How to get to Heaven! (According to Jesus)

[Soma-Sight]

How to Get to Heaven (According to Jesus !)



Dear brothers and sisters,


Many people in the Gospel asked that very same question
directly to Jesus and let's see what the reply was;


"And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed
must I do, to have eternal life?"


"And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One
there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the
commandments." Matthew 19:16-17


Here according to Jesus, to enter Heaven, we follow the
commandments.


A question to the Christians is: why would Jesus mislead this man
if the 'only way to heaven was through the blood of Jesus'?


Was Jesus misleading this man by teaching that Works will open the
Gates of Heaven?


"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for
theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:10


Here Jesus says that Martyrs will go to Heaven, those who die and
suffer for a good cause will go to Heaven.


Is Jesus again being misleading since all Christians claim that the one
and only way to Heaven is through the blood of Jesus as the church
teaches.


Here again a Lawyer asked the Important Question, How to enter
Heaven;


And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying,
"Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"


Jesus said "What is written in the law? How do
you read?"


And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your
heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all
your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."


And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will
live." Luke 10:25-28


The lawyer asked the teacher Jesus how to have eternal life and
Jesus replied "Read"... "The Law"..... "Obey the Law" believe in
God and love your neighbor.


Why in front of all these people would Jesus not tell them the
so-called only way that the Christians of today are saying 'no way to heaven except
through the blood of Jesus', why would Jesus contradict today's
Christians?


Are Christians freed from the Law as the modern Christians teach?


"Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and
teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he
who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom
of heaven." Matthew 5:19


Why would Jesus Teach this if he came so that his blood can relax
the Law, why is it when he was on earth, he Taught Not to Relax the
Law? And Those who follow the Laws will be the Highest in
Heaven.


"Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the
kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven." Matthew 7:21


Salvation according to some Christians comes from taking Jesus as
your god and accepting the claimed blood sacrifice, while on the
Other Hand, Jesus seems to be saying the Opposite. Why is that?
Aren't Christians supposed to follow the Teachings of Jesus,


As far as Salvation is concerned, Muslims are
following the Teachings of Jesus, why haven't the
Christians started yet ?


"For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother,
and sister, and mother." (Mark 3:35) If Jesus is god, why would he claim that
who ever follows the Commandments would be the brother or
mother of god ? Does god have a mother of brother?


"Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you
possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven;
and come, follow me." Matthew 19:21


Giving to directly to the Poor, one of the 5 Pillars of Islam, Jesus is
Teaching Piety to Enter Heaven.


"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew
19:24


This Verse was very revealing to me, Jesus is repeatedly saying, a
rich man will not enter Heaven.


Some Christians of today claim that Jesus died for all sins, yet Jesus
repeatedly taught that greed will prevent you from entering Heaven.
What about those Christians who are rich? Aren't they saved
according to the 10% collecting church?


Now according to the church and Christians of modern day, 'who ever
believes in the blood of Jesus and accepts Jesus as god, then that is
the only way that person is saved, not through works.


Now let's see if Jesus again contradicts the church;


"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes Him
who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but
has passed from death to life." John 5:24


It is Clear that according to Jesus the way to Heaven is to believe in
God (who Sent Jesus) and to hear (follow) the words of Jesus.


Does Jesus want us to believe in his blood Or to believe that he
is from God?


"Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to me
shall not hunger, and he who believes in me shall never thirst. John
6:35


Therefore Jesus is Telling them that if they believe in him (While he
was Alive) that they will receive paradise.


"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the
works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I
go to the Father." John 14:12


Truly, Honestly, I give you my Word Jesus Says: the Human who
does Works as I do (Jesus followed the Laws of Moses) then that
human will follow me to the Father (God).


"Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he
who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of
life." John 8:12


What does a light do? it guides, directs, it shows you the Right Path,
A light does not symbolize one to be sacrificed, but instead, one to
Guide.


All Muslims believe in Jesus
"There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in
him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a
witness against them" Qur'an 4:159


Therefore I am Puzzled as to why Jesus would name off all these
specific Teachings and Keys to enter Heaven except the one that the
Christians teach (his blood).


