guibox said:
Orthodox Christian said:
Paul disagrees with you.
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Not that the Sabbath isn't the Sabbath, but to say that one is disobedient to not keep Sabbath is clearly a sentiment which eschews NT sensibility in favor of OT canon.
You obviously haven't really read Romans 14. If you did you'd see that Paul is not talking about the seventh day sabbath. Paul talks about eating, drinking, and holy days. Things the strict Jewish rituals were expecting Gentiles to follow. Nowhere in the Torah is strict vegetarianism, total abstinence or obligatory fasting and feasting required (things Paul was speaking against in this chapter).
Do you honestly think Paul was reducing Pentecost, Sabbath and Passover to nothing more than 'personal preference'? Where is the controversy over what would be considered such a blasphemous move?
You cannot read the Sabbath into this verse as the issue was completely different. The issue was over the numerous feast days and holy days that Jews were following.
Most people want to ignore the context of these chapters and the issues Paul was dealing with to jump on the 'do away with the Sabbath' bandwagon.
Wanting it to be that way so badly doesn't make it so.
I ask one simple question...prove it from the Bible and the Bible alone.
I would also add that the Old Testament does not distinguish IN TERMS OF HOLINESS among (1) yearly festival sabbaths, (2) monthly (new moon) festival sabbaths, and (3) the weekly *festival sabbath. And so, I would agree that that Romans 14 INCLUDES -- but does not LIMIT its message to -- the yearly festival sabbaths.
*The weekly sabbath was NO LESS a festival (feast day) than any of the others. It was, for instance, considered a sin to fast on the sabbath, ANY sabbath (weekly, monthly or yearly). You had to fast on another day.
My reasons for this conclusion:
1. Paul would have no motive to limit his instruction to the yearly sabbaths as distinguished (cut off) from the others. For, IN NO INSTANCE does the Old Testament (the only "Scripture" of Paul's day) distinguish among them in terms of holiness -- need to rest and "to not do ANY work." They are "all of a piece," and if one goes, they ALL go. Therefore, in an extremely important sense, Paul here is giving them their due "sendoff."
2. The yearly and monthly sabbaths were never an issue APART from the weekly sabbath. Nor apart from circumcision, or clean v. unclean meats, for that matter. Not to mention the full 613 laws, such as "no wearing a cloak of mixed linen and wool [Deuteronomy 22:11]." It was "the whole ball of wax," "the whole enchilada," "the whole nine yards" that was at issue, nothing less.
You either kept the whole "law of 613 laws" as a way to salvation or you considered all 613 as fulfilled in Christ.
3. Romans 14 is interesting in that there Paul allowed for people to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy, the new moon Sabbath days holy, and the yearly festival Sabbath days holy.
Conversely you could keep the first day holy, which was also considered the Resurrection day and the "Lord's day," SDA arguments to the contrary notwithstanding (considering the usage of the term "the Lord's day" in the writings of the early church fathers, who were NOT, incidentally, Roman Catholics).
Or you could keep all 7 days holy, all 30-31 days of the month holy (Roman calendar, Hebrew calendar, who cares?), and all 365 days of the year holy.
Do you see how clever Paul was (in the Spirit)? He effectively destroyed the seventh-day Sabbath AS A TEST of righteousness by ALLOWING Jewish Christians (the SDAs of his time) to keep it. At the same time he effectively DENIED them the right to IMPOSE the weekly Sabbath (along with the monthly and yearly Sabbaths) on the Gentile Christians in Rome and, indeed, all over the Empire.
In order to argue as my SDA friends do, one has to be totally ignorant of the contextual evidence as well as the circumstantial evidence (political, economic, social, racial, religious, educational climate, etc.) of the time and place. Plus to accommodate such SDA reasoning -- and by NO means do all SDAs reason this way -- one has to twist one's brain into a pretzel.
So with that said...
Instead of listening to Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, hear Paul (Romans 14:5,6 NIV):
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One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day [Sunday, for instance] as special, does so to the Lord.
^^^^^^^^^^^