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How to handle this. . .

D

doulos76

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Hello all,
This is my first post here and I joined specifically cause I wanted to get a perspective on a situation I am facing from people who don't know any of the parties involved. So, here is the deal. . . I am very single, and like many single Christian guys, the ladies in the church somehow feel that they need to find me a wife. Fine. But some of the girls that they have approached me with have a ton of "baggage". I am all about forgiveness and not judging a person on their past, but to be honest, I don't want a girl who has a baby or babies, just got out of a unequally yolked relationship, is divorced one or more times, has one or more restraining orders on one or more guys, just finished a drug rehab program, or other similar "baggage". My thought is that I worked hard at remaining "baggage free" for a long time, and I fell that I would be settling if I ended up with someone who lived life with no regard to their future husband. I am not looking for advise on that, although if you want to give your opinion, I am all ears. My situation is that a certain lady in my church has been very heavy on the complements towards me lately and I have found out that it is because she wants to have her granddaughter and I get together. Very flattering, but again with the "baggage". This girl is a mess and I really don't have any desire to date her. So. . . . when this grandmother brings this to me, and she most assuredly will, how do I answer without seeming judgmental, snobbish, greater-than-tho, etc. I don't want to lie, but I don't want to get in to a position where I compromise my convictions. Any advise is appreciated. Look forward to getting to know you folks.
 
First, welcome to Christian Forums

I'll say this about your described scenario before I get to what you wanted the advice on. It is NOT settling to date and/or marry someone who has "baggage." I had sat out of the dating scene for almost 8 years thinking that I was more suited for someone who had waited for me the same way I waited for them. I finally found out about a year ago to the day that my prespective was all wrong. Just like that God helped me to see that it wasn't about what a person had or had not done before, but more so about be willing to accept whoever God brings into your life. Now I'm not only willing to accept my Fiance for who she is now, but I could not be any happier and yet I still grow more in love with her daily.

As for this particular person, just be honest and fair. Allow yourself to get to know this young woman, but be clear on what your intentions are. Let God be the one who decides who he wants for you. That usually tends to work out best.
 
Let Gods will take its course. that wouldnt be lying to this particular lady at church either. at the same time, let Gods will take its course. if there is a young lady with so called "baggage" that you feel is different. take the time and give her the opportunity. she may be in Gods will? i wish you luck but His will be done, all else will fall into place!
 
doulos76 said:
Hello all,
This is my first post here and I joined specifically cause I wanted to get a perspective on a situation I am facing from people who don't know any of the parties involved. So, here is the deal. . . I am very single, and like many single Christian guys, the ladies in the church somehow feel that they need to find me a wife. Fine. But some of the girls that they have approached me with have a ton of "baggage". I am all about forgiveness and not judging a person on their past, but to be honest, I don't want a girl who has a baby or babies, just got out of a unequally yolked relationship, is divorced one or more times, has one or more restraining orders on one or more guys, just finished a drug rehab program, or other similar "baggage". My thought is that I worked hard at remaining "baggage free" for a long time, and I fell that I would be settling if I ended up with someone who lived life with no regard to their future husband. I am not looking for advise on that, although if you want to give your opinion, I am all ears. My situation is that a certain lady in my church has been very heavy on the complements towards me lately and I have found out that it is because she wants to have her granddaughter and I get together. Very flattering, but again with the "baggage". This girl is a mess and I really don't have any desire to date her. So. . . . when this grandmother brings this to me, and she most assuredly will, how do I answer without seeming judgmental, snobbish, greater-than-tho, etc. I don't want to lie, but I don't want to get in to a position where I compromise my convictions. Any advise is appreciated. Look forward to getting to know you folks.
Click to expand...

I'm going to say I'm slightly offended by this but here is my opinion...

I am a young lady with baggage. My main baggage is a little girl named Cecilia and she's 4. Yep, I'm a single mom. Her daddy ran away as soon as he found out I was preggy. Pregnant out of wedlock...gasp! I'm not going to call her a mistake because she was sent to me from the Lord Himself to save me from my road of darkness. I've made tons of mistakes...TONS! You'd probably run away crying if I told you any of them.