According to Jesus, Muslims are blessed and will be in Heaven
because they believe God sent Jesus and they follow works, I pray
that Christians will at least follow the words of Jesus and may "his
teachings" lead them to Truth.


" But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and
the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what
was revealed before thee: And (especially) those who establish
regular prayer and practise regular charity and believe in Allah
and in the Last Day: To them shall We soon give a great reward."
{Translation of the Holy Qur'an 4:162}


This is not to say that we can work our way into Heaven which is a common misunderstanding of Christians towards Islam.


This is to clarify that we can not Faith our way directly into Heaven which is a common misunderstanding of Christians towards Christianity.


It is said well by Jesus's younger brother and disciple (James) who said;


"Faith without works is Dead" {Jas 2:26}


And then the Truth is confirmed in the Holy Qur'an:


"..But the prayer of those without Faith is nothing but (futile wandering) in (mazes of) error! " {Holy Qur'an 40:50}


"For Him (alone) is prayer in Truth: any others that they call upon besides Him hear them no more than if they were to stretch forth their hands for water to reach their mouths but it reaches them not: for the prayer of those without Faith is in vain." {Holy Qur'an 13:14}


Peace

 

[ThinkerMan]

Soma....I've been loving your posts lately....nothing wrong with asking questions...

Salvation according to some Christians comes from taking Jesus as
your god and accepting the claimed blood sacrifice, while on the
Other Hand, Jesus seems to be saying the Opposite. Why is that?
Aren't Christians supposed to follow the Teachings of Jesus,

Because it's easier that way. Selling works takes, well, work.

Now my prediction.....bring on the Paul quotes to contradict all the Jesus quotes Soma just put up!!!!

 

[bibleberean]

Soma, I am only going to lock this post because I don't want you to lose all the work you did on it.

Will you please at least try to obey the terms of service?

Rule 13 - Posting Etiquette:

Please keep the posts down to a respectable length. You stand a better chance of getting your point across. People may not want to read them if they are too long. No using all CAPTIAL LETTERS in your responses. That is considered an aggressive action.

Copy this post and paste it in word or somewhere and then present a shorter version of it a much shorter version...

As people answer or add to your post you can then present more of the evidence you present to make your case.

I am trying to be fair.

Thanks,

Robert




I am not even close to kidding...

 

[bibleberean]

Soma,

I unlocked this post. If you are going to cut and paste don't repeat it twice in the same post. :roll:

Your post is long but I cut it down to size without deleting anything.

I simply cut out the second half of your post which was a word for word repeat of the first half.

Your questions and statements can and should be addressed.

We all make mistakes.

Thanks,

Robert

 

[bibleberean]

Question


"Many people in the Gospel asked that very same question
directly to Jesus and let's see what the reply was;


"And behold, one came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed
must I do, to have eternal life?"


"And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One
there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the
commandments." Matthew 19:16-17


Here according to Jesus, to enter Heaven, we follow the
commandments.


A question to the Christians is: why would Jesus mislead this man
if the 'only way to heaven was through the blood of Jesus'? "

Answer:

This is before Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross for our sins.

The question was asked by a Jew. Before Jesus died on the cross the Jews kept the faith by keeping the commandments.

Keeping the commandments does not mean you have to be sinless.

To the Jews before the cross the bible states.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

That sometimes the Jews kept the law is a fact.

Joshua 22:2 And said unto them, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you

If a Jew broke the law he needed to make atonement for his sin.

Leviticus 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.

5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing:

6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.

Quotation below is an excerpt from the article "Keeping the Law" by DJ Root

"A member of Old Testament Israel was either obedient "keeping the law" or guilty "under the law."

Obedience to the Law has never meant sinless perfection and behavior. It has always meant "following" the Law, including making sacrifices for sins committed.
The formula for obedience was to "obey the Law, and bring the prescribed sacrifice if you sin." Doing this would earn forgiveness and atonement for the guilty. A person "was" guilty UNTIL he brought the sacrifice. THEN he was no longer guilty, but forgiven. He had KEPT the Law."

