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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Mohrb said:... so, when he says "Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know , I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah." ...
You take this to mean that knowing his name doesn't really matter?
Hi Chris
First, was this question directed to me ?
I will answer as if it was, just in case it was directed towards me.
Everything within scripture matters. But at what amount of importance does any paticular part of scripture matter, is questionable.
If God magnified His Word above His name, (which God specified), then His Word is above His name period ! This does not diminish the name of God, it just magnifies His Word above His name.
God wanted the gentiles to know the power of God, more so than he wanted them to know how to spell or pronounce His name. This is obvious when reading the context.
You've used this phrase a few times now. Where do you get this idea? Seeing as how you capitalized "Word" are you talking about the Logos; suggesting that there's a verse that specifies that God magnified Jesus above himself? Or, are we still talking about "his Word" as in "his message? Or, by "his word" are you talking about the bible itself? That the book is more important than the message therein.
"God magnified his word above his name" can be taken a few ways... would you mind explaining exactly what you mean by it and give biblical evidence?
... because to me "Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know , I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah." itself is biblical evidence that by all God's might, humankind SHOULD know that the Father's name is Jehovah... the name Jesus prayed to be sanctified.
Mohrb said:
Hi Chris
Psalm 138:2 - "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth : for thou hast magnified thy Word above all thy name"
The message is much greater than the name of God. Too much emphasis upon his name, and the message is lost.
I explained to you, that God wanted the gentiles to know his name, not by how they spell it or pronounce it. But by the message of His strength. The context proves this to be true.
If we stick with this word "magnified" for just a moment. We read, scriptures like this - Psalm 35:27 & 28 - "Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the Lord be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long" < What is the message here ? His name, or His righteous cause, and the prosperity of his servant, and praise the Lord and His righteousness ?
Acts 10:46 - "heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God"
Acts 2:11 - "we do hear them speak in tongues the wonderful works of God"
The message, which is the Word of God, the logos, is more important than His name.
The head of Christ is God - I Corinth. 11:3
But God did mangnify the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - We are baptized spiritually in the name of Jesus Christ, every knee shall bow at the name of Jesus Christ .
And God gave him a name that is above every name - Philippians 2:9 --- The -- Christ . ( Not Jesus, but -- Christ)
Jesus said that he came in His Father's name.
Mohrb said:
Charles T. Russel did not interpret the prophecy of Daniel 4 as "suggesting that Armageddon would come in 1914", making "arrogant claims." Rather he thought that global troubles culminating in anarchy (which they understood would be associated with the war of “the great day of God the Almightyâ€) would precede that date. (Rev. 16:14) But then, ten years before 1914, the Watch Tower suggested that worldwide turmoil that would result in the annihilating of human institutions would come right after the end of the Gentile Times.
They expected the year 1914 to mark a significant turning point for Jerusalem, since the prophecy had said that ‘Jerusalem would be trodden down’ until the Gentile Times were fulfilled. When they saw 1914 drawing close and yet they had not died as humans and been ‘caught up in the clouds’ to meet the Lord—in harmony with earlier expectations—they earnestly hoped that their change might take place at the end of the Gentile Times.(1 Thess. 4:17, jv pg 135)
This was no different than the apostles thinking that a political "kingdom" was going to be restored to Israel at the time of Jesus resurrection, freeing them from Roman domination.(Acts 1:8) Their expectations were contrary to what the truth was, what the "kingdom" really is, but over time, with Jehovah's holy spirit, was put on the "right track" as to grasping the "kingdom" and Jehovah's time table. These followed closely Jesus words to "keep on the watch"(Matt 24:42), though their thoughts were blurred by Jewish beliefs momentarily, but in time were brought in line with Jehovah's thoughts.
The year 1914 was a turning point in history, with Alex Greenspan, almost 20 years as chairman of U.S Federal Reserve Board (1987-2006), in his 2007 book The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World, noting: "By all contemporaneous accounts, the world prior to 1914 seemed to be moving irreversibly toward higher levels of civility and civilization; human society seemed perfectible. The nineteenth century had brought an end to the wretched slave trade. Dehumanizing violence seemed on the decline. . . . The pace of global invention had advanced throughout the nineteenth century, bringing railroads, the telephone, the electric light, cinema, the motor car, and household conveniences too numerous to mention. Medical science, improved nutrition, and the mass distribution of potable water had elevated life expectancy . . . The sense of the irreversibility of such progress was universal.â€
But . . . “World War I was more devastating to civility and civilization than the physically far more destructive World War II: the earlier conflict destroyed an idea. I cannot erase the thought of those pre-World War I years, when the future of mankind appeared unencumbered and without limit. Today our outlook is starkly different from a century ago but perhaps a bit more consonant with reality."
Thus, 1914 was no ordinary year, but was the year that Jesus received the "kingdom" (Dan 7:13, 14), unseen to human eyes, and is evident from the "sign" that is seen with the outbreak of WWI.(Matt 24:3-14)
These claims are completely untenable. Not only is it a very evident misapplication of Dan. 7:13,14, since that happened about 2010 years ago, but it is also a misapplication of Matt 24:3-14, since wars happened long before 1914 and many have happened since. There is nothing to support any of Russel's claims regarding 1914.nadab said:
Yes, there have been wars before 1914, but 1914 WAS the beginning of the first WORLD war... where it wasn't just a battlefield or two... but the entire world was engaging in mass destruction, which left germany crippled, which lead directly to "World war 2" (much of the world doesn't separate the two wars at all, but consider "the world war" to be one single war). The end of the "World war" is exactly what left Russia in the situation it was in which ended up threatening to end the world in a nuclear winter. The US aided middle-eastern countries fighting against the USSR... which lead directly to the hostility of said middle-eastern countries against the US, which lead directly to the terrorism and further threats thereof... This war we're still fighting.