After I had my daughter, my mom gave me two books by Joshua Harris (he's all about the courtship) I got half way through both then stopped because I realized this guy was trying to reach people who had yet to make mistakes in their lives. He wasn't trying to reach me...someone who was already stained. Anyway, I read those books about 3 years ago but a lot of Joshua Harris' comments are on my mind constantly. If that is the kind of lady I should have been, why would a guy, especially a nice Christian guy, want anything to do with me? I am so far from being the kind of lady that was described in those books.

Even though I am nowhere near being the person I used to be, I still have doubts that I will ever find a good Christian guy that can look past who I was and see that I'm actually pretty awesome despite the hardships I've been through. So seeing your post makes me wonder if the majority of Christian men think this way. Do you guys really think you're too good and too "clean" to deal with someone that has gone a hard time?

The one thing I would like to say is that I don't really have baggage. I do not consider my daughter baggage. And as far as anything that I've done in the past...well, that's why I choose to follow Jesus Christ. Because, unlike humans, He is not too good for me. He will never cast me away or sit there and judge me. He has cleansed me of anything that I have done. Yes, my past is there but I have repented and have intentionally changed my life to focus on the Lord and my daughter.

I don't know how old you are but I do hope your mentality changes. Obviously if you find yourself a nice, clean, unbaggaged girl, then high fives to you. But as far as completely casting away anyone you consider to have "baggage", I find that foolish and close minded. I would have a talk with the Lord. Maybe He has something else in mind for you than you do for yourself.

Anyway, that's my shpeal. Either way, I wish you luck in following what the Lord has in store for you.

God bless :)
 
LaMexicana said:
doulos76 said:
Hello all,
This is my first post here and I joined specifically cause I wanted to get a perspective on a situation I am facing from people who don't know any of the parties involved. So, here is the deal. . . I am very single, and like many single Christian guys, the ladies in the church somehow feel that they need to find me a wife. Fine. But some of the girls that they have approached me with have a ton of "baggage". I am all about forgiveness and not judging a person on their past, but to be honest, I don't want a girl who has a baby or babies, just got out of a unequally yolked relationship, is divorced one or more times, has one or more restraining orders on one or more guys, just finished a drug rehab program, or other similar "baggage". My thought is that I worked hard at remaining "baggage free" for a long time, and I fell that I would be settling if I ended up with someone who lived life with no regard to their future husband. I am not looking for advise on that, although if you want to give your opinion, I am all ears. My situation is that a certain lady in my church has been very heavy on the complements towards me lately and I have found out that it is because she wants to have her granddaughter and I get together. Very flattering, but again with the "baggage". This girl is a mess and I really don't have any desire to date her. So. . . . when this grandmother brings this to me, and she most assuredly will, how do I answer without seeming judgmental, snobbish, greater-than-tho, etc. I don't want to lie, but I don't want to get in to a position where I compromise my convictions. Any advise is appreciated. Look forward to getting to know you folks.
Click to expand...

I'm going to say I'm slightly offended by this but here is my opinion...

I am a young lady with baggage. My main baggage is a little girl named Cecilia and she's 4. Yep, I'm a single mom. Her daddy ran away as soon as he found out I was preggy. Pregnant out of wedlock...gasp! I'm not going to call her a mistake because she was sent to me from the Lord Himself to save me from my road of darkness. I've made tons of mistakes...TONS! You'd probably run away crying if I told you any of them.

After I had my daughter, my mom gave me two books by Joshua Harris (he's all about the courtship) I got half way through both then stopped because I realized this guy was trying to reach people who had yet to make mistakes in their lives. He wasn't trying to reach me...someone who was already stained. Anyway, I read those books about 3 years ago but a lot of Joshua Harris' comments are on my mind constantly. If that is the kind of lady I should have been, why would a guy, especially a nice Christian guy, want anything to do with me? I am so far from being the kind of lady that was described in those books.

Even though I am nowhere near being the person I used to be, I still have doubts that I will ever find a good Christian guy that can look past who I was and see that I'm actually pretty awesome despite the hardships I've been through. So seeing your post makes me wonder if the majority of Christian men think this way. Do you guys really think you're too good and too "clean" to deal with someone that has gone a hard time?

