How's God's Forgiveness?

[Button]

Okay I'm a newbie in all of this but I do have a pretty good understanding of christianity.

God forgives everything.

Right?

No matter how much you've sinned.

But on some other place or maybe on the same page, it says; God forgives you but true forgiveness only comes when you repent.
Now what does repent mean? Repent means you've been reborn in the holy spirit so I'm thinking there's no chance any of us are being forgiven because who can claim to be reborn in the holy spirit not many.
Jesus did it, although to be fair he was the son of God.
Trained in the gym with his dad and got private lessons; while the rest of us we've got tablets to work with.
So to continue the story, am I supposed to forgive or am I supposed to make it harder for them and earn my forgiveness I've been hearing a lot about forgiving this and that and the other but I can't bring myself to forgive what I know isn't right.
And that's not how god does it either. If anything: he doesn't forgive - he keeps his heart open to forgiveness but lays out the law in what it means to forgive: you show to me, that you're actually sorry, by becoming somebody else.
And you reach me, my generosity consists in leaving the door open for you to pass through it but I won't be leaving it at your doorstep: the higher the better; preferably on mount everest.

 

[for_his_glory]

Crucify the flesh daily would be a bare minimum, wouldn't it? That scripture, Pray Unceasingly has come to mean to me to be a slight more than daily but more like moment by moment. Doesn't that make sense? It sure does to me.

Story: When I was still working I got inspired to invite the Lord to go with me as I head out into the valley of the shadow of earth, work sector Ed. And it was great because I would talk to Him in my work truck between service calls. In His still small voice and He never has manifested yet for me. And driving around all day to 5 to 8 different addresses takes a bit of time so I talked to quite a bit and began hearing Him better. It was quite the acheivement for me to learn how to really hear the Lord's voice. I felt like a spiritual giant at that point. Who else has the Creator of the universe riding shotgun with them?!

Of course He had to let me know the error of my ways very gently, thanks Lord.

So me and the Lord is chatting and then we get to my jobsite. So what's Mr spiritual giant do? He leaves the Lord in the truck, ouch.

I'm in the house and it's a spooky one. Some fancy new high efficiency furnace & A/C system...it does not work for a full cycle. This machine is nothing new to me and it was top shelf equipment brand. But it started being mean to me (Lol). It would not let me discover what the problem is. It kept failing in different ways. Very odd. I get just frustrated enough to begin to pray and as I think that, I remember that...I left Him in the truck. So instead of walking out to get Him I just prayed for Him if He would please come in and help? He came right in and helped me out and I was done in 10 minutes. Praise the Lord.

Out in the truck He said to me, wouldn't it have gone faster if you had invited me in in the beginning? I instantly knew He was right. And I had slighted Him by leaving Him in the truck. Suddenly the guy wasn't a spiritual giant anymore.

WHen we turn from Him to do something of our own accord, and our focus goes off of Him, then...things begin to go wrong at times. We can't figure something out, we are sinking in water then the Lord will come fast when we cry out, Lord save me, I Perish!

The Lord never has told me if my difficulty with that unit was His doing or not, lol. I think maybe. I left my helper behind in the truck, the creator of the universe no less! So maybe He was slightly annoyed at me? No, something else. Make me need Him so I will invite Him in with His only goal is increased conversation with me (us). He just wants the conversation! It worked too because I started inviting Him in with me everywhere. I can't see any of them yet, but I imagine I may just have somewhat of an entourage around me in the spirit? One or two Guardian Angels, The Holy Spirit, The Father and Yeshua...right there with me. Surrounding me with a Divine crowd of beings like you see Trump and all those guys who always have an entourage around them. Well then, that's me too!

I dunno know why many Christians do not believe in this sort of thing. Because they can't see it more than likely. But it is very real. It is more real than only seeing or considering that which can only be seen, in the material world.

But the thing is, (Peter) you have to not take your focus off of the Lord at all. He who sticks closer than a Brother. You can't ignore Him if He is there with you, and He is. The Lord told me that He wants me to even come and ask Him very little questions, that He doesn't mind that one bit..
He just wants fellowship with us, to hang out with us at all times, moment by moment.

Pray unceasingly indeed! Because I guarentee you if you talk to the Lord long enough, He will answer you and turn up the volume in your ear (so to speak) so there is no question about His presence and words speaking. Sometimes on the way to work, I'd ask the Lord if He wanted me to take Him anywhere else and not to work today? And He always told me to go to work, lol.

Sorry I started rambling, lol. But it's true. I still think He was playing games with me from the truck and making it hard for me so I would invite Him in! He's been known have some mischeviousness about Him and a good sense of humor. He told me that He never stops talking to people. But most can not hear Him. He likened it to tuning in a radio to the right frequency, in spirit.

It's a spirit of relationship. No big crises to pray about? Everything ok for the moment? Make small talk with Him, He loves it. It's what people do in a relationship.
I'll stop now, sorry. Lol.