But while their law-keeping earned them their forgiveness, it did not clear them completely. Only the blood of Christ would do that when he came hundreds of years later.


Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Hebrews 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins...

...Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

There is a big difference in how God dealt with man before the cross and after the cross.

 

[Relic]

.

Soma, Christ never mislead anyone. Why would anyone think such a thing? :-?


Thanks BB, that post reminds us that we must never loose sight of and never forget what the blood of Jesus Christ signifies for us.

The final sacrifice. It is IN Christ Jesus.

We are to follow Jesus, he also told us to follow him and carry our own cross. He knew what effort it takes for us to BE IN him. IT is a cross to bear. We all have our own cross to bear. I don't see how any of what Jesus said is null and void. It is NOT. never will be and never was.

Why do people think we don't have to do anything in order to be In Christ Jesus? What do they think "following" Him means? to do nothing but watch? :-? No we are to take on the Holy Spirit. And that Holy Spirit being IN Christ Jesus is that same HOLY Spirit that we take on. It is what leads us and helps us to resist, the whiles of the devil and to resist the temptations of sin. That is not easy! It is a sacrifice for us to give up our carnal minded self. And being IN that HOLY Spirit OF Christ Jesus. We are then "following" HIM. But it does not go without much effort on our part. We struggle through tribulations. The life of a Christian is not always so easy as some people think it goes without effort and hard work.


Also, as I understand, that does not mean we don't have to take up our own cross and follow him. Being that we are by nature, carnal minded/selfish, we still must deny ourselves in order to follow Jesus. And for us to carry our own cross IS a sacrifice in itself. It is not easy for the carnal minded to give up selfishness. That is where our free will comes into action. WE give freely of our own will. We give it over to follow Christ Jesus.

I don't know where in the bible it ever says to lay down our own cross. We are to still follow Jesus by denying self. Doing so is only a part of what is involved in carrying our own cross. We must give up "carnal" self (sacrifice) in order to walk in the "holiness" OF Christ Jesus.

Correct me if I am in error. Being a Christian does not mean we don't have lack of discipline or responsibility. Too many people think we don't have to do anything. Too many people think we can continue on in our sins without a care in the world. And in so doing, that is totally irresponsible and utter foolishness. So, why would anyone think that being a Christians goes without effort on our part? Giving of our own free will. To give of ourselves involves effort. Without giving we are self-serving instead of servants/friends of and followers of Christ. Jesus.

Christ never mislead anyone. We are to pick up our cross and follow Him.

.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Robert,

sorry about the long post... my apologies.

There is a big difference in how God dealt with man before the cross and after the cross.

This is a strange statement to me because the Word says that "he who is guilty of trangressing in the least of commands is guilty of breaking them all".

If this is the case those that lived prior top the Cross would all be guilty no matter how much works were done because they never could accept the Blood of the Lamb?

Now if the Cross was the focal point of Christ's ministry, and most of the people that He talked to during His life were STILL alive at the time of the Crucifxtion.... and Christ could SEE THE FUTURE of His death.....

Why would He not proclaim that belief in His blood is the central point and meaning to His incarnation?

Why instead did He say....

And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all
your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will
live." Luke 10:25-28


Where is the central teaching that Paul proclaims, that of having to accept the blood of the Cross as a prerequisite to understanding God and obeying Him for your own Salvation/benifit/spiritual undestanding/etc?

If it was so important that man believe on the Cross, why was it brushed over/not mentioned by Christ when HE KNEW that that act was the only Way for man to be saved?

Why would His minsitry be about works, loving one another aside from class and social stature, etc?

Was Paul smoking grass or is thier a reason Christ mislead people through a works doctrine?

Because we all know that Christ foresaw His death!

 

[Amity]

Now my prediction.....bring on the Paul quotes to contradict all the Jesus quotes Soma just put up!!!!

Hi!! I'm new here and just reading through some old posts. Your comment caught my attention. Actually, I don't believe Paul contradicts Jesus at all. Their teachings absolutely harmonize when we listen to Jesus in Matthew 4:4 and live by every word of God, rather than bits and pieces that may "fit the doctrine" of one's choice. We must follow the doctrine of Christ (2 John 1:9) which was delivered one time, for all time, (Jude 1:3) and shown to us through the written word of God.



