be having a child whose light shines very brightly. They would not have to evangelize, this is training, so the focus would be more on developing a relationship with the Lord, and learning to walk with God, and to resist temptation, Their social skills would develop good and their spiritual awareness would likely be off the chart.

 

[Stan1953]

Why do we send our soldiers to boot camp instead of sending them directly to war? Soldiers in the military forces need training before they are sent into battle. Should we send our kids into spiritual battle before they are trained?

I understand the analogy but in this case it doesn't apply. I'm talking about being a light/salt, not doing battle. We don't battle flesh and blood, we battle spiritual forces.

 

[jasonc]

I understand the analogy but in this case it doesn't apply. I'm talking about being a light/salt, not doing battle. We don't battle flesh and blood, we battle spiritual forces.

it applies far more then you think. would think, would you allow your kids to go to a school were drugs are sold by the kids to each other and all who want them? I know that it goes on here. my grandson has mentioned it. sixth graders doing that, not some drug pusher adult teacher but kids getting it. sure they are caught but if they aren't, what the parent to do either tell or leave the school. telling would be good but again for each one you remove another takes it place. its sad. im not saying that the local one is like that but im sure there are schools like that in large cities.

 

[Stan1953]

it applies far more then you think. would think, would you allow your kids to go to a school were drugs are sold by the kids to each other and all who want them? I know that it goes on here. my grandson has mentioned it. sixth graders doing that, not some drug pusher adult teacher but kids getting it. sure they are caught but if they aren't, what the parent to do either tell or leave the school. telling would be good but again for each one you remove another takes it place. its sad. im not saying that the local one is like that but im sure there are schools like that in large cities.

No doubt stuff like this happens, but imagine how bad it could get without any salt/light in that school. We either trust God or we don't. Does it really matter with what we trust Him?

 

[jasonc]

No doubt stuff like this happens, but imagine how bad it could get without any salt/light in that school. We either trust God or we don't. Does it really matter with what we trust Him?

an 8 year old shouldn't be exposed to that. I know that they are because of the slums. I live in the worst area or one of them in my county and have watched in other bad areas swat take down the father of the three year old in front of the street playing for dealing drugs. but if one is able. should then avoid living there? what is the difference. a child often doesn't have good support at times to be that strong unless the parents desire them to be that strong if so then its up to them. I lean towards homeschooling I can posts links to parents being jailed. for saying not going to teach my son that sex crap. I will teach him about the bird or the bees. or the teacher telling the 4th grader in florida where he was on break not to read his bible.

 

[jasonc]

http://www.truthandaction.org/police-state-man-arrested-speaking-turn-school-meeting/

 

[WIP]

I don't recall ever being taught in school that God was a myth. In fact it would be illegal in the U.S. for a teacher or school system to teach that or even suggest it.

The only thing in fact that I ever do recall about a religious myth was the subject of mythology.

I think we sell ourselves short. Spending a few hours a day learning about mathematics, government, history, grammar, English, literature, and science is hardly a lesson in satanic cult. We parents however send or kids to the government financed daycare every day so we can concentrate on earning more money, coming home tired, and ignoring them the rest of the day when we should be spending valuable time with them instead. I am willing to bet that if we spend one hour of quality time interacting with our kids every day there would be nothing the school system could do to counteract our teaching. Problem is we are too busy and don't care enough to be the parents to the children we brought into the world.

We allow them to run wild with few limits or responsibility with almost zero respect for authority, others, or themselves. As a society we fail our children.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

how old do you have to be.... to be ... salt ... or ... light .... ?

i can think of at least 2(in the Bible)* who were salt and light already the day they were born, and they endured to the end of their earthly life .

i can think of very few percentage-wise i've known in my life in the untied states who were salt and light ever in their life.
(a remnant) (ekklesia) (born again) (faithful) ('the church') (perhaps for a different thread as it's not the op of this one)

so , the answer to the question op may be, one day old.

corrie ten boom became salt and light at 5 years old, and remained so to the end of her life on earth.

*(in the Bible) Yeshua. John the immerser. (may well be others also).

 

[Stan1953]

an 8 year old shouldn't be exposed to that. I know that they are because of the slums. I live in the worst area or one of them in my county and have watched in other bad areas swat take down the father of the three year old in front of the street playing for dealing drugs. but if one is able. should then avoid living there? what is the difference. a child often doesn't have good support at times to be that strong unless the parents desire them to be that strong if so then its up to them. I lean towards homeschooling I can posts links to parents being jailed. for saying not going to teach my son that sex crap. I will teach him about the bird or the bees. or the teacher telling the 4th grader in florida where he was on break not to read his bible.