The one thing I would like to say is that I don't really have baggage. I do not consider my daughter baggage. And as far as anything that I've done in the past...well, that's why I choose to follow Jesus Christ. Because, unlike humans, He is not too good for me. He will never cast me away or sit there and judge me. He has cleansed me of anything that I have done. Yes, my past is there but I have repented and have intentionally changed my life to focus on the Lord and my daughter.

I don't know how old you are but I do hope your mentality changes. Obviously if you find yourself a nice, clean, unbaggaged girl, then high fives to you. But as far as completely casting away anyone you consider to have "baggage", I find that foolish and close minded. I would have a talk with the Lord. Maybe He has something else in mind for you than you do for yourself.

Anyway, that's my shpeal. Either way, I wish you luck in following what the Lord has in store for you.

God bless :)
Click to expand...

Allow me to expand on doulos76's point:As a fellow Christian man who's single, me and him share the same problem-how to choose a God-fearing mate, without falling off the edge in the process.

Falling off the edge can be anything that brings distance between God and you, but ill name a few examples:
Dating an unsaved girl(dangerous,as it offers a temptation to premarital sex)
Dating an unstable mate(a hard situation for all )
Unstable could mean constantly flirting with other guys, outright cheating, living a double life,drug use,intensely jealous,dishonest faith, etc.
And you dont tend to find out about such negatives until youre 3 or 4 dates in, relating as an item.Then you move to the 'should I stay, or should I go?' Or, 'Should I break this woman's heart , or no?

Enter Drama, stage left.

This is a train many men have ridden, and im sad to say im no stranger to that subway line.I say all that to make the point that doulos76 is trying to avoid any obvious situations where problems like the above (or worse) may happen.

At my own church, my dad likes to play imaginary matchmaker too (Son, that Alyceson girl is really somethin'. You guys went to school , right?). Little does he know her real hisory, which is why we hopefully never go out. Its not that I think she's a bad person, or unworthy of dating me;im simply congicant of the fact that put in a situation where I have to tell a girl whos trying to take my clothes off 'no' , I may fail Jesus under that situation. That's not be being judgemental-thats avoiding problems.

I dont think his point was to insult single mothers. As point of fact I was raised by my single mom until she met my stepdad 5 years ago, and ever since have been the most wonderful family I could wish for. So dont despair.

As for adressing doulos76's situation, id take the hunt in my own hands :pray . First, pray. Then act.
Get to know christian women at your church ( I imagine you already know the genuine ones from the 'Sunday Morning' variety ), that way you make it clear that your handling your own business, so to speak.
Id take the granddaughter out,offer her a fair chance , but if things dont work out, just be clear that youre not looking for a relationship with her. Dont wuss out and say YOURE not looking, because then youre lying-and she'll know that when you seek out other Christian women and it goes through speed-of-light church grapevine.Just explain that you dont think it would work out between you and her, but keep her as a friend nontheless. Theres a girl I asked out in the church who I went out with once, it didnt work, but to this day were still friends.

Hope this lights the way,
God Bless.
 
Well, then, he should clear that up.

What I'm saying is that just because a woman has a past, it does not mean she's still that person; whether it be divorce, a child or whatever else comes to mind. To me it seems like he wants someone with a clean slate which is fine and all BUT he should not cast judgement or cast away any woman who has been through some tough times. God changes people and as long as she's a Godly woman, then that "baggage" should not matter because she has given it to the Lord.

Now, if these chicks are currently trouble makers and choose to remain on that road and not repent of their actions, then I agree that you should walk away. Been there, done that and it's complete failure attempting to follow the Lord when you're unequally yoked.

So, again, my point is that a Godly woman is a Godly woman whether she has a clean record or has made some mistakes in the past.

My advice would be to straight up from the beginning. If you're a God fearing man, then express that to these women. From my experience, hiding it turns to failure. By expressing these things you will more than likely thin out the pack. These games people play in getting to know one another are ridiculous...hiding things because they're afraid of being judged by the other person. It's dumb. I say be honest and in being honest with your beliefs (and showing it in your actions) will attract the right kind of ladies.
 
I agree with you Raquel, it sounded to me also that he is worried about having a girl with a "clean slate", not about being tempted. I think that if you are going to approach a woman with that attitude you are pretty much telling God what you will and won't have, and that is a bad situation to put yourself into. If she has messed up in the past but repented and given it to God, and you see that He is evident in her life, then why not? You should be glad that you were strong enough (or weren't exposed to certain circumstances) to not make regrets, because it is a gift that MANY people don't have. But to automatically shut someone out because of a past decision is low, and you could be missing out on the woman whom God has for you.
 