Now, as for the title to this thread, I would like to give my own .02, FWIW, if that's alright with everyone.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The scriptures reveal to us what we must do in order to be saved.

Since Jesus was the one who died on the cross for us, let's notice the instructions that He gave.


Believe:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

Confess:
"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matt 10:32-33).

Repent:
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).

Be Baptized:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16).

Continued Obedience:
"If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).





Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

In Christian love,

 

[Karma2Grace]

Why would He not proclaim that belief in His blood is the central point and meaning to His incarnation?

He DID proclaimed that His blood is the central point and meaning to incarnation (see I didn’t quote anything from Letters or Acts, All from Gospels the same word Jesus uttered) , He knows the purpose of his incarnation

John 12:27 "Now My soul has become troubled; and what shall I say, `Father, save me from this hour'? But for this purpose I came to this hour.

Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins


Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

John 6:54 “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last dayâ€Â

And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."
And he said to him, "You have answered right; do this, and you will
live." Luke 10:25-28

Yes Soma, if you love God then you will do what He command you to do,
Jesus clearly declared that

John 6:53 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

So without the blood of Christ you have no other Hope!

Why would His ministry be about works, loving one another aside from class and social stature, etc?

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

This is a radical and heretical teaching to the works-based Pharisees. Those who "abide in" or who have faith in Jesus Christ will bear fruit, and any work that takes place outside of this context (a self righteous New Ager) are of no redemptive value

So What is you opinion on the above verses that Jesus uttered , It is so clear that Jesus’s sacrifice is essential and there is NO salvation apart from that!

 

[Karma2Grace]

Was Paul smoking grass or is thier a reason Christ mislead people through a works doctrine?

Moreover, I don't think your New Age Guru has authority on Paul writings to declare that it contradicts Jesus's thoughts, if some one ought to do it, it would be Peter, Who lived with Jesus and know/heard Jesus more than you, me and your Guru, See the witness of Peter on Paul's writings

2 Peter 3:15 “and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,â€Â

2 Peter 3:16 “as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.â€Â

 

[ThinkerMan]

Now my prediction.....bring on the Paul quotes to contradict all the Jesus quotes Soma just put up!!!!

Hi!! I'm new here and just reading through some old posts. Your comment caught my attention. Actually, I don't believe Paul contradicts Jesus at all. Their teachings absolutely harmonize when we listen to Jesus in Matthew 4:4 and live by every word of God, rather than bits and pieces that may "fit the doctrine" of one's choice. We must follow the doctrine of Christ (2 John 1:9) which was delivered one time, for all time, (Jude 1:3) and shown to us through the written word of God.



Now, as for the title to this thread, I would like to give my own .02, FWIW, if that's alright with everyone.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The scriptures reveal to us what we must do in order to be saved.

Since Jesus was the one who died on the cross for us, let's notice the instructions that He gave.


Believe:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

Confess:
"Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matt 10:32-33).

Repent:
"I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).

Be Baptized:
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16).

Continued Obedience:
"If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).





Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

In Christian love,

Amity...welcome to the forums. So as to be fair, I will let you know that I am an atheist, in case that wasn't clear.

I do not believe Paul is in harmony with the teachings of Jesus. While I have read (and at one time believed) the attempts to harmonize the differences between the preachings of the two, I find them severly lacking.

Many will disagree with me, but I have little reason to believe that Paul knew anything about the teachings of Jesus. He certainly spent no time with him, as well as almost no time with the Apostles. That time he did spend, it could be said, they didn't exactly get along particularly well.

While certainly some parts of John are more "Pauline" that the synoptics, in general, as Soma outlined, Jesus obviously put a lot of stock in works. Much more in harmony with James (which in turn is even in stronger opposition to Paul). Jesus repeatedly talks of good works as the way to heaven.