Please try to keep in mind the context of my OP and what we are dealing with here. IMO it's not kosher to bring up extreme exceptions.

 

[Stan1953]

how old do you have to be.... to be ... salt ... or ... light .... ?

i can think of at least 2(in the Bible)* who were salt and light already the day they were born, and they endured to the end of their earthly life .

i can think of very few percentage-wise i've known in my life in the untied states who were salt and light ever in their life.
(a remnant) (ekklesia) (born again) (faithful) ('the church') (perhaps for a different thread as it's not the op of this one)

so , the answer to the question op may be, one day old.

corrie ten boom became salt and light at 5 years old, and remained so to the end of her life on earth.

*(in the Bible) Yeshua. John the immerser. (may well be others also).

True, but can we please keep it in the perspective of the OP?
Thanks

 

[Stan1953]

I don't recall ever being taught in school that God was a myth. In fact it would be illegal in the U.S. for a teacher or school system to teach that or even suggest it.

The only thing in fact that I ever do recall about a religious myth was the subject of mythology.

I think we sell ourselves short. Spending a few hours a day learning about mathematics, government, history, grammar, English, literature, and science is hardly a lesson in satanic cult. We parents however send or kids to the government financed daycare every day so we can concentrate on earning more money, coming home tired, and ignoring them the rest of the day when we should be spending valuable time with them instead. I am willing to bet that if we spend one hour of quality time interacting with our kids every day there would be nothing the school system could do to counteract our teaching. Problem is we are too busy and don't care enough to be the parents to the children we brought into the world.

We allow them to run wild with few limits or responsibility with almost zero respect for authority, others, or themselves. As a society we fail our children.

ALL to true, but again let's also realize that ALL Christian parents are not like this. I know it's easy to present extremes but I would like to deal in real life situations.

 

[Michael74]

I don't recall ever being taught in school that God was a myth.

They do it in a round about way, such as by teaching that evolution eliminates the need for a Creator. The Bible teaches intelligent design.

Cultural relativism is also unofficially taught in some venues. That is, they teach that all belief systems are equally valid.

More subtly, teachers tend to try and teach their moral code to their students. That is, how students should treat each other in class, and outside class. If the teacher happens to be an unbeliever...

 

[Stan1953]

and a quick note to point out that ALL my kids knew what they were going to face in school about evolution before they learned it and knew that it was ONLY a man-made theory. Part of it was our parenting and the other was what we had taught them about how God created us and the universe. God's word NEVER returns to Him void. Is 55:11 (NIV)

 

[WIP]

They do it in a round about way, such as by teaching that evolution eliminates the need for a Creator. The Bible teaches intelligent design.

I never took evolution to be an alternative to creation necessarily. The way I always understood evolution was the same way I understood mathematics, electron theory, etc. That is, it is man's way of explaining the world around us. It is not necessarily man's attempt to defy God. For example, we study our atmosphere and define theories about how it works. We theorize that water evaporates from the land and sea resulting in water vapor, which rises to the upper atmosphere where it cools and condenses to form clouds of water droplets. Eventually these water droplets congregate enough and grow large enough that gravity takes over and they fall to the earth as water. That is a scientific explanation of why it rains. But does it have to mean that because science is providing a human explanation that science is defying God? Not necessarily.

Consider the trinity. It is nearly impossible for man to discuss and/or explain what the trinity really is without a fight ensuing. Why is that? Because when we try to explain it we are trying to explain Godly things using human understanding.

Cultural relativism is also unofficially taught in some venues. That is, they teach that all belief systems are equally valid.

I don't recall ever hearing a teacher suggest or teach this. Yes, we looked at some "ancient" religious beliefs such as Greek mythology or Egyptian hieroglyphics or American Indian paintings but it was never taught to be either godly or ungodly. It was just brought up as a lesson in historical religious beliefs and nothing more.

If we as parents really cared so much about what our kids were taught, we would take an active role in their education and know what they are studying and thereby provide our kids with our own influence. But this is not the normal way we do things. We send our kids to school (what I refer to as daycare) and expect the school system to do it all. Even the school systems almost demand that we parents get involved but we parents are too lazy and busy with our own lives to do so. I can't remember how many times our school teachers and administration promoted parental involvement with our children's education. Go to a school board meeting and see how many parents attend. The answer to that question will speak volumes.

More subtly, teachers tend to try and teach their moral code to their students. That is, how students should treat each other in class, and outside class. If the teacher happens to be an unbeliever...