Amen my brother, God is with us everywhere we go, but it's up to us to Spiritually see Him.

1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Edward]

Crucify the flesh daily would be a bare minimum, wouldn't it? That scripture, Pray Unceasingly has come to mean to me to be a slight more than daily but more like moment by moment. Doesn't that make sense? It sure does to me.

Story: When I was still working I got inspired to invite the Lord to go with me as I head out into the valley of the shadow of earth, work sector Ed. And it was great because I would talk to Him in my work truck between service calls. In His still small voice and He never has manifested yet for me. And driving around all day to 5 to 8 different addresses takes a bit of time so I talked to quite a bit and began hearing Him better. It was quite the acheivement for me to learn how to really hear the Lord's voice. I felt like a spiritual giant at that point. Who else has the Creator of the universe riding shotgun with them?!

Of course He had to let me know the error of my ways very gently, thanks Lord.

So me and the Lord is chatting and then we get to my jobsite. So what's Mr spiritual giant do? He leaves the Lord in the truck, ouch.

I'm in the house and it's a spooky one. Some fancy new high efficiency furnace & A/C system...it does not work for a full cycle. This machine is nothing new to me and it was top shelf equipment brand. But it started being mean to me (Lol). It would not let me discover what the problem is. It kept failing in different ways. Very odd. I get just frustrated enough to begin to pray and as I think that, I remember that...I left Him in the truck. So instead of walking out to get Him I just prayed for Him if He would please come in and help? He came right in and helped me out and I was done in 10 minutes. Praise the Lord.

Out in the truck He said to me, wouldn't it have gone faster if you had invited me in in the beginning? I instantly knew He was right. And I had slighted Him by leaving Him in the truck. Suddenly the guy wasn't a spiritual giant anymore.

WHen we turn from Him to do something of our own accord, and our focus goes off of Him, then...things begin to go wrong at times. We can't figure something out, we are sinking in water then the Lord will come fast when we cry out, Lord save me, I Perish!

The Lord never has told me if my difficulty with that unit was His doing or not, lol. I think maybe. I left my helper behind in the truck, the creator of the universe no less! So maybe He was slightly annoyed at me? No, something else. Make me need Him so I will invite Him in with His only goal is increased conversation with me (us). He just wants the conversation! It worked too because I started inviting Him in with me everywhere. I can't see any of them yet, but I imagine I may just have somewhat of an entourage around me in the spirit? One or two Guardian Angels, The Holy Spirit, The Father and Yeshua...right there with me. Surrounding me with a Divine crowd of beings like you see Trump and all those guys who always have an entourage around them. Well then, that's me too!

I dunno know why many Christians do not believe in this sort of thing. Because they can't see it more than likely. But it is very real. It is more real than only seeing or considering that which can only be seen, in the material world.

But the thing is, (Peter) you have to not take your focus off of the Lord at all. He who sticks closer than a Brother. You can't ignore Him if He is there with you, and He is. The Lord told me that He wants me to even come and ask Him very little questions, that He doesn't mind that one bit..
He just wants fellowship with us, to hang out with us at all times, moment by moment.

Pray unceasingly indeed! Because I guarentee you if you talk to the Lord long enough, He will answer you and turn up the volume in your ear (so to speak) so there is no question about His presence and words speaking. Sometimes on the way to work, I'd ask the Lord if He wanted me to take Him anywhere else and not to work today? And He always told me to go to work, lol.

Sorry I started rambling, lol. But it's true. I still think He was playing games with me from the truck and making it hard for me so I would invite Him in! He's been known have some mischeviousness about Him and a good sense of humor. He told me that He never stops talking to people. But most can not hear Him. He likened it to tuning in a radio to the right frequency, in spirit.

It's a spirit of relationship. No big crises to pray about? Everything ok for the moment? Make small talk with Him, He loves it. It's what people do in a relationship.
I'll stop now, sorry. Lol.

13 Paragraphs! Man oh man. Sometimes I get on a roll, lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

@for_his_glory quoted what Peter said they needed to do and that was not his answer, although popular as it is fairly vague and benign usually defined as saying particular words, that’s it. The closer description is “repent, ask forgiveness of God and man as necessary for your wrong and surrender.” The church has quite a few unsurrendered believers as a result of simply “accepting.”

Making confession with your mouth as you believe in your heart is what is meant by accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. The same with the word believe is the same as accepting, John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10.

Here are some more verbs that mean accept: receive, welcome, take, get, gain, trust, and credit.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Making confession with your mouth as you believe in your heart is what is meant by accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. The same with the word believe is the same as accepting, John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10.