I not sure about the exact rule of posting links but, my church for the month of February is covering relationships and they podcast every sunday, but I would say to check out the podcast from Feb. 1 its entitled "I'm Alone" new podcasts covering relationships will be posted to the site every sunday afternoon or the following monday. http://citycentrechurch.com/messages.aspx
 
I'm going to come right out and say this to the guys.

Raquel, I got the same questionable feelings from that post as you did, but for different reasons. When I saw that the issue of baggage more or less took someone out of the picture, my eyes widened as well.

Two years ago I could honestly say, sadly enough, I felt the same way. I had it in my head that I was the man when it came to datability. Like Paul felt about being the Jew of Jews, I thought I was the Gent of Gents.

I could honestly say every one of the following things was true of my life: I was not just a virgin, but proud of my virginity. I had not kissed a girl in over 6 years, not by lack of options, but by choice. I understood relationships so well that I could predict break ups with-in the week of the day they would actually happen. I had completely left home, and knew that I could make it on my own if I needed to. I had my OWN online ministry which was not just impacting hundreds but thousands. There were even times I would visit a church and meet people for the first time who had heard about me and knew I was a quality guy and one who lived for God.

God was clearly blessing my life, and yet I was still too prideful, and my ego made me think that I was too good for a woman with "baggage." However, with all these blessings in my life, I was terribly lonely because I could see that God was preparing me to be a Godly boyfriend and husband and yet I did not have the person God wanted in my life. I was the problem.

It was the lonliness that God used to finally break me of this particular area of pride. I wasn't done learning after God conquered my pride, but I know for a fact how wrong I was for looking at women in terms of how "good" they've been over the course of their lives.

The truth is, none of us have been that "good" though the courses of our lives. If we tell God we will only let him use the things we see as "good" in our lives, you are truly limiting what God can do, as Caromurp has said. If we would be honest with ourselves, not even we would be good and then how can we hold this arrogant attitude and still as God to use...us.
 
That's awesome that you realized that, Tim.

I think its' amazing that there are people can remain "good" and that they are waiting for the Lord to give them the right person. Sometimes I wish I would have been one of those people. I really give props to anyone who allows the Lord to lead them in their lives because it's hard! Especially if you don't have the right kind of guidance.

It's a difficult situation for people (especially women) who have made mistakes. To the point where I question if I really deserve a good Christian man. Despite what society tells us about how women should be, I think the majority of Christians have this picture in their head of what they think a Christian woman should be. Yes, the bible does have descriptions but how many actually fit into that? I have met some that do and all power to them. But I have yet to see a good Christian man who is has picked up a "baggaged" woman...which is a little discouraging in my case. My Christian world is tiny, so I'm sure it has happened but I just haven't seen it yet.

I just hope people realize there is no mold for a Christian woman. I would stay away from anyone that can make you stumble in your walk with God but I think people need to be a little more open to what a Christian woman (or person in general) can be. Tattoos, pink hair, kids, divorce, piercings...that's what people seem to judge. What people should look for is a kind, Godly heart.
 
LaMexicana said:
It's a difficult situation for people (especially women) who have made mistakes. To the point where I question if I really deserve a good Christian man. Despite what society tells us about how women should be, I think the majority of Christians have this picture in their head of what they think a Christian woman should be. Yes, the bible does have descriptions but how many actually fit into that? I have met some that do and all power to them. But I have yet to see a good Christian man who is has picked up a "baggaged" woman...which is a little discouraging in my case. My Christian world is tiny, so I'm sure it has happened but I just haven't seen it yet.
Click to expand...

Just look at Tim and me. He is one of those Christian men who didn't stray when growing up and kept himself pure. I, on the other hand, wasn't so smart about it and am divorced (thank God) and have quite afew tatoos, had piercings, did drugs and drank alchohol, etc... I have put myself through the ringer often over whether or not I deserve such a good man, but if you look at things through Gods eyes none of us even deserve life! Someone who has lived a pure life may put themselves on a pedestal thinking they deserve a reward for their goodness, but God says that none of us are good and if it weren't for his mercy we would all suffer his perfect wrath and be completely consumed. So really, it is a lie that Satan wants us to believe, that we don't deserve something good because whether or not we deserve it has nothing to do with it. God gives his blessings to those whom he loves.