I'm not quite sure what moral code you're talking about that would not be taught by society in general. Examples of this is same sex relationships, sexuality outside of marriage, etc. Our children are exposed to these things far more relevantly on the street and on the other "teacher" (the television) than they are in school. In school they spend 45 minutes to an hour in class learning about mathematics, government, science, English, literature, history, among others. The school curriculum does not include teaching about morality. That is taught in the home but what are they learning in the home?

In the home they are learning about infidelity, selfishness, drunkenness, drug abuse, lack of commitment and broken marriages (about 50% end in divorce), and irresponsibility. In addition to half of our marriages ending in divorce, nearly half of the children born are illegitimate, meaning the parents weren't married at all. This doesn't leave very many children living in strong solid families does it? According to an article I found from the National Review dated October, 2012....
72.3 percent of non-Hispanic blacks are now born out-of-wedlock;
66.2 percent of American Indians/Alaska Natives;
53.3 percent of Hispanics;
29.1 percent of non-Hispanic whites;
17.2 percent of Asians/Pacific Islanders.
40.7 percent overall: a disaster.

Look around. What percentage of children do you suppose live in a two parent family that do not have step brothers or sisters they are or are not aware of? My guess is that percentage is extremely low and becoming a very rare commodity indeed.

Like we do with everything else in today's society I am of the opinion that we try very hard to pass the blame on to someone else rather than own up to our own responsibility. "It's not my fault" seems to be the catch phrase of our times. The government doesn't do enough. The government needs to take care of me. The government is teaching my children incorrectly. The government, the government, the government....

But what are we doing?

 

[WIP]

How old do you have to be to be the salt of the earth or let your light shine?
I've been thinking about this question and a thought had come to mind a couple times.

Matthew 18:
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them,
3 and said,“Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

Matthew 19:
13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.

Mark 9:
33 Then He came to Capernaum. And when He was in the house He asked them, “What was it you disputed among yourselves on the road?”
34 But they kept silent, for on the road they had disputed among themselves who would be the greatest.
35 And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, “If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.”
36 Then He took a little child and set him in the midst of them. And when He had taken him in His arms, He said to them,
37 “Whoever receives one of these little children in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me, receives not Me but Him who sent Me.”

Mark 10:
13 Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them.
14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.
15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Luke 9:
46 Then a dispute arose among them as to which of them would be greatest.
47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by Him,
48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me. For he who is least among you all will be great.”

Luke 18:
15 Then they also brought infants to Him that He might touch them; but when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them to Him and said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

 

[Michael74]

school (what I refer to as daycare) and expect the school system to do it all.

Free babysitting..

40.7 percent overall: a disaster.

Okay, but how did it get that way? One reason is that the experiment with raising the nation's children via free babysitters has not worked out, and the experiment should not continue.

...own up to our own responsibility.

Yes, vote it out, and go back to the tried and true way our ancestors were raised. Parents should take responsibility for raising their own children, and do it right. Enough with letting strangers raise them.

...television...

Certainly parents should determine what their children watch on television. It is the parents' responsibility. They have parental controls on televisions and computers, use them. Parents should also monitor who their children associate with, and what their character is. Parents should monitor their children for signs of drug use, and have them tested if necessary. Parents take responsibility already.

 

[WIP]

Agreed, however when I mentioned the drug abuse, drunkenness, debauchery, and other things I wasn't referring to what the children are doing. I was referring to the parents. We set the example and they learn from us. When our children are allowed to run free with no responsibility and no direction they will follow the direction of their teaching....ergo, the world outside the home.

I wonder....has there been any study on the impact of parents teaching their children about sex vs. the impact of the school system doing it? I'm betting that when the parents do the teaching (with Christian background) the children tend to follow the parents' teaching more often than the school's teaching. In other words, we have more influence on our children than we would like to admit. But as I've already mentioned, we don't take an active role and prefer to pass the buck so-to-speak.

 

[Michael74]

That is a scientific explanation of why it rains. But does it have to mean that because science is providing a human explanation that science is defying God? Not necessarily

Not necessarily, but teachers can promote their own agenda. I remember my high school chemistry teacher expounding on the 2nd law of thermodynamics. He stated that it proves that the universe would persist for billions of years, slowly becoming more random instead of ordered.

This directly contradicts what the Bible says about end times. He did not directly say that Christianity was a myth, but anyone who accepted his statement would be logically be obligated to consider the Bible to be a myth.

Maybe you went to a nice Bible belt school in the suburbs that hired a lot of Christians as teachers. Things are not always so roseate in many inner city schools. The conditions in some schools are astonishing. Don't even ask the agenda that many students there promote.