“Accepting” is, however, the master role in the relationship. The one who accepts is in the higher position. The boss accepts a suggestion. The employee submits to a suggestion. Jesus is lower to the one who essentially condescends to grant him entry. This wording belays humility. It is an unfortunate choice. An atheist asked me last week if God could help her. I told her she’d have to surrender first. He isn’t the servant. So no one preaching the gospel told people to “accept” Jesus. They were told to repent and submit to being baptized and follow. They had to surrender.

Here are some more verbs that mean accept: receive, welcome, take, get, gain, trust, and credit.

All place the subject in the elevated position, the master role or controlling role. Better words are: surrender, submit, follow, obey, ask, give, thank. These are done by the servant.

 

[Who Me]

Do you mean being born again?

Repentance is not being born again. It is being sorry for ones actions etc and being willing to change.

 

[Tenchi]

Okay I'm a newbie in all of this but I do have a pretty good understanding of christianity.

God forgives everything.

Oh? Does God forgive unrepentant, willful sin that is not confessed and forsaken? Nope. God does not forgive us of the sin for which we do not seek forgiveness, nor does He extend forgiveness to those who withhold their forgiveness from others.

Hebrews 10:26-31 (NASB)
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Romans 2:4-10 (NASB)
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Proverbs 29:1 (NASB)
1 A man who hardens his neck after much reproof Will suddenly be broken beyond remedy.

John 3:36 (NASB)
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Matthew 6:14-15 (NASB)
14 "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Matthew 18:32-35 (NASB)
32 "Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

No matter how much you've sinned.

It's a sin to refuse God's mercy and grace held out to all sinners in the Person of Christ. If one does not repent of this sin and receive Christ as one's Savior and Lord, God's forgiveness is withheld.

No sinner who comes to God through Christ has sin greater than God's grace.

Romans 5:19-21 (NASB)
19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But on some other place or maybe on the same page, it says; God forgives you but true forgiveness only comes when you repent.
Now what does repent mean? Repent means you've been reborn in the holy spirit so I'm thinking there's no chance any of us are being forgiven because who can claim to be reborn in the holy spirit not many.

Repentance is a change of mind, an alteration of your beliefs and thinking, that provokes corresponding alterations in your conduct.

Being forgiven by God and born-again by the Holy Spirit are the consequences of repentance, not repentance itself.

So to continue the story, am I supposed to forgive or am I supposed to make it harder for them and earn my forgiveness I've been hearing a lot about forgiving this and that and the other but I can't bring myself to forgive what I know isn't right.

You aren't God. He extends a kind of forgiveness to all in a way that you can't - and shouldn't. You forgive those who have sinned against you, not the sin of some murderer you hear about on the news, or the sin of some evil Hollywood pervert, or whatever. God's sphere of forgiveness is far broader than yours, extending to all sinners everywhere who have sinned against Him, ultimately, every time they've done what is evil. And God's forgiveness is of a kind that fully expiates sin, that is given because the payment for sin has already been made through the perfect atonement of Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:10; Hebrews 10:10-12) In contrast, your forgiveness operates in the small sphere of your living, extended even to those who don't realize they've offended you. The person driving dangerously who cuts you off in traffic may be acting in a way you think isn't right, but harboring ill-will and resentment toward them, perhaps cursing at them as they speed away recklessly from you in their car, makes you guilty of sin, too. The person who coldly ignores you at work, or maybe derides you in front of your fellow employees, has not done what is right, but you commit your own sin when you respond to such treatment with anger and malice.

Ephesians 4:31-32 (NASB)
31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

And that's not how god does it either. If anything: he doesn't forgive - he keeps his heart open to forgiveness but lays out the law in what it means to forgive: you show to me, that you're actually sorry, by becoming somebody else.

No, brother, this isn't so. You've got things exactly the reverse of what they should be. The Gospel reveals that we are not able to "be somebody else" in a way that satisfies God. His standard for accepting us is His own holy perfection to which none of us can ever measure up. Jesus said,

Matthew 5:48 (NASB)
48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

No one meets this standard. No one can meet this standard by dint of their own right living.

Romans 3:10 (NASB)
10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

Romans 3:23 (NASB)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Paul the apostle wrote that when we're born again, we are so as people who are "without strength" (Romans 5:6-10), as people bound under the power of the World, the Flesh and the devil (Ephesians 2:1-30), as people mired in evil thinking and living (Titus 3:3). God doesn't wait for us to show Him we're sorry by becoming somebody else because He knows we'll never be the "somebody else" He requires. Instead, He draws us to Christ, (John 6:44), gives us repentance to the acknowledging of His truth (2 Timothy 2:25), and convicts us of our sin (John 16:8), so that we might respond positively to the Gospel and be saved. And when we are, God goes to work on us making us who He wants us to be, by His Spirit, transforming us day-by-day into a person in whom Christ is clearly seen.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Philippians 4:13 (NASB)
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

And you reach me, my generosity consists in leaving the door open for you to pass through it but I won't be leaving it at your doorstep: the higher the better; preferably on mount everest.

No, brother! This is absolutely wrong. See above.