You never know what God has in store for your future if you give it to him completely to work as he sees fit. That is what these guys, and others like them, need to understand; that it's not up to them to decide who is right for them and who isn't. If the Lord arranges a marriage for them (so to speak) they should be obedient to that. And let me tell you, there is joy in obedience! :yes
 
Okay, I think I struck a nerve with some of you, and I apologize. I am gonna try to clarify but I have a feeling we will just end up not seeing things the same way. First, I do not think I am better because I have not made the same kind of bad decisions as others, I have made other types of bad decisions, and I know that ALL have fallen short. . . Because I have made many bad decisions in my life I also know that there are consequences for our actions, sometime immediate, sometimes not so immediate. For some, that consequence MAY be that they have a more difficult time finding a Godly man or woman. I am not saying that every girl or guy who has made bad decisions in the past is condemned to ending up with an ungodly mate , but I also don't think that anyone can say, without exception, that past or current "baggage" should not matter at all when a Godly person seeks a mate. As for the girl in the situation I am in, if she is currently repentant of her lifestyle, I don't know, but the fact that she has a three month old baby from a guy that she has had a restraining order on for the last two months and was still with as late as one month ago, I would say she has some baggage that I am not willing to take on. That is not judging her, just like seeing a tree with red fruits that look, smell, feel, and taste like apples and has a big sign next to that say "Apple Tree" and then making the decision that it is an apple tree is not judging that tree. Personally, I could be with someone who has had "baggage" in their PAST, as long as they gave it up to the Lord. So, When is it considered the "past", I think it is case by case, but as for this one she still needs to check her baggage at the feet of the Lord, and it doesn't even look like she has made the first step. Again, I truly apologize that I offended some of you ask for your forgiveness.
 
doulos76 said:
Okay, I think I struck a nerve with some of you, and I apologize. I am gonna try to clarify but I have a feeling we will just end up not seeing things the same way. First, I do not think I am better because I have not made the same kind of bad decisions as others, I have made other types of bad decisions, and I know that ALL have fallen short. . . Because I have made many bad decisions in my life I also know that there are consequences for our actions, sometime immediate, sometimes not so immediate. For some, that consequence MAY be that they have a more difficult time finding a Godly man or woman. I am not saying that every girl or guy who has made bad decisions in the past is condemned to ending up with an ungodly mate , but I also don't think that anyone can say, without exception, that past or current "baggage" should not matter at all when a Godly person seeks a mate. As for the girl in the situation I am in, if she is currently repentant of her lifestyle, I don't know, but the fact that she has a three month old baby from a guy that she has had a restraining order on for the last two months and was still with as late as one month ago, I would say she has some baggage that I am not willing to take on. That is not judging her, just like seeing a tree with red fruits that look, smell, feel, and taste like apples and has a big sign next to that say "Apple Tree" and then making the decision that it is an apple tree is not judging that tree. Personally, I could be with someone who has had "baggage" in their PAST, as long as they gave it up to the Lord. So, When is it considered the "past", I think it is case by case, but as for this one she still needs to check her baggage at the feet of the Lord, and it doesn't even look like she has made the first step. Again, I truly apologize that I offended some of you ask for your forgiveness.
Click to expand...

Ok, that's a little different. If she currently has the baby daddy on a restraining order, that's definitely present and a lot of drama that she needs to fix and that you don't need to get involved in.

As far as how "past" can someone's past be to be considered a past. I think that depends on the person. The main thing would be if they were able to let it go and move on....I would consider that a past. Someone who is constantly living in the past and acting as if it's still their present...that's a problem. You can't make a future with somebody who won't let go of what they've done. That's something you need to find out by just having a conversation. It's usually pretty clear when someone is still stuck on stuff they have done...especially women because most of us talk a lot so you'll find out pretty quickly how we feel about things.

Some people are mature enough to move on and let the Lord lead them and others find it harder to let go. Go for the mature one that have intentionally moved on to have better lives.
 
I just don't want you to assume that just because you've heard a rumor that she has a past, that it takes her out of the running.
 
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