2 Peter is often raised to knock down this point, and give creedence to Paul's teachings and the harmony with the Apostles. However, that is assuming that the Apostle Peter actually wrote that letter, and that it was contemporary with Paul. The vast majority of scholars find both these likely not to be true, for a variety of reasons I won't delineate her. Claims of Peter's authorship have been debated since it first arose, and evidence of authorship is probably by far the weakest in the NT.

Like Thomas Jefferson, I think whatever Jesus really said and did is lost through the lens of Paul and his followers. I know you likely disagree, but I thought I would share with you my rationale.

 

[Gary]

I do not believe Paul is in harmony with the teachings of Jesus.

I think you speculate a lot with very little proof. Let Scripture correct you.

Paul and Jesus
- their teachings -

An honest reading of the New Testament shows that Paul did not teach a new religion. The foundation stones for Christianity are patently taken from the Old Testament, Judaism generally, and the life of a historical figure named Jesus.

A careful study of the Epistles and the Gospel reveals that the source of Paul’s teachings on salvation was the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus. A simple comparison of both Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings will demonstrate the point:

(1) Paul, similar to Jesus, taught that Christianity was a fulfillment of Judaism.

• Jesus declared: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17). Jesus added, “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law†(Luke 16:16-17).
  
  Paul’s teaching: The Christ of Paul and Jesus is utterly at home in Judaism. Paul wrote to the Romans: “Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4). He added in Colossians, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ†(Colossians 2:16-17).

(2) Both Paul and Jesus taught that human beings are sinners.

• Jesus declared: “I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them†(Mark 3:28). He added in John, “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins†(John 8:24).
  
  Paul declared: All human beings are sinful, insisting that “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God†(Romans 3:23). He added in Ephesians, “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins†(Ephesians 2:1). Indeed, part of the very definition of the Gospel was that “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures†(1 Corinthians 15:3).

(3) Both Jesus and Paul insisted that the shed blood of Christ was necessary as an atonement for our sins.

• Jesus proclaimed: “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many†(Mark 10:45). He added at the Last Supper, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins†(Matthew 26:28).
  
  Paul is just as emphatic: He affirmed that “In him [Christ] we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace†(Ephesians 1:7). In Romans he added, “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us†(Romans 5:8). Referring back to the Old Testament Passover, he said, “Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed†(1 Corinthians 5:7).

(4) Jesus and Paul also taught that the death and burial of Jesus was completed by his bodily resurrection.

• Jesus said: “He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third dayâ€Â’ (Luke 24:46). Jesus challenged, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.... But the temple he had spoken of was his body†(John 2:19-21). After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken (John 2:22; John 20:25-29).
  
  Paul’s teaching: The apostle Paul also stressed the need of the resurrection for salvation. To the Romans he wrote: “He [Jesus] was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification†(Romans 4:25). Indeed, Paul insisted that belief in the resurrection was essential to salvation, writing, “That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved†(Romans 10:9).

(5) Jesus and Paul taught salvation is by grace through faith.

• Jesus affirmed that every person needs God’s grace. Jesus’ disciples said to him, “Who then can be saved?†Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible†(Matthew 19:25-26). All through the Gospel of John Jesus presented only one way to obtain God’s gracious salvation: “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life†(John 3:36; John 3:16; John 5:24; Mark 1:15).
  
  Paul taught salvation by grace through faith, affirming, “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast†(Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-7). He added to the Romans, “To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness (Romans 4:5).

Conclusion:

• A comparison of the teachings of Jesus and Paul on salvation reveals clearly that there is no basis for speculating on any source of Paul’s teachings other than that of Jesus. Christianity was rooted in Judaism. Indeed, Paul’s message of the gospel was both checked and approved by the original apostles (Galatians 1-2), demonstrating official recognition that his message was not opposed to that of Jesus.

-Source-

 

[ThinkerMan]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17).

“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4).

Jesus says he will not abolish the law, Paul says he abolished (ended) the law.

How are these in harmony?

 

[Karma2Grace]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17).

[quote:9a85f]“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4).

Jesus says he will not abolish the law, Paul says he abolished (ended) the law.