See, the war beginning in 1914 wasn't like any other war in history. That conflict has been raging for nearly a century, and has resulted in more deaths than any other war, by far.
... now, is there "proof" as to what's happening in the heavenly kingdom? No. I agree, anything people say about what's been happening in heaven is a guess. They may be right, but there's really no good evidence beyond "Well, 1914 must have been pointing to something... so it must have been this happening in heaven"... which I agree isn't a very good argument.
See, the war beginning in 1914 wasn't like any other war in history. That conflict has been raging for nearly a century, and has resulted in more deaths than any other war, by far.
... now, is there "proof" as to what's happening in the heavenly kingdom? No. I agree, anything people say about what's been happening in heaven is a guess. They may be right, but there's really no good evidence beyond "Well, 1914 must have been pointing to something... so it must have been this happening in heaven"... which I agree isn't a very good argument.
Free said:
Most have not discerned the meaning of Matthew 24, whereby Jesus gave features that would identify the "sign" of his invisible "presence."("presence", Greek pa·rou·si´as, Matt 24:3, 27,37 and 39, and not "coming", Greek er·kho´me·non). One of the features is that "nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another."(Matt 24:7) Jesus then says that these are just a "beginning of pangs of distress."(Matt 24:8) War has been existing among people for thousands of years. So what is so special about what Jesus said ?
That for the first time in human history, the entire earth would be involved in war and not just between 2 nations. This one feature alone would be discerned by Jesus true disciples, recognizing that at that time, Jesus invisible "presence" began. That is why Jesus said that concerning those who would discern his "presence", he likened them to "eagles", those with spiritually keen "eyesight".(Matt 24:27, 28) When was the earth, for the first time inebriated in global war ? 1914, with "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom." At that time, an estimated 93 percent of the earth population was eventually involved in World War I.
But why was "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom" so that practically the entire globe was overtaken by WWI ? An event that no human eyes has ever seen occurred in heaven. Revelation 12 describes the ousting of Satan the Devil and his demons upon the establishment of God's kingdom, the foretold "man child".(Rev 12:5, King James Bible) As a result of this ouster, Satan catapulted the earth into a global war, for Revelation 12:12 says that "woe for the earth (stable elements of the earth) and for the sea (restless masses of mankind), because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time."
Daniel 7:13, 14 also provides a picture of that event that was unseen by humans in 1914, but has since felt the result of Satan's unrelenting anger. The "short period of time" seen at Revelation 12 is about to end, and Satan knows all too well that his time is almost up for causing "great troubles" on the earth. This is in harmony with Revelation 6:2-8, whereby the ' rider on the white horse' is given a "crown". This is Jesus Christ receiving the "kingdom." Upon his installation as king, the first thing he did was "clean house", casting Satan and his cohorts out the heavenly realm.(Luke 10:18)
With this happening, Revelation 6:3, 4 says that the rider of a "fiery-colored horse" was "granted to take peace away from the earth (not just a local war, but globally) so that they should slaughter one another; and a great sword was given him." Anyone familiar with history can tell you that WWI was the first time ' peace was taken away from the earth.' Thus, in 1914, God's kingdom was established, unseen or invisible to human eyes, with Satan and his demons being thrown out, but only which the spiritually keen "eagles" are able to discern.(Matt 24:28)
S
Strangelove
Guest
Ok...I'm not gonna read through this entire thread...
I wanted to ask someone...
My sister and her entire family ar JW's.
Can someone please just list all of the false doctrines that they follow so I can debate her when I go to visit...
As simply and plainly as you can please.
Thanks,,,,,,Doc.
I wanted to ask someone...
My sister and her entire family ar JW's.
Can someone please just list all of the false doctrines that they follow so I can debate her when I go to visit...
As simply and plainly as you can please.
Thanks,,,,,,Doc.
This is a nice, concise site for comparing JW doctrine to biblical Christianity side-by-side. More good stuff included on the page. Hope this helps.
Jehovahs Witnesses - False Teachings
I tried pasting a table comparing views, but it didn't apply neatly here.
http://www.dianedew.com/holyspir.htm
Jehovahs Witnesses - False Teachings
I tried pasting a table comparing views, but it didn't apply neatly here.
http://www.dianedew.com/holyspir.htm
S
Strangelove
Guest
Thanks Mike thats exactly what I wanted>>>
This one caught my eye:::
Wow.....Just wow.
Cant wait for my big sis to justify those apples.
My mens group did a two-month study (only meeting every other week) on JW's because someone one guy started working with was a JW. He was senior level, so he wasn't going to use it on her proactively, but in case the subject came up.
A sister's a whole different story. I hope you'll post some things as you have conversations with her.
JW's and Mormons are much more effective in outreach, I believe mainly because it's a hard requirement for them. I would want to evangelize out of personal conviction rather than my church telling me I have to do it.
A sister's a whole different story. I hope you'll post some things as you have conversations with her.
JW's and Mormons are much more effective in outreach, I believe mainly because it's a hard requirement for them. I would want to evangelize out of personal conviction rather than my church telling me I have to do it.