How are these in harmony?[/quote:9a85f]

Christ is the fulfillment of Law, When the new covenant becomes active (after the death and resurrection of Christ) the old one becomes invalid

Christ is the fulfillment of the old covenant Once He fulfilled the old covenant and started the new one , When Paul wrote Romans the new covenant was active NOT the old one , so What is your point?

 

[ThinkerMan]

So Jesus gave a famous speech, discussing the hows and whys to please God and enter heaven. Full of deeds and works and attitudes.

Nothing in Chapter 5 implies much else.

Yet he failed to tell them, that in a few short months (or weeks) that that is all going out the window? That he will fulfill the law, and there will be new ground rules to follow?

Assuming, just a second, that the people there DID know about how and what fulfillment would bring, why would Jesus go through this long (and soon to be antiquated) dissertation on salvation? On the other hand, since the apostles never seemed to have a clue what Jesus was talking about when he forewarned of his death and resurrection, I think it is a stretch to think his audience did.

Essentially, my point is that IF the rules were going to change (or the law fulfilled, whichever) very, very soon, why didn't Jesus speak of this. In my opinion (and I'm sure you disagree), the only reasonable thing to take out of Matthew 5 is that good deeds and work through observation of the law are the way to the get in heaven. If the rules were going to change , he certainly gave no notice, infact the first phrase of his quote, he admonishes them not to even consider that he will abolish the law.

However, assuming your point holds water, and the law is fulfilled, but NOT abolished, where is it? Since Jesus said it would not go away, who does it apply to?

 

[Gary]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17).

[quote:7c275]“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4).

Jesus says he will not abolish the law, Paul says he abolished (ended) the law.

How are these in harmony?[/quote:7c275]

Again you try and twist Scripture... but fail. Let us rather highlight the correct similarities in Matthew/Jesus' message and Paul's message.

Jesus: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.†(Matthew 5:17).

“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.†(Romans 10:4).

Do you get it now? fulfill=end

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would have thought that you, a so-called ex-Christian, would have at least learnt this when you went to Bible study with other Christians or even when you read any reasonable study Bible.

Jesus said very explicitly, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy, but to fulfill.†However, on one occasion Jesus approved of His disciples when they broke the Jewish law about working on the Sabbath (Mark 2:24), and Jesus Himself did away with the ceremonial law by declaring all meats clean (Mark 7:19). Jesus’ disciples clearly rejected much of the OT law, including circumcision (Acts 15; Galatians 5:6; Galatians 6:15). Indeed, Paul declared that “You are not under law but under grace†(Romans 6:14) and that the Ten Commandments engraved in stone have been “taken away in Christ†(2 Corinthians 3:14).

So how does this all fit together?

In the matter of whether the Law of Moses was done away with by Christ, confusion results from failing to distinguish several things.

First of all, there is a confusion of time. During His lifetime, Jesus always kept the Law of Moses Himself, including offering sacrifices to the Jewish priests (Matthew 8:4), attending Jewish festivals (John 7:10), and eating the passover lamb (Matthew 26:19). He did on occasion violate the pharisaical (and false) traditions that had grown up around the Law (cf. Matthew 5:43-44), chiding them, “You have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition†(Matthew 15:6). The verses that indicate the law has been fulfilled refer to after the Cross when there is “neither Jew nor Greek … for you are all one in Christ Jesus†(Galatians 3:28).

Second, there is a confusion of aspect. At least some of the references (if not all) to the Law being done away with in the NT are speaking of OT ceremonies and types. These ceremonial and typological aspects of the OT Law of Moses were clearly done away with when Jesus, our passover lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7), fulfilled the Law’s types and predictions about His first coming (cf. Hebrews 7-10). In this sense, Jesus clearly did away with the ceremonial and typological aspects of the Law, not by destroying the Law, but by fulfilling it.

Finally, there is a confusion about context. Even when the moral dimensions of the law are discussed, there is a confusion. For example, not only did Jesus fulfill the moral demands of the Law for us (Romans 8:2-3), but the national and theocratic context in which God’s moral principles were expressed in the OT no longer apply to Christians today. For example, we are not under the commands as Moses expressed them for Israel, since, when expressed for them in the Ten Commandments, it had as its reward that the Jews would live “long upon the land [of Palestine] which the Lord your God is giving you [Israelites]†(e.g., Exodus 20:12). When the moral principle expressed in this OT commandment is stated in the NT, it is expressed in a different context, namely, one that is not national or theocratic, but is personal and universal. For all persons who honor their parents, Paul declares that they will “live long on the earth†(Ephesians 6:3). Likewise, Christians are no longer under the commandment of Moses to worship on Saturday (Exodus 20:8-11), for, since the Resurrection, appearances, and Ascension (all of which occurred on Sunday), Christians worship on Sunday instead (see Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). Sabbath worship, declared Paul, was only an OT “shadow†of the real substance which was inaugurated by Christ (Colossians 2:16-17). Since even the Ten Commandments as such were expressed in a national Jewish, theocratic framework, the NT can speak correctly about that which was “engraved on stones†being “taken away in Christ “ (2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:13-14).

However, this does not mean that the moral principles embodied in the Ten Commandments, that reflect the very nature of an unchanging God, are not still binding on believers today. Indeed, every one of these principles contained in the Ten Commandments is restated in another context in the NT, except of course the command to rest and worship on Saturday.

Christians today are no more under the Ten Commandments as given by Moses to Israel than we are under the Mosaic Law’s requirement to be circumcised (see Acts 15; Galatians 3) or to bring a lamb to the temple in Jerusalem for sacrifice. The fact that we are bound by similar moral laws against adultery, lying, stealing, and murder no more proves we are still under the Ten Commandments than the fact that there are similar traffic laws in North Carolina and Texas proves that a Texan is under the laws of North Carolina. The truth is that when one violates the speed laws in Texas he has not thereby violated a similar law in North Carolina, nor is he thereby bound by the penalties of such laws in North Carolina. In like manner, although both the OT and NT speak against adultery, nevertheless, the penalty was differentâ€â€capital punishment in the OT (Leviticus 20:10) and only excommunication from the church in the NT (1 Corinthians 5:1-13), with the hope of restoration upon repentance (cf. 2 Corinthians 2:6-8).

Source: Geisler, N. L., & Howe, T. A. (1992). When critics ask : A popular handbook on Bible difficulties (Page 330).

 

[Gary]

P.S. I had already answered your objection..... read it again -here-

(1) Paul, similar to Jesus, taught that Christianity was a fulfillment of Judaism.

• Jesus declared: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them†(Matthew 5:17). Jesus added, “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law†(Luke 16:16-17).
  
  Paul’s teaching: The Christ of Paul and Jesus is utterly at home in Judaism. Paul wrote to the Romans: “Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes†(Romans 10:4). He added in Colossians, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christââ‚ (Colossians 2:16-17).

 

[ThinkerMan]

P.S. I had already answered your objection..... read it again -here-

I know...but if we didn't rehash all the same stuff over and over again, the horse may get up.

:-D

Do you get it now? fulfill=end

So he ended it, but he didn't abolish it. Where is it?

You described different states and different laws. Where must I go to find those under the law?

First of all, there is a confusion of time.

Jesus sure seemed to add to that confusion. As I stated, he didn't say a thing about the law ending, or perhaps to be more specific about works being irrelevant. Despite the fact it happens quite soon after this talk.

The sermon on the mount is all about justification by works. Jesus gives no indication, other than perhaps the vague "fulfill" phrase, which was surrounded by admonishions that the law was not going away, that it would be changing.

Obviously almost all these folks who heard the sermon outlived Jesus. Having left the mount and lived by Jesus' words, would they been saved by those actions although they had been fulfilled, and there was a new justification method?

 

[Klee shay]

It's simple...

The people you've quoted as asking Jesus how to obtain eternal life, came under the old covernant. There was no new covernant yet.

For Christ to tell those people how to obtain eternal life through the new covernant, would be a lie, for it was not yet fulfilled. Even though Christ knew it would eventually come to pass, he was asked while the old covernant was still in place. He had to tell the truth under those circumstances.

It's all a matter of perspective. :wink: